Anti-War Activist Experience

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I had received this on the CIBCAR mailing list a few weeks ago and thought it would be interesting to post it now and get your guys' thoughts on it. Without further, adieu...here comes this man's experience. (This took place in Arizona)

 

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My Visit to the Pro-War (Kill'em All) Rally

 

Last night, a local talk radio station organized a "It's not about

disrobing, but disarming" rally in support of the upcoming war on

Iraq.

 

As some of you may know, I had decided to go make my pro-peace voice

heard, even if I was the only one.

 

Friday afternoon, I got my sign ready. One side said "Honor Vets,

Wage Peace" and the other said "Support our Troops - Stop The War". I

also, thanks to some friends, had about 20 copies of enlistment forms with

the address and phone number of every recruiting office attached to

each one.

 

I got to 24th street and Camelback around 5:45ish, having a

difficult time finding the bar they were having the rally at. I walked about 7

times around the intersection, getting honked for and honked at.

Sometimes flipped off and yelled at, but kept on undeterred.

 

Then as the sun set, I decided to head into the belly of the

beast...off to Nixon's and the "kill 'em all" rally".

 

At first the security wasn't going to let me near the place, because

of my sign. Then, after pointing out to him that there were other

signs larger than mine, and talking to his supervisor, he let me

pass. There were probably 200-300 people there... a pretty decent

sized crowd, but still only 10% of the usual Phoenix area peace

demonstrations.

 

To be honest, I was shaking and a bit nervous. I heard there was

another pro-peace demonstrator there, and I saw him, so I was able

to relax a little. Two was better than one.

 

I have never been so mocked in my entire life. I stood there proudly,

quietly, not getting angry, not yelling, holding my sign. Some of

the others stood in front of me and held their signs in front of mine,

so I just raised mine higher. Fortunately I'm 6'2" and had a long stick

on mine. One 20-something held his "America.. Love it or Leave it"

sign in my face and yelled at me. I asked him if he came up with

that all by himself or if he had someone else help him. I was called

every name in the book by some folks. An older veteran threatened me

telling me that it was because of him that I could be out there

today. I thanked him for his service, and then produced my DD-214

and VA letter stating I, too, was a disabled veteran. He

seemed flustered and left.

 

A lady who lost her husband in Korea called me a jerk. I asked her

if she ever wanted anyone else to go through what she went through and

that I was sorry for her loss and grateful to her husband for his

sacrifice. She muttered "asshole" and walked away.

 

Some younger (early 20's) pro-death types then challenged me. I

stood my ground and asked them if they thought we should really be going

to war. They said "Hell Yes!" So, I pulled 5 enlistment forms from my

back pocket and said I would go with them to sign up to fight. Their

response "I can better support the war by staying here and paying my

taxes." I thought. So I asked them if they thought it was ok to send

other people's children to die in their place. Flustered, they left.

 

I did, not to completely slam them, did have long calm involved

debates with a few ASU college Republicans. They seemed shocked of

the news that Saddam Hussein has never done anything without

expressed or implied consent of the US.

 

They didn't know that the original disarmament resolution (678?) was

designed to create a WMD free buffer zone in the Middle East... and

that included Israel. They talked democracy in Iraq, I talked ethnic

divisions that would never allow that to really happen.

 

They had no clue about the tension between Turkey and the Kurds.

They didn't realize that France lost 1.4 million people in WWI and

hundreds of thousands more in WWII and that is what led to their

internal strife dealing with Nazi Germany.

 

They also didn't know that France has been dealing with terrorism for

over 20 years now.

 

The event hosts mocked me openly over the microphone. They tried to

chase me away with chants of "USA, USA". One guy even challenged

this "commie pinko, f**-loving hippie" (my favorite insult of the

night) to donate $20 to the Red Cross. A challenge he placed on all

Vets. You should have seen all the jaws drop when I put my sign

down, took the envelope, pulled $20 out of my wallet, sealed the envelope,

and gave it back to him.

 

"See", I told them, "I do support our military. I just do not

support the war with Iraq." The biggest vomit point of the night came when

they played that damn Toby Keith song and all of them sang along...

really loud during the "We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the

American way" part. Someone asked me what group I was with. I

said "me and my two children... that's who I'm here for". She

actually smiled when she learned that I was there by my own volition

and shook my hand and left.

 

All in all it was a very..... unique experience.

 

This was a guy who had a sign that said "No mercy for the

merciless". Priceless, huh? And, no surprise here, absolutely none of the 20-

somethings in favor of the war took my challenge to enlist in the

military. None. Zero. Zip, zilch, nada.

 

As I was leaving, a woman and her 3 kids came up to me and handed me

one of those pocket book copies of the Constitution. I thanked her

and told her to keep it as it would become a collectors item once

Dubya and Ashcroft were done eliminating the parts they didn't like.

(This brought me chants of 'asshole', but ya know what... it's true.

Patriot I and Patriot II make this fact.)

 

About 8:30, I got back to my car, put my sign in the trunk, and

headed back home. Yelled at, mocked, taunted, teased, and threatened

I consider it to be a success. I didn't lose my temper and I didn't

make an ass of myself.

[baggio202]

funny you bring this up..i went to the anti war rally a week or so ago in chicago..here is my story..

 

made up my sign, one side said , "god bless george bush and out troops" , the other side said "saddam must go"

 

...took the train downtown and got some dirty looks from some obviously anti war types going to the rally...on my way i must admit i got a little scared because as anti-war protestors who were driving by on my walk from the train station to michigan avenue would yell out the window some pretty vile stuff..besides the normal vocabulary of a bunch of drunken college kids who dont even know what they are really protesting for i heard stuff like "baby killer" , "war monger" and crap like that

 

at the rally i have never been so mocked in my life..some guy came up to me with a sign that said "bush is hitler" and tried to stick it in my face...i asked him if he thought of that all by himself or did he have to get help from his buddies...i was called every name in the book by some of the "peaceniks"...one guy yelled if i was so willing to send others off to die why didnt i go join up myself..at that point i produced my DD214 and showed him where i served this country for 7 years..told him i would love to go back in but at 41 and just having neck surgery i wasnt what the army was looking for....but if they would let me i would be on my way to training right now instead of standing here...he seemed flustered and mumbled something about yeah i bet you'd go back in and left..

 

this one girl came up to me and tried to tell me that war is never the answer...i said well do you agree saddam is evil and should be removed from power and she yes but we should it peacefully..i told you so agree saddam should be removed from power, now the greatest minds in the world have been trying to disarm him peacefully for 12 years but havent been sucessful...so will you please tell me how you would remove him , peacefully...she thought about it for a second , gave a deep sigh, then walked away saying nothing...

 

i did have a quiet debate with a few college kids from wisconsin...the told me we should follow france's lead..they seemed shock at the news that chirac and saddam have been buddies since the 70's and that france is the country who gave iraq nuclear capabilities...they had no clue who deep iraq's ties to france are...they also were shocked to know that the US back in 91 armed the kurds and the shiites to help them overthrow saddam only to back out at the last minute which lead to the slaughter of thousands of shiites in the south and the fleeing of kurds to turkey where 1500 kurds starved and / or froze to death...they really didnt know france had ulterior motives...

 

there was this one guy that had a sign that said "we support our troops when the kill their officers"..priceless huh??

 

one of the guys who was speaking single me out and yell out that i was a war monger..i saidwe are at war and what your are doing is hurting our troops who are risking their lives for us...after a round of jeers from the lovely crowd he saids that they fully support the troops..just not the war..at that point i pulled a 50 dollar bill out of my wallet and said if thats true match this 50 and we can walk to the red cross right now and donate to them...prove you support the troops...he said aomething abouthe couldnt leave the protest right now and he already gave to the red cross.. a likely story...

 

as i was leaving this lady came up to me and said that the bush administration is destroying the constitution.. how all this homeland security stuff was a violation of our personal freedom's and was making a mockery of our freedoms...at that point i kind of shocked her when i said well what's your position on the 2nd amendment..should the population be able to arm itself.???.she said well of course i am for gun control..the 2nd amendment is for a well organized militia and not for average citizens...i then told her so you are afraid of the government taking your rights away to the point where you dont want any added security...but you also want to take away guns from average citizens who also wont be able to defend themselves and neither wil lthe government under your plan..i told her that she really didnt think her position out very well

 

while she was searching for a response i also said that the 2nd amendment is there for the citizens to arm theselves against any invader foriegn or 'domestic".... domestic meaning our own government run amock which was her first concern when she came up to me telling me bush is crapping all over the constitution..after that she just shook my hand , said i had a well thought out position on the subject , smiled and left (should have gotten her number )...

 

about 7:30 i headed back to union station...on the train back home i felt it was a realsuccess..i didnt lose my temper and dint make an ass of myself..

 

 

 

 

see apu..anyone can make this crap up

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Baggs, I didn't make it up. It's actually a friend of a friend of mine. But nice try.

 

How about addressing the arguments in it? Oh yeah, cuz this war is illegal and wrong and borderline imperialism.

I really find it odd that veterans like yourself can rally around a chickenhawk president. Really amazes me. When he is sending off more people to die for no reason.

 

Oh yeah, check THIS out:

"We should not march into Baghdad. . . . To occupy Iraq would instantly

shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us, and make a

broken tyrant into a latter-day Arab hero . . . assigning young soldiers to

a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning them to

fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerrilla war. It could only

plunge that part of the world into even greater instability."

-- George H. W. Bush, in his 1998 book

"A World Transformed"

 

As suspected former President George Bush I is not a real American like his son. Perhaps he should have a one way ticket to Baghdad and Tehran like the fascist religious right says that peace folks should do. Man, I thought George I was smart, after all the "born again Christian" chose him as his vice president. But, George the I is nothing but an unpatriotic, secular humanist allied with the socialist and Muslim fundamentalists!

[LowerCaseRepublican]

An Anti-War statement from National Peace Action

 

We support the troops by opposing this war.

Our hearts go out to the military personnel and families who are suffering

enormous strain right now. Many of us have friends and loved ones in the

armed forces, and it is because we care about them that we believe their

lives should not be risked for a war that is not consistent with American

democratic values.

 

Recently a reservist we know received his orders, and just before reporting

for duty, he wrote: "There is no better way to support men and women in

uniform than by keeping us out of harm’s way. Using us as pawns in a game of

global chess is not patriotic and it is not a sign of support. We are

counting on you to bring us home and keep the administration accountable for

our well-being. Our job is to defend the Constitution, to keep safe ‘we the

people’; it is not to be exploited as instruments for political or global

gain."

 

What does supporting the troops have to do with opposing the war?

We see four main reasons:

 

War requires an enormous sacrifice by military personnel and their families.

How can we in good conscience demand that they make this sacrifice when we

have not exhausted all our other options first? If we treat this war as if

it will be an easy excursion, if we ignore peaceful means of resolution out

of impatience or rage, we disrespect the difficulty they suffer daily. And

if we fail to fully invest in that process and exhaust all other channels of

diplomacy, we deal a blow to every family that faces the emotional and

financial hardship of separation from a loved one.

 

Carol Korreck, mother of a nineteen-year-old soldier, wrote a letter to

George W. Bush: "This is my son Tim. You have been referring to him as

‘military force.’ I want you to be continually mindful of the fact that your

‘military force’ has a mother and two sisters that want you to value his

life as much as we do. Not only do you have the future of our nation to

decide, you have my son’s future in your hands. War is a last resort. We

have not exhausted every other possible means in the fight against terrorism

and Saddam Hussein and I don’t understand how you will personally justify

loss of life if you don’t take every other option first."

 

The government hasn’t even properly cared for veterans of the first Gulf

War.

Many Gulf War veterans have died from or continue to experience nightmarish

medical problems (including "Gulf War Syndrome," possibly caused by

experimental vaccines and U.S. weaponry containing depleted uranium, among

other things). The Pentagon estimates that 90,000 troops who served in the

Gulf War complain of serious symptoms--yet upon reporting their illness,

many have been dismissed as "crazy" or faced enormous obstacles in receiving

treatment. (Of those who submitted claims for undiagnosed illnesses, 73

percent have been denied help, according to the Department of Veterans

Affairs.) One Gulf War veteran wrote, "It was the choice that I made to

spend the rest of my life defending my country and my beliefs; now it’s all

spent in the hospital, just trying to survive, and I still have to fight the

government every day to get the medications that I need."

 

As of 2001, nearly 10,000 Gulf War vets had died from the illness. The money

that could fund competent medical attention for these veterans is being

spent on the drive for yet another war. Where is the "support for the

troops" once their fighting potential has been exhausted? Is it morally

acceptable to do this to another generation of soldiers?

 

Sending human beings into battle is an enormous responsibility to bear.

The administration shirked its responsibility when it failed to acknowledge

the real cost and consequences of war--including risks that those pushing

for war (George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz,

Richard Perle) have never had to face. Another veteran from Florida wrote to

us recently: "I am a veteran of the Vietnam War Era. I served in the South

China Sea in a war zone while George W. Bush was dodging the draft. I am now

55 years old and with age comes the realization that war solves nothing.

Nothing. Now at this time in my life the administration expects me to rally

behind a war that is likely to light the powder keg that is the Middle

East....If my last breath is one of protest to this war then I couldn't die

a finer death....You may count me as an avid supporter of any group that

advocates an end to this madness."

 

Supporting the troops means coming to terms with the reality of what they

face, not romanticizing it.

Veterans for Peace warns: "We know the consequences of American foreign

policy because once, at a time in our lives, so many of us carried it out.

We find it sad that war seems so delightful, so often, to those that have no

knowledge of it. We will proudly, and patriotically, continue to denounce

war despite whatever misguided sense of euphoria supports it."

 

With language like "surgical strikes" and "collateral damage," we ignore the

reality of what soldiers are really being asked to do. "Smart bombs" have

incinerated even civilian bomb shelters. Many innocent civilians die in war,

and even those soldiers who return uninjured are forced to carry those

memories for the rest of their lives. In the words of 20-year veteran Gary

Huested, "You hear the cries and screams, so unearthly you wonder how the

person lying next to you could make such a noise, his eyes locked open, his

mouth contorted almost beyond recognition....You’re left with the knowledge

of Kurtz’s horror in Conrad’s Heart of Darkness, unable to forget what you

did and saw, unable to keep it buried...."

 

We reach out to servicemen and women with deep respect and hopes for their

safety. As American citizens, it’s precisely because we care about America’s

democratic values that we have to speak out against injustice. You can still

be a patriot--which many of us consider ourselves to be--without agreeing

with every action the administration takes, especially in matters as serious

as waging a war. We will continue to insist that the administration not

dishonor the commitment of servicemen and women by sending them to

ever-escalating "pre-emptive" wars around the globe, but allow them to do

the job they courageously pledged to do: "to keep safe 'we the people.'"

 

MORE RESOURCES

www.bringthemhomenow.com

www.mfso.org

www.veteransforpeace.org

www.gulfweb.org

www.veteransforcommonsense.org

www.vaiw.org/vet/index.php

[baggio202]

Baggs, I didn't make it up.  It's actually a friend of a friend of mine.  But nice try. 

 

How about addressing the arguments in it?  Oh yeah, cuz this war is illegal and wrong and borderline imperialism.

I really find it odd that veterans like yourself can rally around a chickenhawk president.  Really amazes me.  When he is sending off more people to die for no reason.

 

Oh yeah, check THIS out:

"We should not march into Baghdad. . . .  To occupy Iraq would instantly

shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us, and make a

broken tyrant into a latter-day Arab hero . . . assigning young soldiers to

a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning them to

fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerrilla war.  It could only

plunge that part of the world into even greater instability."

                      -- George H. W. Bush, in his 1998 book

                            "A World Transformed"

 

As suspected former President George Bush I is not a real American like his son. Perhaps he should have a one way ticket to Baghdad and Tehran like the fascist religious right says that peace folks should do. Man, I thought George I was smart, after all the "born again Christian" chose him as his vice president. But, George the I is nothing but an unpatriotic, secular humanist allied with the socialist and Muslim fundamentalists!

apu....i didthat to prove a point that you didnt get or wont acknowledge...ill give you the benefit of the doubt and say your friend actually went to this rally....what did he call it ??...."the kill um all rally"..then his entire letter is about how everyone there is stupid, they dont have a clue what the situation is all about..he has to go around and "enlighten" all the war mongers...i love the part about the "ASU republicans" who didnt even know about the kurds or the different ethnic groups in iraq (just a reminder for your friends next "enlightenment" pow - wow..dont forget to mention the assyrian (sp) christians who still speak in the tongue of jesus christ , aramaic (again sorry for my poor spelling))..every one is calling him a hippie pinko commie ??...america , love it or leave it??...this is right out of the 60 vietnam era...this is a pre-concieved notion your friend has...which is what leads me to believe this is a crock..ive seen one pro war rally out here in the burbs ( it was a small one) and have checked the signs on tv for the few the networks have shown...most of the signs are about either tieing 911 to saddam...supporting the president , supporting the troops, or about freeing iraq...while im sure there are some negative ones they are no where near the majority...

 

there was nothing objective about what he said...

 

whats to discuss???..i countered every paragraph in my first reply with the same biased arguement that could be made on the other side when you have an informed person one side and someone w/o a clue on the other..this is like james carville vrs turcker carlson on CNN...where carvile spends 27 minutes on an anti -bush rant and carlson spends 3 minutes with snappy retorts like "you really believe that james"...

 

remember where i put in where the blonde girl just sighed and walked away because she had no clue when asked who do you remove saddam peacefully when it hasnt worked for 12 years..that actually happened..saw it on an interview on WGN at one of the chicago peace rallies..the reporter asked her that question and let out this big sigh and was silent for about 5 seconds...then left w/o saying a word...

 

1441..disarm "immediately" or face severe consequences...signed on by every security counsel member 15-0...not that the US needs that proof because the US doesnt let the UN security counsel make its foriegn policy but for people like you who think we have to have UN backing to go to war...thanks to 1441 we already have just that

[1549]

Saddam did not disarm like that code you cited says too...anybody that disagreed before can now eat there words because the soldiers found an eyewitness and a myriad of documents. So how can you say this is an unjust war when Saddam created by not obeying the rules...knowing full well the concequenses.

 

TIME magazine had a survey that I know apu will like in the survey, 41% of those asked said that they would approve of the usage of battle field nuclear weapons by the coalition forces. I am no military expert, but I am guessing that these are smaller strategic nuclear missiles. What ever they are I am sure the words nuclear, weapons, and battlefield all in the same sentence brings a smile to all the antiwar people's faces.

 

Also Apu, I know you are into that socialist stuff, and in my history class we are reading The Jungle by Upton Sinclair...I am sure you have read it, but if you haven't, you should read it...it has that socialist twist to it

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Saddam did not disarm like that code you cited says too...anybody that disagreed before can now eat there words because the soldiers found an eyewitness and a myriad of documents.  So how can you say this is an unjust war when Saddam created by not obeying the rules...knowing full well the concequenses. 

 

TIME magazine had a survey that I know apu will like in the survey, 41% of those asked said that they would approve of the usage of battle field nuclear weapons by the coalition forces.  I am no military expert, but I am guessing that these are smaller strategic nuclear missiles.  What ever they are I am sure the words nuclear, weapons, and battlefield all in the same sentence brings a smile to all the antiwar people's faces.

 

Also Apu, I know you are into that socialist stuff, and in my history class we are reading The Jungle by Upton Sinclair...I am sure you have read it, but if you haven't, you should read it...it has that socialist twist to it

I have read the Jungle. Very good book, muckrakers are very powerful. Some of his other stuff like King Coal, etc. is also very good. It just gets a little too preachy at the end for me. Democratic socialism is great. It's a combo of Marx, Engels, etc.

[baggio202]

apu..when youre 40, youre gonna be a conservative republican...you are the classic example of a superliberal at 20 , converting to a conservative republican at 40..youre too smart not too

[LowerCaseRepublican]

apu..when youre 40, youre gonna be a conservative republican...you are the classic example of a superliberal at 20 , converting to a conservative republican at 40..youre too smart not too

I never have been and never will be a member of the Republicans. I have great apprehensions about the Tom Daschle's Pansycrats, excuse me, the Democrats. It's all about finding individual candidates no matter what party that actually give a damn about the people and the voters and not about PAC cash (aka being a corporate whore) Too bad there are not many of them at all.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle...sp?story=393066

 

Marketplace missile found to be a US one made by Raytheon.