greasywheels121 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 That is the reason why some believe that going to college just to play a sport and not get an education is just fine. Much like kids like me who go to college to get ready for entering the job world, some athletes go to college to get ready to enter the football job world. I think it is great that we try and watch out for those who are fed bad info and bank everything on a sport only to flop. But, who are we to say what a person should do with their life? People sometimes need to make their own mistakes. You can always go BACk to college to get a real education if you want, but you may only get one shot at a professional sport. Oh I agree...I'm the same as you right now, just trying to make my way through college, and hope that there's a job available for me when it's time. I'm not condemning the way the athletes think or the way they get to go through life, but I feel that most of us would do the same if the chance/situation was possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 I'm horrible with words, but some of the guys on ESPN have really expressed some of my thoughts on this. ND is ridiculous for thinking that they can consistently win 9-10 games a year with their academic standards, no acceptance of JUCO players, and the schedule that they play every year. It's just not realistic. There's talks of ND letting down some of the academic stands or accepting JUCO players to be able to contend again; however, why couldn't Willingham be that guy? Willingham made ND a little easier to stomach...f*** them again. Let's keep in mind that Willingham didn't get fired because he didn't win 9-10 games a year. He got fired because Notre Dame was getting embarassed. He got fired because they would show promise by beating Michigan and Tennessee, yet lose to BYU, Pitt and BC. If ND would have been competitive and not gotten blown out so much, and if they would have beaten the teams they should beat (even if that meant less upsets), Willingham would likely still have his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Let's keep in mind that Willingham didn't get fired because he didn't win 9-10 games a year. He got fired because Notre Dame was getting embarassed. He got fired because they would show promise by beating Michigan and Tennessee, yet lose to BYU, Pitt and BC. If ND would have been competitive and not gotten blown out so much, and if they would have beaten the teams they should beat (even if that meant less upsets), Willingham would likely still have his job. All good points. I believe that a college coach needs 4-5 seasons to prove his overall worth. He didn't even recruit any of his upperclassman. Give the guy a chance for at least 4 seasons, although I think 5 seasons is the right number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Outstanding news. Tyrone was a failure at ND, an absolute failure. The recruiting crops continued to get worse and his schemes weren't working. The team was getting blown out and it just wasn't cutting it. I'm not talking about Tyrone the person, no doubt he's a great guy, but he's going to go back to the west coast, pick up a job their and do a good job. Him and Notre Dame didn't gel and he struggled recruiting in the midwest. I'm on the Urban Meyer or Butch Davis bandwagon. Both have outstanding offensive track records and while Urban is an up and comer with ND ties, Butch is a proven college coach who failed in the NFL and has experience recruiting at a big school. Both would be major upgrades, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotop Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Wow, what a day. As a current student at ND, I can say first hand that this has been a crazy day on campus (obviously). For awhile, I felt as though Ty was going to get the ax sooner rather than later...comes with the territory around here; everyone expects to win. Many can point to race (which is ridiculous in my mind) or the fact that he only got 3 years compared to Davie and Faust's 5, but the fact of the matter is our program has been embarrassed since Ty lost his first time to Boston College. When you haven't beaten one of your most hated rivals (BC) in 3 years, lost to USC by 31 points in each of those years, and other disappointing loses to teams of lesser talent (see BYU and PITT this year), you have to think you're not in good favor with those who sign the checks. Let's face it, with Willingham the recruiting class this year projected out to be in the 15th overall range, and it still does if ND quickly remedies the situation. Last year's recruiting class was the WORST in ND history (32nd overall), so it's not like Ty was recruiting impact players to turn the program around immediately. Therefore, ND took action....swiftly. This year's coaching crop is extremely talented (Meyer, Tedford, Chow, Petrino, Boise St's Coach (cant remember his name), and even Neuheisel). I most certainly think it's better to act now (because Ty probably would have been fired next year anyway) and get a quailty coach while we can. All signs are pointing to Urban Meyer as the new coach, and I'd be quite happy with Meyer. He's turned two mid-major teams into national contenders (Bowling Green and Utah) and has only lost 1 game at Utah. He has a love for our school and he has experience here (5 years under Lou Holtz as a coordinator). I have a feeling that the reason this all went down was because ND wanted Meyer...bad. They probably have a preliminary deal done with Meyer, because to let go of a great coach like Willingham without a sound plan in place is bonkers. As for the state of the program, it's bleak because our advantages are no longer advantages anymore: -All of NDs games are nationally televised. This used to matter, but now with so much sports coverage, many teams get sufficent coverage by the national media. This is no longer a huge drawing point for the Irish. -11 National Titles, the most in all of college football. This tradition appeals to some, but it seems as though its not nearly as important as it used to be to recruits. Today it's all about who can get me to the pros and other perpheral reasons for going to a school (geography being rather important these days). Whoever the new coach is, he'll many large obstacles to overcome: -The current team lacks impact players at most key positions, most notably cornerback. There really is no quick fix for this and the new coach will have to string together a few great recruiting classes to fix this in the long run. - The schedule is one of, if not the toughest in all of college football. 4 of the first five games for the Irish next year are on the road (most notable road game: week 2 v. michigan), and powerhouse USC is always on the schedule. -Recruiting this year will be severly hindered without a coach. If the process of finding a new coach, or waiting for Meyer until the Fiesta Bowl is over, takes too long the Irish can lose out on many key recruits that could jumpstart the program (Johnathan Stewart to name one). -Academic Standards. Randy Moss, TJ Duckett, Maurice Clarrett, all of these recruits could have and would have come to ND if it weren't for such strict academic standards (if I recall correctly, TJ Duckett didn't want to take calculus...whatever). I doubt the university budges on this one, and it's just something the coach will have to deal with. -Finally, the new landscape of modern college sports has caused each team's fans to expect more and more from an increasingly difficult landscape. With the amount of money tossed around, fans expect excellence year in and year out (take Nebraska for example; they fired Solich after winning 8 games). The ND job is then one of the most stressful and pressure filled jobs in the country. To draw a baseball analogy, it's like resurrecting the Yankees. Anyways, the only thing that is bothering me about this situation is the fact that race is playing an issue in the national media. Granted, they're motivated by ratings and selling papers/magazines, but they're completely slandering a school who if I'm not mistaken was one of the few schools who hired an african-american coach in the first place. Ty's record was ONE game better than Bob Davie's....he just didn't work out here and admistration decided to strike when the iron was hot, end of story. As a member of the student body, I can say that most, if not all of us thought that Tyrone Willingham represented our university as well as anyone could. He's an amazing person and everyone holds him as a person in the highest regard. He just didn't come through for our program, and it was time for a change. We all wish him the best of luck in the future, wherever he coaches next. Sorry for the long post guys, just wanted to give anyone curious an ND perspective. -Fotop P.S.: Meyer is already having an effect on ND recruiting if he does choose to come, according to Tom Lemming. Lemming is stated that now that Ty is fired, Greg Paulus (#2 Qb recruit in the country) is strongly considering ND and there's a chance top QB recruit Josh Portis could drop his committment to Utah and follow Meyer. However, Evan Sharpley (QB committed to ND) is listening to other schools now that Ty is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Iowa has not had a top 25 recruiting class in the last three seasons... All they've done is win 2 big ten titles and go to 3 straight NYD bowls. I don't like the recruiting argument... Zook can recruit... So what? Get your players, coach 'em up and build your program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotop Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Well i was just trying to point out that he didn't recruit well, but he still didn't coach well either. Guys like Zook and Mack Brown get some slack because of their recruiting and Ty was touted as being able to recruit top talent for ND. He didn't live up to that, nor did he win enough games to overcome that. The agrument isn't solely based on recruiting, I was just assuming that everyone could look at the record since the BC loss in the first year and see that he wasn't coach well either, because you could disregard some of that 8-0 start to sheer luck (final drive wins, good fortune with turnovers) and to the fact that those players were recruited by Davie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Days of ND being a power are.............ova :fyou Tarnished Dome 6-5 FOREVER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 George O'leary is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 George O'leary is available. NICE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotop Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Days of ND being a power are.............ova :fyou Tarnished Dome 6-5 FOREVER They said that about Oklahoma too before Stoops got there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Good posts fotop. Speaking of QB recruits, does anyone know about a guy named Ben Olson or something like that? A friend mentioned him to me, but I don't know much about him. Apparently he went to BYU, went on his mission and now has decided not to return to BYU. That's about all I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 He was the top QB recruit in the nation a few years ago I believe. I was suprised to see him end up at BYU. He had amazing numbers coming out, 6'5 200 pounds and ran a 4.65. He's a big very talented lefty, would be a big loss for BYU. Did he say who he was interested in transferring to? I would bet on someone like Arizona with Stoops or ASU since they will have a QB opening, possibly someone even like Cal. He was a west coast guy when he was recruited and I don't see him changing that, but who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 How does Ty to Illinois sound? Just a thought. In my opinion, and I am as liberal as they come, I feel that he wouldn't have even made it this long were ND not hesitant to fire a black coach. Not sure if anyone will agree with me on that but I that's my opinion. I heard Ty Willinghams name mentioned with Washington this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Ty to IU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 I heard Ty Willinghams name mentioned with Washington this morning. I read somewhere that Washington contacted Willingham two weeks ago. Wouldn't that be tampering? Or is is one of those situations where...... some of Washinton's "people" contacted Willingham's "people" and there was never any official contact? Not that ND would care about the tampering at this point, but coming off a somewhat scandolous loss of their previous coach, you would think they would play it a little closer to the vest, so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 I read somewhere that Washington contacted Willingham two weeks ago. Wouldn't that be tampering? Or is is one of those situations where...... some of Washinton's "people" contacted Willingham's "people" and there was never any official contact? Not that ND would care about the tampering at this point, but coming off a somewhat scandolous loss of their previous coach, you would think they would play it a little closer to the vest, so to speak. I'm assuming it was as you described Rex. But he'd be an oustanding fit for Washington. They need a good image guy who has experience recruiting on the West Coast. I think Ty and UW would be a great fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Jon Gruden has said he isn't interested in the Notre Dame job. They also said he is supposedly negotiating a new deal that would keep him in TB for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 I heard Ty Willinghams name mentioned with Washington this morning. He's going to be mentioned for about every head job this off season. The one stat I was reminded of that tempers my belief he should have had more time 13-15 after the 8-0 start when everything was new. After they got use to him and his systems and techniques 13-15?? I am starting to think they had enough reason to pull the plug, especially if Urban is locked and loaded for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 He's going to be mentioned for about every head job this off season. The one stat I was reminded of that tempers my belief he should have had more time 13-15 after the 8-0 start when everything was new. After they got use to him and his systems and techniques 13-15?? I am starting to think they had enough reason to pull the plug, especially if Urban is locked and loaded for the job. I agree, if they already had a deal worked out for Urban Meyer, then look out, cause Meyer will land some recruits. He's a stud up and comer and hopefully can help bring ND back into the National Championship picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 I agree, if they already had a deal worked out for Urban Meyer, then look out, cause Meyer will land some recruits. He's a stud up and comer and hopefully can help bring ND back into the National Championship picture. Recruiting may be a problem this off season no matter who they bring in. If you've developed a relationship with a recruiter and now he's been fired, it's way to easy to dismiss that school and take a different choice. Especially in this case where almost any ND recruit would have his choice of dozens of other top schools. Imagine being able to turn down ND and sign with USC, Oklahoma, Florida, UI, OSU, etc. Not a dog in the bunch. Unless you were looking for that Catholic education. Then I guess St. Norbert's would be your choice. They do have a nice hockey program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Recruiting may be a problem this off season no matter who they bring in. If you've developed a relationship with a recruiter and now he's been fired, it's way to easy to dismiss that school and take a different choice. Especially in this case where almost any ND recruit would have his choice of dozens of other top schools. Imagine being able to turn down ND and sign with USC, Oklahoma, Florida, UI, OSU, etc. Not a dog in the bunch. Unless you were looking for that Catholic education. Then I guess St. Norbert's would be your choice. They do have a nice hockey program. On the flip side, there may be plenty of players who were not initially looking at Notre Dame that may enter onto the radar screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 On the flip side, there may be plenty of players who were not initially looking at Notre Dame that may enter onto the radar screen. I know someone (think it was palehosefan) posted some links of some of the top qb recruits in the country immediately becoming interested in ND, this is upon speculation that Meyer becomes their next head coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 I know someone (think it was palehosefan) posted some links of some of the top qb recruits in the country immediately becoming interested in ND, this is upon speculation that Meyer becomes their next head coach. I must have missed those links....... would love to see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 It wasn't me, but I can provide some also, just give me a sec. I can't find specific links, but I do know top 10 QB's Greg Paulus, and Josh Portis would be VERY interested in attending ND with Meyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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