Palehosefan Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 There has been alot of talk about Zook taking over at East Carolina. They are very lax academically, and have been decent in the past, but other than that, I don't know why. Urban Meyer is a great coach, he's the leader of the "new cool thing" in college football, which is the offensive style that Utah, Texas Tech, Bowling Green, Louisville etc play. You will see alot of other teams mimic that style in the near future. Urban could absolutely dominate with Florida's talent or the talent ND could bring in. Meyer and Bobby Petrino of Louisville are the two hot head coaching names right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Meyer is one of the most talked about coaches in the NCAA. Yes, people seriously did know who he was. As for the Irish: I think they dropped the ball with this one. We know you're the most competitive and storied schools in the NCAA, but never before has a coach been fired without good cause at that school. I was expecting at least one more year with Tyrone. Even if he wasn't putting w's in the books, Tyrone was great for that school. Everyone knowns recruiting is down in South Bend, but they just took 5 steps backwards. A long and losing road is up ahead for the Irish. I disagree. The right coach comes in there and those 5 steps backward become leaps forward in a hurry. Meyer was an assistant at ND for 5 years, so his name is the first to surface. If something doesn't work there, don't think they won't go after Petrino or don't discount Jon Gruden this time around. Notre Dame is still a cream of the crop job and will be back to at least the 8-3, 7-4 level within two years. Book it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I disagree. The right coach comes in there and those 5 steps backward become leaps forward in a hurry. Meyer was an assistant at ND for 5 years, so his name is the first to surface. If something doesn't work there, don't think they won't go after Petrino or don't discount Jon Gruden this time around. Notre Dame is still a cream of the crop job and will be back to at least the 8-3, 7-4 level within two years. Book it. Petrino isn't going anywhere, U of L will be top 5 next year and he is about to get a huge contract. And the more Trev Albert pumps him up on ESPN, the larger of a check Jurich is going to be writing for Bobby P. I can't think of a better football/basketball combo in the country right now than the Ville... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Notre Dame is still a cream of the crop job and will be back to at least the 8-3, 7-4 level within two years. Book it. Not a chance in hell. I'm a Irish fan...but not a chance in hell. That school's football program is on the fast track to becoming the next "Nebraska" (and I'm also a huge Husker fan). With recruiting down as far as it is and the Notre Dame brass' refusal to lower academic standards (whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is entirely up to you) a long, losing road is up ahead. Bradey Quinn or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bones Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I would love to see either Zook or Willingham at Illinois. Anyone that is a big name would be good for that program. I don't understand how school's can fire coach's so quickly. How can you tell after 3 years what the guy has done if his juniors and seniors are still recruits from the previous coach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I hate ND but this is the University of college football and if you can't win then you don't deserve the job. That said, Ty could turn around illinois in about 2-3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I would love to see either Zook or Willingham at Illinois. Anyone that is a big name would be good for that program. I don't understand how school's can fire coach's so quickly. How can you tell after 3 years what the guy has done if his juniors and seniors are still recruits from the previous coach? Great point. Mike Davis is still playing with a Bobby Knight player in Sean Kline, he committed well before he was fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AssHatSoxFan Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 I would love to see either Zook or Willingham at Illinois. Anyone that is a big name would be good for that program. I don't understand how school's can fire coach's so quickly. How can you tell after 3 years what the guy has done if his juniors and seniors are still recruits from the previous coach? after all it took 8 years for ron turner to be fired and he started off badly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Great point. Mike Davis is still playing with a Bobby Knight player in Sean Kline, he committed well before he was fired. This is Davis's last stand, and judging from the other night against Western Illinois, he's gonna be done for. Tomorrow night will be ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Schools expect instant impact now. Heck Florida fired Zook after solid years and great recruiting classes. They are expecting national championships every year, its just ridiculous. Similar with Texas fans and Mack Brown, he's won 10 or more games every year pretty much and its still not good enough, nevermind how far the program had fallen before Mack arrived and pulled in top 5 recruiting class after top 5 recruiting class. Also, ND can make a comeback even with the strict academic issues. UNC deals with similar problems, never can get Juco's in, have had one Juco in about the last 10 years and it was a major major struggle to get him in. Meanwhile, other programs plug Juco's in all the time like USC, OU, KState, Cal, NC State etc. Its not really fair, but you can overcome it, especially at ND with the right coach. Meyer or Davis would be the right guy in my opinion. UNC pulled in 2 top 20 classes without Juco's and without lower academic kids. Its tough, but it can happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 This is Davis's last stand, and judging from the other night against Western Illinois, he's gonna be done for. Tomorrow night will be ugly. This is definitely his make or break year, no question there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I'd be pretty happy if IU had some Willingham or Ron Zook-like years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bones Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Schools expect instant impact now. Heck Florida fired Zook after solid years and great recruiting classes. They are expecting national championships every year, its just ridiculous. Similar with Texas fans and Mack Brown, he's won 10 or more games every year pretty much and its still not good enough, nevermind how far the program had fallen before Mack arrived and pulled in top 5 recruiting class after top 5 recruiting class. Also, ND can make a comeback even with the strict academic issues. UNC deals with similar problems, never can get Juco's in, have had one Juco in about the last 10 years and it was a major major struggle to get him in. Meanwhile, other programs plug Juco's in all the time like USC, OU, KState, Cal, NC State etc. Its not really fair, but you can overcome it, especially at ND with the right coach. Meyer or Davis would be the right guy in my opinion. UNC pulled in 2 top 20 classes without Juco's and without lower academic kids. Its tough, but it can happen. Exactly, I think those big schools expect too much right away, especially when you have about 3 or 4 team per conference that think they should be title contenders every year. Look at Nebraska, said something like "they wouldn't tolerate an 8-3 season" and now they're not even in a bowl. College football isn't going to have the few dominant teams like they had in the past, so teams are going to either have to accept a 8-3 or 7-4 season every few years or keep firing and hiring coaches hoping to find gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue129 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I completely agree with those saying he should be given a chance with his players, not Davie's. Bob Davie left that place in shambles. Willingham was just starting to pick recruiting back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Exactly, I think those big schools expect too much right away, especially when you have about 3 or 4 team per conference that think they should be title contenders every year. Look at Nebraska, said something like "they wouldn't tolerate an 8-3 season" and now they're not even in a bowl. College football isn't going to have the few dominant teams like they had in the past, so teams are going to either have to accept a 8-3 or 7-4 season every few years or keep firing and hiring coaches hoping to find gold. Unfortunately money dictates the game be different now. When coaches stop getting $1.5 - $2 million a year contracts, then perhaps some of that pressure to win will subside. Until then, the coaches want big dollars, they campaign for the best facilities known to mankind and they get fired if they don't win. That is how things are today, like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I would love to see either Zook or Willingham at Illinois. Anyone that is a big name would be good for that program. I don't understand how school's can fire coach's so quickly. How can you tell after 3 years what the guy has done if his juniors and seniors are still recruits from the previous coach? Bones, in Notre Dame's case it was clearly a case of how it was done. Notre Dame had lost 5 games by 26 points or more under Willingham. Bob Davie lost one game that bad in his time under the golden dome. Holtz never lost by that much. Dan Devine lost by that much once. Recruiting had not been going well, and the losses were piling and they weren't competitive in those losses. IF ND beats BC and/or Pitt and doesn't get blown out by USC, then he probably keeps his job. But there was no indication that things were really looking up. They kept ending up in the same position every year, barely being bowl eligible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Not a chance in hell. I'm a Irish fan...but not a chance in hell. That school's football program is on the fast track to becoming the next "Nebraska" (and I'm also a huge Husker fan). With recruiting down as far as it is and the Notre Dame brass' refusal to lower academic standards (whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is entirely up to you) a long, losing road is up ahead. Bradey Quinn or not. I have to disagree. A new coach, and more importantly, a new scheme can make a huge difference, especially in the college game. I have a feeling that Meyer is all but a guarantee for the ND job. In that case, look at what this guy has done for BG and Utah in his 1st year. Two of the biggest turnarounds. Furthermore, it isn't as if the Irish don't have any talent. In fact they are returning almost all of their offensive players(that showed drastic improvement as the season has gone on), and with Meyer's deadly offensive scheme it could be a perfect match. Meyer has turned so-so players into good players(even Heisman canidates) at BG and Utah, so whats going to happen if he gets good/great players? I think the Irish will win 7-8 games next year with Meyer(assuming he is the choice). The one concern that I have is in regards to recruiting. Meyer has never recruited(as a head coach) at a big time university. It is one thing to recruit for BG or Utah, but ND is another monster. Furthermore, BG and Utah don't have the academic restrictions that ND have. Recruiting is going to be the long-term question mark and the only way for ND to get back to their dominate ways. In regards to Willingham, I don't think he was given a fair shot. His fluke 1st season put unattainable expectations on him and probably cost him his job. He has shown mild progress(IMO), and deserved 1 more season. Willingham really hasn't recruited as well as expected, and that was a bit of a surprise. It brings up the question, can any coach get the top recruits to ND? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I think the firing was wrong. He deserved to finish out the contract. I really do hope that race did not play into the decision, just ND's growing impatience with their program. My son just received a beautiful certificate signed by Willingham, congratulating my son on earning Eagle Scout. Willingham seemed like a class act and a postive for the University. I expect him to be gobled up by a Div 1 program before the New Year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I'm horrible with words, but some of the guys on ESPN have really expressed some of my thoughts on this. ND is ridiculous for thinking that they can consistently win 9-10 games a year with their academic standards, no acceptance of JUCO players, and the schedule that they play every year. It's just not realistic. There's talks of ND letting down some of the academic stands or accepting JUCO players to be able to contend again; however, why couldn't Willingham be that guy? Willingham made ND a little easier to stomach...f*** them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue129 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 I don't believe the 'lower your academic standards' theory. They've never had a problem in the past recruiting VERY good players w/the standards in place. I think there are other issues there when it comes to recruiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Wow, Urban Meyer is a really popular guy all of the sudden. Did anyone seriously know who this guy was before this year? I am just asking because I am casual NCAA football fan at best, and the first I heard of him was connected to Zook's job. I heard that name a few years ago. he is an up and coming head coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 I don't believe the 'lower your academic standards' theory. They've never had a problem in the past recruiting VERY good players w/the standards in place. I think there are other issues there when it comes to recruiting. Times change. Look at how much they say our generation disrespects the older generations now compared to past generations. I believe it's got to be hurting them now. Stupid/bad analogy, but... Think how much we all use our computers now; our lives have basically become dependant around computers. Imagine taking that away now. It almost seems impossible to us. Past generations probably don't see it that way, because very few of them had to do anything with a cimputer. *********** Things and times change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Everyone knowns recruiting is down in South Bend, but they just took 5 steps backwards. A long and losing road is up ahead for the Irish. I think it will take time for ND to get back to where they were. The main reason, for me, is their academic standards. I actually applaud ND for being so strict. They actually believe in the "student athlete" unlike most major programs that believe in the "athlete student" or more like the "athlete who never has to attend class as long as he is a key player in getting the school a national championship". If ND can build their program the RIGHT way, go for it. But it will take time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 I think it will take time for ND to get back to where they were. The main reason, for me, is their academic standards. I actually applaud ND for being so strict. They actually believe in the "student athlete" unlike most major programs that believe in the "athlete student" or more like the "athlete who never has to attend class as long as he is a key player in getting the school a national championship". If ND can build their program the RIGHT way, go for it. But it will take time. True..It can be done, and I like that. However, it's just very hard to finally get that and keep it. It just seems an education may not even be valued that much anymore. These athletes know if they're good enough, that in a couple years time, they'll be making millions of dollars. Why do all the extra work when you can get easy money by doing less? It's unfortunate, but true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 These athletes know if they're good enough, that in a couple years time, they'll be making millions of dollars. Why do all the extra work when you can get easy money by doing less? It's unfortunate, but true... That is the reason why some believe that going to college just to play a sport and not get an education is just fine. Much like kids like me who go to college to get ready for entering the job world, some athletes go to college to get ready to enter the football job world. I think it is great that we try and watch out for those who are fed bad info and bank everything on a sport only to flop. But, who are we to say what a person should do with their life? People sometimes need to make their own mistakes. You can always go BACk to college to get a real education if you want, but you may only get one shot at a professional sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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