beck72 Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 Another sign the sox would be frontrunners for Renteria if STL can't resign him. Nomar should be off the market. http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-cub06.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 No How did I know you would be the one person who would say adding 20% in payroll isn't enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 I can't help but get the impression that some would find fault with the Sox no matter what they did. Sox too cheap? Sign Renteria for more than market value and they'd still find fault--"The sox still need to spend money elsewhere". It's like coming home with Cindy Crawford and some friends saying, "she's beautiful, don't get me wrong, but that mole on her face....". I know Wright isn't in the top tier of SP's, due to his health concerns. So people could pick that "signing" apart. But Renteria is the top SS available. I know it's all speculation on our parts. And Sox fans have good reason to be disappointed after these 4 yrs w/o the playoffs, and close to 90 yrs w/o a WS. Yet many of us don't realize how hard it is to put together a winning team that can compete with the Yanks and Red Sox w/o a payroll close to $100 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 How did I know you would be the one person who would say adding 20% in payroll isn't enough. Because this team still has holes at 2B/leadoff, 3B, and RF even with the signing of Wright and Renteria. That's, conservatively, 1/3rd of the lineup. I don't know about you, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for Crede's, Harris', and particularly, Garland's break out season. And I'm not even going to get into the whole catcher debate. A pitcher and a SS, while "adding 20% in payroll," is only addressing 20% of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 The Sox are set at 3B, at least for the first half of 2005. If they can't find a 2B, they'll deal with Willie. RF is definitely a hole as is a RP and a SP. As for Garland, I'm not a huge fan of his, but he has posted double digit wins the last few years and has been a workhorse the last two years. He would be a welcomed number 4 pitcher on most teams and probably a 2 or 3 on many. Maybe he hasn't put it all together, but i still think he is a valuable member of the Sox and deserved the contract he got this year. As for Renteria, 4/$40 would be a lot, but this guy has played on winning teams and can maybe add a spark to the Sox. It looks as if the Cubs will be signing Nomar which would pave the way. I think Kw and jR will balk at $10 mil per, but I could be wrong. Wright and Renteria and Dye would be fine with me for an offseason. But don't EVER count out KW for the big trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Because this team still has holes at 2B/leadoff, 3B, and RF even with the signing of Wright and Renteria. That's, conservatively, 1/3rd of the lineup. I don't know about you, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for Crede's, Harris', and particularly, Garland's break out season. And I'm not even going to get into the whole catcher debate. A pitcher and a SS, while "adding 20% in payroll," is only addressing 20% of the problem. 2b is taken care of with the signing of Renteria as Uribe slides over there, Harris won't be starting anymore. Everett, I have no faith in as well, I really think Escobar will be the starter by the AS break. 3B is fine with Crede. He won't put up star numbers, but with the rest of the offense, all he has to do is be solid. And realistically, you can't fill all of your holes unless you are the Yankees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 As for Garland, I'm not a huge fan of his, but he has posted double digit wins the last few years and has been a workhorse the last two years. He would be a welcomed number 4 pitcher on most teams and probably a 2 or 3 on many. Maybe he hasn't put it all together, but i still think he is a valuable member of the Sox and deserved the contract he got this year. As for Renteria, 4/$40 would be a lot, but this guy has played on winning teams and can maybe add a spark to the Sox. It looks as if the Cubs will be signing Nomar which would pave the way. I think Kw and jR will balk at $10 mil per, but I could be wrong. Wright and Renteria and Dye would be fine with me for an offseason. But don't EVER count out KW for the big trade. If the Sox could get the two holes filled in Renteria and wright, they should be able to fill 2 holes via trade [the bullpen, C and Rf ] with some combination of prospects and PK. I wouldn't trade Garland at this point [unless he was moved as part of a pkg for an even better pitcher like Hudson] Any "big" trade would have to involve Lee. [seeing how .300 hitters don't exactly grow on trees, unless another solid .300 hitter came over in a deal, it's hard to see how lee is moved] It'll be interesting to see how Renteria will pan out. If Nomar gets $8 mill + incentives for 1 yr, he should come in under $10 mill a yr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 2b is taken care of with the signing of Renteria as Uribe slides over there, Harris won't be starting anymore. Everett, I have no faith in as well, I really think Escobar will be the starter by the AS break. 3B is fine with Crede. He won't put up star numbers, but with the rest of the offense, all he has to do is be solid. And realistically, you can't fill all of your holes unless you are the Yankees. This post is 100% right on. The signing of a guy like Renteria takes care of both the SS and 2B problem as Uribe becomes the everyday starting second baseman. Remember if Jaret Wright is signed and Paulie is traded, we will have adressed every major problem during this ONE off-season. I anticpate Kenny to sign two big name free agents: one at shortstop or second base, and the other at SP. Then, a trade involving Paulie will most likely bring in our remaining bullpen answers as well as some help in the form of prospects. Before we crucify Kenny, let's let the man work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 jesus on a stick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Before we crucify Kenny, let's let the man work. 100 % agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 This post is 100% right on. The signing of a guy like Renteria takes care of both the SS and 2B problem as Uribe becomes the everyday starting second baseman. Remember if Jaret Wright is signed and Paulie is traded, we will have adressed every major problem during this ONE off-season. I anticpate Kenny to sign two big name free agents: one at shortstop or second base, and the other at SP. Then, a trade involving Paulie will most likely bring in our remaining bullpen answers as well as some help in the form of prospects. Before we crucify Kenny, let's let the man work. we've watched KW work for 4 off seasons. Although it is way too early, it early indications indicate this offseason's philosophy is no better than the other years when he has failed. I've been a huge supporter of ownership, but if they really think they can win, and hold payroll at about the same level, they are a lot more crazy as those people who thought the Sox could make up 3 games on Cleveland in 1997. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 we've watched KW work for 4 off seasons. Although it is way too early, it early indications indicate this offseason's philosophy is no better than the other years when he has failed. I've been a huge supporter of ownership, but if they really think they can win, and hold payroll at about the same level, they are a lot more crazy as those people who thought the Sox could make up 3 games on Cleveland in 1997. Again, let's wait to lambaste Kenny until after after Winter Meetings. I, too, expect some good things this off-season. If Kenny produces an off-season of sub-par quality, then let's give him hell. This is way too early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Again, let's wait to lambaste Kenny until after after Winter Meetings. Wait until after the Winter Meetings to insult Williams, eh? No problem. I can wait until December 13th. At best, one less argument for a productive offseason will be available. There's still the "plenty of time before spring training" and "KW always makes a move by Soxfest.." cliches remaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 You guys are crazy if you want or think Everett or Escobar is capable of being a starting RF in this league. I might as well say Joe Borchard should be the starter cause at least he'll enterain us fans every once in a while with a 500 FT homerun, in between his record strike out numbers. If the Sox start next season with that hole in right field and with the pen looking the way it is this year, its going to be a really really long season. The most important needs are a SP, RP, OF and then a leadoff or two hole hitter with Rowand or Willie filling in the other spot at the top of the lineup. This offense has long proven its capable of putting up runs, so because of that leadoff spot isn't near as much of a concern for me as it is for others. This lineup did it last season with Harris/Uribe most of the way and if they are doing it again so be it, cause the bats in the middle can come through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Wait until after the Winter Meetings to insult Williams, eh? No problem. I can wait until December 13th. At best, one less argument for a productive offseason will be available. There's still the "plenty of time before spring training" and "KW always makes a move by Soxfest.." cliches remaining. I'm with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Jermaine Dye in RF, Everett as DH until (and IF) big Frank is ready to go. Escobar to start in AAA, or as the last reserve OF if he has a big spring. Just an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 I'm with you Why do I get the feeling that there isn't a GM in the league that you'd be happy with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Why do I get the feeling that there isn't a GM in the league that you'd be happy with? I'd be happy with KW if he can put together a WS Contender in Sox Fandom's eyes instead of a Division Contender in his eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 I'd be happy with KW if he can put together a WS Contender in Sox Fandom's eyes instead of a Division Contender in his eyes. Sorry to disappoint your signature, but IMO, a lot of the movement will come in January. We might see something in the next 10 days, I suspect we will. But that key date is 12/19, the non-tender date. I don't think it'll just be slugs let go either ... it will open up some significant player movement, i.e. dominoes falling. Personally ... I'm not going to get cranky about inactivity until it gets to 2/15. I know people will be screaming before then, it's just where I fall on the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Jermaine Dye in RF, Everett as DH until (and IF) big Frank is ready to go. Escobar to start in AAA, or as the last reserve OF if he has a big spring. Just an opinion. I'm not entirely sold on Gload, but I'd like to see him in the batting order until he proves that he can't get on base in the ML. Whether that's at first or as DH, I don't really care. Of course, if Konerko is traded, that's not in conflict w/ your plan. But that's no sure thing. Btw, is Perez coming back? It's not a big deal, but it does seem like you might as well try something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 I'd be happy with KW if he can put together a WS Contender in Sox Fandom's eyes instead of a Division Contender in his eyes. Uhh, I think you have that ass backwards. KW is trying to put together World Series caliber teams as evident by him getting Garcia last season instead of Moyer or Cory Lidle. When asked about any minor leaguers being "untouchable," Kenny said "1917." The man knows the Sox haven't won a championship in 88 years, and isn't satisfied with just a division title. The problem comes in when whiney Sox fans b**** about KW because the Sox didn't win the division, and they feel that KW didn't put a division winning caliber team on the field, when in fact the teams KW put together (2003 and 2004) he was expecting them to go deep into the playoffs. b****. b****. b****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Uhh, I think you have that ass backwards. KW is trying to put together World Series caliber teams as evident by him getting Garcia last season instead of Moyer or Cory Lidle. When asked about any minor leaguers being "untouchable," Kenny said "1917." The man knows the Sox haven't won a championship in 88 years, and isn't satisfied with just a division title. The problem comes in when whiney Sox fans b**** about KW because the Sox didn't win the division, and they feel that KW didn't put a division winning caliber team on the field, when in fact the teams KW put together (2003 and 2004) he was expecting them to go deep into the playoffs. b****. b****. b****. Ditto. I've been as frustrated as anyone about the past few seasons. Most of that frustration stems from the fact that Kenny has gotten the players and we've had, on paper, playoff caliber teams made to go deep in the playoffs, and still come up short. I haven't always agreed with his decisions, but there is no doubt in my mind that Kenny has World Series intentions in most of the moves he makes (Garcia move last year, Everett/Alomar part 1 and the Colon trade have proven this to me). And to assume on Dec. 6 that Kenny isn't going to do s***, when he has gained a reputation around baseball as being one of the busiest in the business, just makes no sense. But I'm sure that even if he makes a big move, some of you will find a way to pass it off as a fluke, so I'll just stop here. :sleep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Uhh, I think you have that ass backwards. Ummmmm..... no I don't. KW said as much in his letter to the fans on the Sox MLB website shortly after the '04 season was done for the Sox saying he thought he assembled a team that could challenge, "for the Division." No mention of assembling a team that could challenge for a WS. But Sox fans have been fed scraps my entire life so I guess we should be happy when a Sox team actually wins a Division..... something KW has, thus far, failed miserably at doing. But who am I, a fan, to nit-pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Ummmmm..... no I don't. KW said as much in his letter to the fans on the Sox MLB website shortly after the '04 season was done for the Sox saying he thought he assembled a team that could challenge, "for the Division." No mention of assembling a team that could challenge for a WS. But Sox fans have been fed scraps my entire life so I guess we should be happy when a Sox team actually wins a Division..... something KW has, thus far, failed miserably at doing. But who am I, a fan, to nit-pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted December 7, 2004 Share Posted December 7, 2004 Ummmmm..... no I don't. KW said as much in his letter to the fans on the Sox MLB website shortly after the '04 season was done for the Sox saying he thought he assembled a team that could challenge, "for the Division." No mention of assembling a team that could challenge for a WS. But Sox fans have been fed scraps my entire life so I guess we should be happy when a Sox team actually wins a Division..... something KW has, thus far, failed miserably at doing. But who am I, a fan, to nit-pick "Failed miserably?" Give me a f***ing break. We been down this road a 100 times. KW was not responsible for the September collapse against the Twins. KW was not responsible for Magglio or Frank getting hurt. KW was not responsible for Konerko going into a coma for most of 2003. KW was not responsible for the starting pitchers getting pulled too soon in 2002 and 2003. KW was not responsible for Frank's hot bat going ice cold in September. KW was not responsible for Mark Buehrle going 2-10 for the beginning of the 2003 season. KW was not responsible for starting Neal Cotts in Yankee stadium. Get off him already. The manager is responsible for getting all of the talent out of the players he is given (i.e. Jerry Manuel.) The players also have their own responsibility as well. You can't fault KW for the team not winning in 2003, that was Manuel's fault. What do you think would've happened to the 2003 team if KW got his wish and dumped Manuel after the All-Star break or back in May? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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