Chisoxfn Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Right now I find it highly unlikely that Kenny deals Garland unless he can get back two starters somehow. Like him dealing Garland for one starter and then Konerko for another starter. I'm with you Yasny and I'd like to see Garland pitching for the Sox this year. Hell, part of me would be exstatic if the Sox stood pat on the free agent market, and signed Odalis Perez at 5 mill a year and then tried their darnest to ink Alex Cora at 2 million per. That would put the Sox payroll right around 76 million which may just be doable. Right now while Vazquez could be really nice, I think you may be better off looking at Odalis Perez at 5 million a year, which is doable. Although a 3 yr 18 mill deal and I'd really guess he'd join the club. I say if the Sox have to give up Garland and PK for their ace then they better damn well be getting somone better then Vazquez or be getting something else pretty damn good with it. Personally I'm thinking we may see the Sox look at a guy none of us are expecting via trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 and that's based on? I'd say Vazquez is MORE likely to have the better year because he has more sucess, and has better stuff. That's based on the fact we've heard reports that Vazquez lost his arm skot and has lost velocity. Shades of Billy Koch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Javier Vazquez in 2004: Day Games IP: 59.1 HR: 6 ERA: 3.03 WHIP: 1.04 BAA: .202 Night Games IP: 138.2 HR: 27 ERA: 5.71 WHIP: 1.39 BAA: .275 This guy can't pitch at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Javier Vazquez in 2004: Day Games IP: 59.1 HR: 6 ERA: 3.03 WHIP: 1.04 BAA: .202 Night Games IP: 138.2 HR: 27 ERA: 5.71 WHIP: 1.39 BAA: .275 This guy can't pitch at night. He is also to severe of a fly ball pitcher and that does not bode well for our field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 He is also to severe of a fly ball pitcher and that does not bode well for our field. The funny thing is, if I recall, earlier in his career he had at least a few seasons where he was more of a groundball pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 All thru the offseason and up to the '03 trade deadline, we were all trying to figure out a way to get Vazquez from the Expos. Now that he's with Yankees, he is a question mark in many peoples minds. It's strange how perceptions can change after 1 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 The funny thing is, if I recall, earlier in his career he had at least a few seasons where he was more of a groundball pitcher. He had one year were he had a 1.51 g/f ratio which is pretty much in the middle of the road. His 1.08 career g/f ratio scares the s*** out of me because anything hit in the air here seems like it can go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 All thru the offseason and up to the '03 trade deadline, we were all trying to figure out a way to get Vazquez from the Expos. Now that he's with Yankees, he is a question mark in many peoples minds. It's strange how perceptions can change after 1 season. I would have not wanted him either way to be honest. G/f ratio in my opinion should be one of the determining factors in getting a pitcher for this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 All thru the offseason and up to the '03 trade deadline, we were all trying to figure out a way to get Vazquez from the Expos. Now that he's with Yankees, he is a question mark in many peoples minds. It's strange how perceptions can change after 1 season. Its what makes him so intriguing. Then again look how long it took the Yanks to get rid of Weaver who turned things right back around in LA. He just got better and better for the Dodgers (I always was a fan of Weaver though). Problem is the Yanks get these guys, somehow they fail (whether its poor arm slots or all mental from the pressure) but the Yanks give them such huge contracts that you take such a huge risk on them. We can only hope Contreras turns out like Weaver did for the Dodgers. If Jose can put up the numbers Weaver did in LA this past season, I'll be exstatic. Both have similar styles, imo. However, Vazquez always looked to have major upside, but part of me thinks he could really have a messed up arm cause the Expos overworked him quite a bit. It does help that he put up good numbers for half a season in New York. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 He had one year were he had a 1.51 g/f ratio which is pretty much in the middle of the road. His 1.08 career g/f ratio scares the s*** out of me because anything hit in the air here seems like it can go. Remember though, their is some talk of the fences moving back by as early as the start of this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 I would have not wanted him either way to be honest. G/f ratio in my opinion should be one of the determining factors in getting a pitcher for this team. You have to admit, though, that this past season has made the GB/FB ratio much more important in you eyes. The Cell wasn't that bad before the upper deck restructuring done last winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 You have to admit, though, that this past season has made the GB/FB ratio much more important in you eyes. The Cell wasn't that bad before the upper deck restructuring done last winter. I still say part of the horrid numbers this past season stem from the Sox pitching staff being lousy and the offense containing a lot of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 You have to admit, though, that this past season has made the GB/FB ratio much more important in you eyes. The Cell wasn't that bad before the upper deck restructuring done last winter. The park has been known more as a hitters park the last several years than anything. So i still would have looked at that closely. But most likely not as intensely as i am now that we have one of the very best hitters parks in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 HR Allowed: 1998: 31 1999: 20 2000: 24 2001: 24 2002: 28 2003: 28 2004: 33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 HR Allowed: 1998: 31 1999: 20 2000: 24 2001: 24 2002: 28 2003: 28 2004: 33 Billy Koch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 HR Allowed: 1998: 31 1999: 20 2000: 24 2001: 24 2002: 28 2003: 28 2004: 33 I honestly think if he pitched here he would give up around fifty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 I dunno, Yankee stadium can be really nice for left handed hitters. But that beauty is cancelled out by the deep power alleys for righties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 I dunno, Yankee stadium can be really nice for left handed hitters. But that beauty is cancelled out by the deep power alleys for righties. Well 80%-85% of hitters are right handed. Either way he gives up alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 I honestly think if he pitched here he would give up around fifty. Considering that Mark Buehrle gave up 22 HR in USCF this past year (and 33 overall), you could be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 If we were going to get Gordon from the Yankees, why sign Hermanson? Does not compute. Also, Garland is as likely to have a better year in 2005 than Javy Vazquez, as Vazquez is over Garland. This trade does not make sense to me. If Garland is included, I don't like it. It's that simple. Vazquez has put up one era in the last 5 years that is worse than any season that Garland has put up since he became a full time starter. I would have a hard time ever taking Garland over Vaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Vazquez has put up one era in the last 5 years that is worse than any season that Garland has put up since he became a full time starter. I would have a hard time ever taking Garland over Vaz. Straight up .... right now .... No. I agree. But, for the $$$$ are you going to get that much more from Javy? 6 more wins, tops. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Vazquez has put up one era in the last 5 years that is worse than any season that Garland has put up since he became a full time starter. I would have a hard time ever taking Garland over Vaz. Vazquez is a flyball pitcher who wouldn't have good numbers at the Cell at all, think he had the third highest flyball/groundball ratio in the major leagues last season. For the money he's making, Garland and Vazquez could put up very similar stats if they both pitched for the Sox in 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Straight up .... right now .... No. I agree. But, for the $$$$ are you going to get that much more from Javy? 6 more wins, tops. Maybe. 6 more wins has the very big possibility of being the difference of 2nd place for the 4th year in a row or actually winning the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 One thing people forget about Javy and his g/f is that he pitched poorly this year. It amkes a lot of numbers look bad when you stink. He wasn't bad because of his g/f necessarily, but rather it was indicative of him being bad. I expect better things out of him wherever he ends up this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Vazquez is a flyball pitcher who wouldn't have good numbers at the Cell at all, think he had the third highest flyball/groundball ratio in the major leagues last season. For the money he's making, Garland and Vazquez could put up very similar stats if they both pitched for the Sox in 2005. I'm sorry, this argument is getting tiring. So do you have a stat that tells us how many homers Vazquez would've allowed at USCF, or are you just assuming because he had more flyballs hit to the warning track at Yankee Stadium? He may be less of a groundball pitcher, but he still allows fewer baserunners, and he stirkes people out (which is why he allows less balls in play!) Carrer: Garland GO/AO 1.3, WHIP 1.44 Vazquez GO/AO .995, WHIP 1.28 The question is, who is more likely to prevent the ball from entering play? I'll take Vazquez, and maybe you should stop assuming that every flyball he gives up will sail over the fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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