SoxFan562004 Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 the thing that is going to piss me off the most is when KW tries to spin some mid level signing as a big deal.... my money is on Cairo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Heres a question. What starters on the block could the Sox get offering Konerko and Garland? I would have to think that should be able to land one good pitcher. Would it be enough to get one of the Big 3, I doubt it, simply because the A's would be adding payroll. If a 3rd team got involved, possibly. Could it be a package that could land Brad Penny??? That could be interesting. Would the Marlins be willing to deal AJ Burnett who will be gone at the end of this next season. Its a risk the Sox would be taking on his health, but he's a fantastic pitcher when healthy. Obviously Joel Pineiro is out their. But what about an all on full court press for Ben Sheets or someone of that magnitute. Seems like the Brewers may actually up payroll, but if you offer them enough they may bite on Sheets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 how about andy ashby I'd give him an invite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Found this article on the Lieber, Cairo situation. The Yankees' failure in October had little to do with starter Jon Lieber or second baseman Miguel Cairo. But the two will almost certainly be gone next season. Lieber was close to signing with the Philadelphia Phillies last night, and the Yankees are replacing Cairo with the veteran Tony Womack. Womack, whose ninth-inning double off Mariano Rivera tied Game 7 and helped the Arizona Diamondbacks win the 2001 World Series, agreed last night to a two-year contract worth about $4 million. The 35-year-old Womack, a left-handed hitter, batted .307 and stole 26 bases last season as the St. Louis Cardinals' regular season baseman. "We were very much surprised," Cairo's agent, Alan Nero, said late last night. "Up until five or six hours ago, we had no idea this was a possibility. There was somebody else they wanted, and Womack obviously was receptive." The Yankees did not announce the Womack signing, and General Manager Brian Cashman would not comment on him. But Cashman said the Yankees had turned to other options after they could not reach a contract agreement with Cairo, who is 30. "Miguel did a great job for us," Cashman said. "We signed him to be a utility guy, and he became something more than that. But we ran the risk of looking at 300-plus at-bats and saying, 'Was he really what he was for us, or was he somewhere between a utility and an everyday guy?' "It was difficult, but the cost was at a different level from what we wanted, and we started to look at other alternatives." The Yankees have 10 free agents and offered salary arbitration to only three: starters Orlando Hernandez and Lieber and designated hitter Ruben Sierra. The Yankees will continue to try to sign all three, but two baseball officials said Lieber was close to signing with the Phillies, who seemed prepared to give him a three-year contract. The Yankees want to sign two free agents from the group that includes the right-handers Lieber, Carl Pavano and Jaret Wright and the left-hander Eric Milton. The deadline for teams to offer salary arbitration to their own free agents was midnight last night. Players who were offered have until Dec. 19 to accept or decline. Players not offered cannot re-sign with their teams until May 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox2334 Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 loaiza will be back hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Sounds like the Yanks will have Milton, Wright and RJ in the next 7 days. They are idiots for making the press they are for Eric Milton. Also remember their is still the possibility of Wade Miller being non-tendered. He'd be a dynamite type pickup if healthy. Although i read somewhere that Houston is pleased with his health status and may go to arb with him now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 loaiza will be back hahaha We burned that bridge. He will sign with the devil rays and one hit us when we have Jason Grilli starting against him later this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 What you don't realize is if we give up Garland the sox are a 4th place team. Jason Grilli will have a season of maybe 2 wins if he's flukey enough to stay in the game long enough. If given an entire season I have no doubt he would lose 20 games. So we are trading away a cheap innings eater in order to get some pitcher who might be lucky enough to win 15 games and conceding the automatic loss every 5th day. If Jason Grilli is in the rotation we might as well just have a white flag deal and just sell off the entire team right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 We burned that bridge. He will sign with the devil rays and one hit us when we have Jason Grilli starting against him later this year. best part of that will be his ERA will be 6.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox2334 Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 yes 1-15 from 5th starter again yess way to go kenny. You really learned how to fix that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 We burned that bridge. He will sign with the devil rays and one hit us when we have Jason Grilli starting against him later this year. Don't be too sure. If the Sox are out their late in the offseason still looking I'm sure he'd be willing to come back. He is a great guy and looked better out of the bullpen with New York in the postseason. Part of me thinks he was hampered heavily by the injury. I also think it helped that Jerry Manuel would constantly ask Elo how often he threw his changeup cause that pitch was non-existent in 2004 as was any pitch not called a cutter. He got too cutter happy and it burned him. But his arm was also banged up or so it seemed. Hell, I could see Elo making a decent setup man if 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox2334 Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 loaiza in our bullpen yea thats great lol were looking for real bullpen guy not a guy who was a starter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I'm glad members are finally beginning to comprehend the patterns on this organization. Where's my fellow companion in exposing the truth, Cubkilla, when you're looking for someone to offer sarcastic comments? Here's my belief with the offseaon: The White Sox have roughly 5 million available for Free Agent acquisitions. Vizquel was offered that amount, and I'll venture to predict a base salary of that price was presented to Wright. Therefore, nearly every available pitcher capable of filling the #3 spot falls out of our range. Missing out on Wright hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 You can find faults in any player available on the market. If you can't, the particular player you've envisioned is likely commanding a high salary. Honestly, is there a pitcher available who is cheap, young, talented, and willing to pitch at USCF? Someone who raises no questions yet is well worth their market value? Wright may have been our best option when you factor in financial limitations (ie, Reinsdorf). These weren't small flaws with Wright. When you say he may have been our best option, do you mean our best option at a price we could have signed him at, or at a theoretical lower price that we thought would be the going rate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Also remember their is still the possibility of Wade Miller being non-tendered. He'd be a dynamite type pickup if healthy. Although i read somewhere that Houston is pleased with his health status and may go to arb with him now. He'd be a dynamite reliever. Endurance has always been the knack on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 We burned that bridge. He will sign with the devil rays and one hit us when we have Jason Grilli starting against him later this year. How did we burn that bridge? By giving him a shot to win a World Series? You mean like how Baltimore gave Sidney Ponson a chance to win a World Series, or how Oakland gave Rickey Henderson a chance to win a World Series in the 90s? If anything, it made him happier...that was win-win-win-win on all sides of the deal. New York got a more consistent pitcher who was solid out of the pen for them in the playoffs, Esteban got a chance to win a World Series, the Sox got a pitcher with a lot of upside, and Contreras got out of New York. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 8, 2004 Author Share Posted December 8, 2004 loaiza in our bullpen yea thats great lol were looking for real bullpen guy not a guy who was a starter Most bullpen pitchers are failed starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 (edited) You can find faults in any player available on the market. If you can't, the particular player you've envisioned is likely commanding a high salary. Honestly, is there a pitcher available who is cheap, young, talented, and willing to pitch at USCF? Someone who raises no questions yet is well worth their market value? Wright may have been our best option when you factor in financial limitations (ie, Reinsdorf). Yeah I can find faults with every player out there, but we aren't in the financial position to be taking huge gambles, which is exactly what Wright is. I've posted before about the winner's curse, it's a theory based in actions, which is essentially what free agency is. Which brings us to the Winner’s Curse. In essence, if four teams with equal footing bid for a player, the team that wins is the one that figured that player would make the greatest contribution – and so is the one most likely to have overestimated that player’s future value. Or, to put this another way: say something goes up for auction. All four bid on it, and one wins. They immediately decide to try and sell it to the losing bidders, who dropped out at different prices, for the winning price. None will take it – they all think the item has a lower actual value than the winner paid. The sox have to succeed in the "moneyball" philosophy. That's not to say that they have to value OBP above all else. It means they have to suceed by aquiring a skill that the market inherently undervalues. I don't know what exactly that is, but I can tell you that mediocre right handed starters are highly over valued. Edited December 8, 2004 by Gene Honda Civic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 He'd be a dynamite reliever. Endurance has always been the knack on him. Averaging 100.5 pitches per game started in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Esteban looked very good out of the pen in game 5(was it?) for New York. Looked very very sharp. He could very easily be a dyn-o-mite reliever who could give us 100 innings, maybe even more. He's always had the stuff, just has never had the ability to pitch a ton of innings in a season and put it all together, with the exception of 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 He'd be a dynamite reliever. Endurance has always been the knack on him. R&W thats a pretty damn good idea. If he gets non-tendered that could be a really good move if he's healthy enough to handle the day to day grind of being a reliever. That and if his salary demands aren't too high, cause I still see him getting 3 mill a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I should add that I believe that is what the sox have been doing... Before the off-season got in to full swing, I thought that Vizquel was going to be one of the best "Values" out there... He may still have been, But I know I wouldn't have given him that 3rd year at any cost. I believed Wright was going to be one of the best values out there too. So much so that I didn't even bother mentioning him in the blog. I just assumed that he would be resigned for a couple years in ATL, and at less than half of what he got in NY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I swear we better sign Perez, Clement, and/or Javy or atleast someone on that level because this is bulls***. We always overpay with prospects, why not overpay with money for once. Wright wasn't a Cy Young option but damn he could've gave us a solid 1-5. I love the White Sox but some times they make me wish I could stop being a fan in the snap of my fingers... I'm just so damn disappointed right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 These weren't small flaws with Wright. When you say he may have been our best option, do you mean our best option at a price we could have signed him at, or at a theoretical lower price that we thought would be the going rate? Best available option at the price we were offering. Name one available FA pitcher, worth 5 million per/year, capable of providing this organization with a #3 spot in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I should add that I believe that is what the sox have been doing... Before the off-season got in to full swing, I thought that Vizquel was going to be one of the best "Values" out there... He may still have been, But I know I wouldn't have given him that 3rd year at any cost. I believed Wright was going to be one of the best values out there too. So much so that I didn't even bother mentioning him in the blog. I just assumed that he would be resigned for a couple years in ATL, and at less than half of what he got in NY. I'll agree with that. First time I saw Wright out their in FA, I said, wow he could be a sleeper. Then I figured Atlanta would lock him up pretty quick considering the Mazzone factor and all. Didn't happen though, Benson got his fat contract and things changed. I agree with you on Vizquel as well. Considering he was a very good fit for this club. KW knows he has a limited payroll and you got to do your best not to overpay. I've long looked at players and just said hey, its not worth it. You only overpay if you need to land some names, ie Detroit or if your one guy from the series and he's the one that will put you over the top. The Sox are in neither position as of this point. If they landed RJ they could of been, so I was a proponent of that. If Ozzie feels strongly against starting Willie then once again it may be best to give Renteria a good size deal, although personally I think he's drastically overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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