beck72 Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Seeing from the hot stove thread, Ozzie mentioned the Sox going after Renteria. With a supposed 4 yr, $32 mill backloaded deal offered by STL, and few teams w/ that big of interest left, the Sox could be one of the top teams left to land him for prob. under $40 mill, 4yrs. If Edgar came on board [i know it's a big if, but Ozzie seems to definitely want a veteran leader at SS], a trade would have to happen. First, Harris would probably be traded. Uribe would be the starting 2B. Harris has value now, and would have none being on the bench, pinch running, etc. Wilson Valdez wouldn't be bad for a UTL role. Or, signing Robbie Alomar to the league minimum might not be too crazy. His ability to hit LH would fit in. A team like TB needs a 2b, and a package starting w/ Willie, Borchard and an arm [or Willie and Gload] could probably get Danys Baez for the bullpen. Baez will make $3.5 mill in 2005. TB could use salary relief, and if they could get 2, 3 guys for their 25 man roster for 1 arm [they have a possible closer in Jesus Colome], they might do it. another option is a Harris + deal for Jose Cruz. Jr. , though I'm not that impressed by Cruz. Baez is the RH setup guy that would do well for the sox. He could close games if Shingo gets hurt, or fails. He can go more than 1 inning, and pitch a few days in a row, as he was a SP, and has done it in the past] And he's only 27, and the sox would have an option yr in 2006 for $4mill. While TB is one team that could use a 2B, I haven't thought of other teams that could want Willie. Thoughts? I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Robbie Alomar cannot hit lefties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 3, 2004 Author Share Posted December 3, 2004 Robbie Alomar cannot hit lefties. Robbie would bat vs. RHP, him batting LH. With Renteria and Uribe RH hitters, a LH batter for UTL would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 given with what's been going on in the news i can't help but be concerned about any player who's stats took a dip last year (sosa, giambi, brown, renteria?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 3, 2004 Author Share Posted December 3, 2004 given with what's been going on in the news i can't help but be concerned about any player who's stats took a dip last year (sosa, giambi, brown, renteria?) You putting Renteria in the roid category?! Please, the guy is about defense and contact, not power. And his numbers didn't dip that much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 You putting Renteria in the roid category?! Please, the guy is about defense and contact, not power. And his numbers didn't dip that much i didn't say he was using, but the idea crosses my mind when his OPS+ goes from 130 to 90. (vizquel's was 95 last year) if you think last year was a "normal" year for him, then I don't think he's worth $10 mil/per. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Robbie would bat vs. RHP, him batting LH. With Renteria and Uribe RH hitters, a LH batter for UTL would be nice. I said that wrong. What it should have read was "Robbie can't hit lefty." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 given with what's been going on in the news i can't help but be concerned about any player who's stats took a dip last year (sosa, giambi, brown, renteria?) I would have to correlate that to players who also took a dip in size/weight to correspond with their respective drop off in numbers. If a player had both of those factors, I would assume guilt if I were a GM right now. It might not be right, but you sure as hell can't trust anyone right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Umm... Who leads off then? I would love to see Renteria here, more than Cabera But, why trade Harris? Why not trade Crede, and make Uribe the 3b? That still makes Harris the lead-off hitter :puke , unless we can make that trade for SPod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Renteria would be great, but I think we end up with our hearts broken again. Someone with more money will up the ante too high, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Alright, let me just throw something out there. If we trade Konerko and Gload is at 1st...what about batting Gload leadoff? I know, he doesn't have a ton of speed, but he's above average and last year had a .375 OBP. And he's a contact hitter. Not the quintessential lead off man, but he'll get on base for the big boppers, whoever they may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 I homestly wouldn't have a problem with that. IIRC, his speed isn't all that bad. What about Rowand, also IIRC, he did well in the lead-off spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Alright, let me just throw something out there. If we trade Konerko and Gload is at 1st...what about batting Gload leadoff? I know, he doesn't have a ton of speed, but he's above average and last year had a .375 OBP. And he's a contact hitter. Not the quintessential lead off man, but he'll get on base for the big boppers, whoever they may be. The White Sox will not sign Edgar Renteria so all of the speculation is moot. And a big NO on Gload batting leadoff. All of his '04 stats are, for the most part, misleading. Those numbers will go down if he's allowed to play an entire season (> 500 AB's) IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 I homestly wouldn't have a problem with that. IIRC, his speed isn't all that bad. What about Rowand, also IIRC, he did well in the lead-off spot. I'd prefer Rowand to leadoff instead of Harris although I know Harris will be in the leadoff role for '05. With the probable Sox line-up, Rowand is better served further down in the order. In a perfect world, Harris would be batting 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 I'd prefer Rowand to leadoff instead of Harris although I know Harris will be in the leadoff role for '05. With the probable Sox line-up, Rowand is better served further down in the order. In a perfect world, Harris would be batting 9th. Agreed, Willie would be a great 9 hitter. Hopefully KW gets The Sox a bonafide lead-off man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 I'd prefer Rowand to leadoff instead of Harris although I know Harris will be in the leadoff role for '05. With the probable Sox line-up, Rowand is better served further down in the order. In a perfect world, Harris would be batting 9th. ANd have Scott Pod as the lead-off hitter. WE need to aquire him, would solve allot of our problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Beck, although you and I have been thinking along the same lines, I invison another route Kenny may go. Sign two free agents in the off-season. One at shortstop: Renteria, Nomar, and the other at SP: Jaret Wright, Valdez. So...after those two aquisitons we have two pressing needs taken care of. Now, after those two are signed, I could see Kenny then trading Paulie to take care of our bullpen needs and possibly our leadoff/utlity guy need. I'm not going to try to create one of those X-box lineups; A lot of posters here have these long elaborite plans that are conditional to a couple essential moves. Mine is a little different. C- Davis/Burke (Sorry fellas) 1B- Gload 2B- Uribe SS- Renteria or Nomar (In that order) 3B- Crede LF- Lee CF- Rowand/utlity leadoff guy via Paulie trade RF- Jurassic/Rowand/Escobar Rotation 1. Buehrle 2. Garcia 3. Wright 4. Contreras 5. Garland Bullpen 1. Shingo 2. New, big-name aquisition via Paulie trade 3. Marte 4. Cotts 5. Adkins 6. Possibly a lower level free agent What do you think. That is as close to my ideal, yet realistic plan as its going to get. I'm really, really interested to see what you guys have to say about that. That's the first time I attempted one of these mock off-seasons. Please let me know what ya think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Alright, let me just throw something out there. If we trade Konerko and Gload is at 1st...what about batting Gload leadoff? I know, he doesn't have a ton of speed, but he's above average and last year had a .375 OBP. And he's a contact hitter. Not the quintessential lead off man, but he'll get on base for the big boppers, whoever they may be. I think if he keeps up his obp, this is a good idea. I'd much rather have a high obp guy with so-so speed than a moderate obp guy with plus speed at the top of the lineup. Heck, if Jamie Burke keeps hitting like he did last season (unlikely, I admit), I would like to see him near the top of the lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 ANd have Scott Pod as the lead-off hitter. WE need to aquire him, would solve allot of our problems. Alright, already. We know you like Podsednik. But, what will you give up for him and do you think he's going to get back to 2003 stats? As for Willie as leadoff, hey, with an offseason of Tim Raines, maybe things will click. He's young and can still improve. Plus, he's the best defensive 2b we've had since Cora. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 3, 2004 Author Share Posted December 3, 2004 Beck, although you and I have been thinking along the same lines, I invison another route Kenny may go. Sign two free agents in the off-season. One at shortstop: Renteria, Nomar, and the other at SP: Jaret Wright, Valdez. So...after those two aquisitons we have two pressing needs taken care of. Now, after those two are signed, I could see Kenny then trading Paulie to take care of our bullpen needs and possibly our leadoff/utlity guy need. Yeah, I've tried to steer clear of 2005 lineups myself. It's hard to say who the sox will get/ trade/ steal until it all plays out. It just seems like the sox want to get a position player for the top of the order who also has some leadership qualities [1st vizquel, possibly Renteria, Nomar]. If they get a SS like Renteria for a few years, then it makes Harris expendable, as Uribe has earned the job at 2B. If a short term guy is acquired [1-2 yrs], then keeping Harris makes sense. But I agree, a key position player and a SP like Wright would fill 2 big holes. Though other holes need to be filled. The sox could trade a guy like PK for a bullpen arm, prospects close to the bigs, or a few lesser players to provide some depth. I've just tried to see who the sox are targetting and why. And jump to conclusions from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 3, 2004 Author Share Posted December 3, 2004 Umm... Who leads off then? I would love to see Renteria here, more than Cabera But, why trade Harris? Why not trade Crede, and make Uribe the 3b? That still makes Harris the lead-off hitter :puke , unless we can make that trade for SPod. If the sox signed Renteria to a long term deal [4 yrs], who should see the bulk of playing time at 2B? [it's not Willie Harris]. Uribe should play everyday. Willie Harris could stay, very likely. But he's a #9 hitter anyway. I just think Harris could bring in talent to fill other holes, such as a bullpen arm. Renteria is a #2 hitter. the sox would still need to bring in someone else [at least to leadoff vs RHP, Rowand could hit vs LHP in a pinch, though my preference would be to bring in someone for CF who can leadoff and move Rowand to RF] The Crede project will continue on in 2005. Did you read the Southtown article? The sox think he's fixable, which he prob. is and shouldn't be moved. Plus Uribe is far better at 2B then 3b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 3, 2004 Author Share Posted December 3, 2004 The White Sox will not sign Edgar Renteria so all of the speculation is moot. The Sox should get a position player who is a "winner", who can provide solid leadership and very good baseball skills. Whether it means signing a guy like Renteria or trading a guy like Carlos Lee to do it, I think the Sox will this offseason. Why? Because Ozzie and KW both need to have success with the 2005 Sox. Ozzie wasn't happy being sold a bill of goods from KW that the players he had in 2004 were the ones he could win with. If they were, the sox could have won even w/o Maggs and Frank. I kind of liken it to Scott Skiles and Paxson working together to bring in their type of players to the bulls. If they are going down, go down with the right type of players who will battle every night, and do the little things necessary to win. I think some of the Sox players battled when Frank and Maggs went down, but they didn't do the little things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 as an aside I think KW has the job for life if he wants it. JR's life that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 The Sox should get a position player who is a "winner", who can provide solid leadership and very good baseball skills. Just curious... Why do you put quotes around "winner"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 as an aside I think KW has the job for life if he wants it. JR's life that is. Any reason you think that? I'm guessing he has this season and the next to win, maybe just one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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