shagar69 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Gammons reports that the yanks are getting closer to getting the johnson deal done. it will supposedly be vazquez and 2 prospects plus cash for johnson. Gammons also reiterated that it woudl be stupid for the dbacks to keep vazquez so look for them to trade him. he mentioned the sox as possilble suitors. Also on a side note, the sox apparently offered PK, Garland, and Anderson for RJ. seems kinda steep to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 That's way too much for Johnson. Let New York have him. Vazquez and two prospects... these better not be the overrated prospects and some actual good ones. In any case, PK,JG,BA >>> JV and 2 Yank prospects. RJ must have said no to Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I'm glad RJ said no to us because he's too big of a gamble with our payroll. KW was about to overpay big time. I'm sorry but Brian Anderson is our future. To give that up for one year of RJ while creating 2 holes in the rotation and dooming us to another 2nd place finish is retarded... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 That's way too much for Johnson. Let New York have him. Vazquez and two prospects... these better not be the overrated prospects and some actual good ones. In any case, PK,JG,BA >>> JV and 2 Yank prospects. RJ must have said no to Chicago. Agreed. The question would then be, is it worth it to send PK to AZ for Vazquez (assuming they'd do it). I say yes, as long as some of the cash comes along with Vazquez to offset his inflated Yankee contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Maybe the Sox can get Vazquez for a lot less from Ari. unlikely though the Sox get any relief on Vazquez' money this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Agreed. The question would then be, is it worth it to send PK to AZ for Vazquez (assuming they'd do it). I say yes, as long as some of the cash comes along with Vazquez to offset his inflated Yankee contract. I'd do that as long as minor leaguers were uninvoled, unless they are throw-ins. No Anderson, no Sweeney, no McCarthy, no! I don't know what to think of Vazquez though... he was really dominant in the first half of the season.. I'd like to know why he just fell apart in the second half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Maybe the Sox can get Vazquez for a lot less from Ari. unlikely though the Sox get any relief on Vazquez' money this way. Very true. the only way Vazquez would be a decent pickup is with the Yanks paying a lot of his salary. Ariz. wouldn't pick up much if any. It's hard to see Ariz. giving away $6, 8 mill they get w/ Vazquez to deal him. Though few teams will risk trading for him with his after the 2005 season escape clause. So maybe its not that impossible to get Vazquez and some cash from Ariz, with a PK trade where he signs an extension before the trade is finalized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I got a funny feeling once this RJ deal goes through there will be a lot more deals going on. It seems like everyone is waiting for RJ and the Yanks to do something b4 others really move....except the A's. Just a hunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Very true. the only way Vazquez would be a decent pickup is with the Yanks paying a lot of his salary. Ariz. wouldn't pick up much if any. It's hard to see Ariz. giving away $6, 8 mill they get w/ Vazquez to deal him. Though few teams will risk trading for him with his after the 2005 season escape clause. So maybe its not that impossible to get Vazquez and some cash from Ariz, with a PK trade where he signs an extension before the trade is finalized. Yes. And that's why the Konerko to D-Backs makes sense on the surface. The other issue though is Ariz. really needs pitching. I can see Vazquez coming here but Konerko and let's say Garland is too much. D-Backs would need to throw something else in, and not just some schmuck either. Ozzie likes Vazquez, wouldn't surprise me one bit. We'll have to see how it plays out, and whether another hole is created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Yes. And that's why the Konerko to D-Backs makes sense on the surface. The other issue though is Ariz. really needs pitching. I can see Vazquez coming here but Konerko and let's say Garland is too much. D-Backs would need to throw something else in, and not just some schmuck either. Ozzie likes Vazquez, wouldn't surprise me one bit. We'll have to see how it plays out, and whether another hole is created. Ariz. will be saving cash on RJ [$16 mill] and w/ Sexton. They could and should sign a FA SP to a 3 yr deal. Seeing how you've talked about them wanting and needing to brings fans to the park, they can't fill the roster w/ scrubs. They'll spend some cash and should go the FA route Pk and a midlevel prospect [in the 11-20 range of BA] would likely do it. With Vazquez' escape clause, they can't get much for him. Who will trade SP for a guy who could leave after one yr [most likely only a playoff contender with a few spare parts]. With the D-backs hole at 1B, Vazquez plus some cash for PK + would be very doable and generous for the sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Yes. And that's why the Konerko to D-Backs makes sense on the surface. The other issue though is Ariz. really needs pitching. I can see Vazquez coming here but Konerko and let's say Garland is too much. D-Backs would need to throw something else in, and not just some schmuck either. Ozzie likes Vazquez, wouldn't surprise me one bit. We'll have to see how it plays out, and whether another hole is created. He'd probably be a bit too valuable for PK and JG, but what about Shea Hillenbrand as a throw in? I've liked him for a long time, provides good OBP and batting average, something Crede doesn't do. I'm not too familiar with the Diamondbacks farm system, would they have a 3rd basemen who could fill in? They get rid of JOhnson, 16 mill off the books, add Vazquez, he's due to make 10.5 mill next year. Get rid of Vazquez and Hillenbrand (who I estimate at 3 mill), that's 13.5 mill . Dump this off to Chicago and take on PK (8) and JG (3.4), that's 11.4 and a total savings of 5.6 from the whole deal. It's probably not as much as Arizona would like, what if we could swing a PK, Diaz + Munoz or Grilli + Diaz or whatever? Then they could save about 8 million instead of taking on Jon Garlands. However, I'm sure they'd rather have these one year contracts instead of Vazquez who still has 3 years left and Hillenbrand I don't know what he's signed for. Now would be a good time to have Jon Rauch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 He'd probably be a bit too valuable for PK and JG, but what about Shea Hillenbrand as a throw in? I've liked him for a long time, provides good OBP and batting average, something Crede doesn't do. I'm not too familiar with the Diamondbacks farm system, would they have a 3rd basemen who could fill in? They get rid of JOhnson, 16 mill off the books, add Vazquez, he's due to make 10.5 mill next year. Get rid of Vazquez and Hillenbrand (who I estimate at 3 mill), that's 13.5 mill . Dump this off to Chicago and take on PK (8) and JG (3.4), that's 11.4 and a total savings of 5.6 from the whole deal. It's probably not as much as Arizona would like, what if we could swing a PK, Diaz + Munoz or Grilli + Diaz or whatever? Now would be a good time to have Jon Rauch. I would not mind shea hillenbrand at all for the reasons you mentioned. But i doubt they deal him because i see him playing first base for them next year. Also they have chad tracy that they are very high on. In 485 at-bats he hit .285 with a .343 obp, left handed also which is always nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I would do Konerko for JV straight up but I wouldn't give them Garland as well. The problem is, AZ wants pitching badly so I'm inclined to think if they turn around and trade JV, they'd want pitching in return. But there could be other moves pending for them, i.e. free agents, other trades, etc. which may allow them to move Vazquez for a needed position player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I would do Konerko for JV straight up but I wouldn't give them Garland as well. The problem is, AZ wants pitching badly so I'm inclined to think if they turn around and trade JV, they'd want pitching in return. But there could be other moves pending for them, i.e. free agents, other trades, etc. which may allow them to move Vazquez for a needed position player. But the teams that would want JV, contenders, wouldn't have pitching to burn. Ariz, has so many holes, if they could fill a big one [1B] that should be good enough. Right now JV is a one yr rental. He can be a FA after 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I would not mind shea hillenbrand at all for the reasons you mentioned. But i doubt they deal him because i see him playing first base for them next year. Also they have chad tracy that they are very high on. In 485 at-bats he hit .285 with a .343 obp, left handed also which is always nice. Then do it! They need a first basemen, deal them Konerko, get Shea H. and they have Tracy to play 3rd base. Throw them Garland or some crappy AAA pitching prospects and see what goes on from there. It makes sense. Arizona doesn't want to take on Vazquezs contract but they are realizing it is the best they will get since RJ said no to the Sox. (Zona must be hating that no trade clause) Arizona wants a first basemen. Arizona has two third basemen. We want another pitcher with AT LEAST upside. Vazquez has plenty of it. The only problem here is that we would still have Crede, and I doubt Arizona wants him, seeing as they have both Tracy and Hillenbrand. But still, Hillenbrand would be a HELL of an upgrade over Crede, although I'm not sure how he is defensively. He put up 310/348/15/80, I could see those homers climbing to 20 due to the Cell and even some higher RBI totals. Hillenbrand could really have a great season for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagar69 Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 I would do Konerko for JV straight up but I wouldn't give them Garland as well. The problem is, AZ wants pitching badly so I'm inclined to think if they turn around and trade JV, they'd want pitching in return. But there could be other moves pending for them, i.e. free agents, other trades, etc. which may allow them to move Vazquez for a needed position player. agreed. PK for JV is a good deal for us. But adding in garland is stupid b/c it again creates another hole in the rotation. I wouldnt mind giving them a diaz or cotts or munoz tho instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I say screw Johnson and Vazquez. We should try to pick up one of the big 3 from Oakland cause they are younger and cheaper or pickup a free agent so we don't have to give up any offense or prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Hopefully Kenny wouldn't overpay HALF as much for Vazquez as that offer for Randy. I know, I know...its Randy Johnson, but Paulie, s***head and Anderson is unbelievable, making it painfully clear that Randy said no. I have no proof...but raises an eyebrow doesn't it? Anyone else not big on Vazquez? Dude was not consistent in the AL. Yes, he has great stuff, but still a question mark in my opinion and the last thing the Sox need in the rotation is yet another question mark. Let me check his numbers, maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 He's durable. At least up until now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Then do it! They need a first basemen, deal them Konerko, get Shea H. and they have Tracy to play 3rd base. Throw them Garland or some crappy AAA pitching prospects and see what goes on from there. It makes sense. Arizona doesn't want to take on Vazquezs contract but they are realizing it is the best they will get since RJ said no to the Sox. (Zona must be hating that no trade clause) Arizona wants a first basemen. Arizona has two third basemen. We want another pitcher with AT LEAST upside. Vazquez has plenty of it. The only problem here is that we would still have Crede, and I doubt Arizona wants him, seeing as they have both Tracy and Hillenbrand. But still, Hillenbrand would be a HELL of an upgrade over Crede, although I'm not sure how he is defensively. He put up 310/348/15/80, I could see those homers climbing to 20 due to the Cell and even some higher RBI totals. Hillenbrand could really have a great season for us. While they want to upgrade hillenbrand is a fine first baseman. I agree that he would only get better offensively here. I can possibly see his obp reach into the .360 range along with 25 homeruns. He is a major upgrade over crede, better in every single major offensive category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Is anyone else as pissed as I am that KW almost managed to give away our future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Is anyone else as pissed as I am that KW almost managed to give away our future. Relax. How do you know? It's only rumors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 The thing I do find interesting is that didn't KW give up Jeremy Reed because he said Anderson is the perfect replacement for him and then KW wanted to trade Anderson for RJ....kinda odd me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Hopefully Kenny wouldn't overpay HALF as much for Vazquez as that offer for Randy. I know, I know...its Randy Johnson, but Paulie, s***head and Anderson is unbelievable, making it painfully clear that Randy said no. I have no proof...but raises an eyebrow doesn't it? Anyone else not big on Vazquez? Dude was not consistent in the AL. Yes, he has great stuff, but still a question mark in my opinion and the last thing the Sox need in the rotation is yet another question mark. Let me check his numbers, maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. Five something era he would have with his 0.85 g/f ratio. :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Five something era he would have with his 0.85 g/f ratio. :puke My sentiments exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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