Dick Allen Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 If he was treating Frank, then no. Frank's doctor does not work for the Sox. Frank's doctor is in Las Vegas. According to Weil, go to the Tribune sports section, page 4, he was treating Frank. Frank was the guy who brought Weil and Magglio together. Frank may have a doctor in Las Vegas, but Weil also treated him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Correct me if I'm wrong, but the team doctors just spend part of their time with the team -- they have an outside practice as well, I think. Since they obviously know sports medicine fairly well, it doesn't seem strange that they would be asked for advice from other patients, or that they can reasonably separate team business from other business. Not speaking for her, but I think this is the point Steff is trying to get across. Most of these doctors have contracted working relationships with baseball teams, which means the team refers medical issues to certain doctors in accordance with their expertise. The doctors are not employees of the White Sox as I understand it. It's a fine line, but it is a distinct line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Correct me if I'm wrong, but the team doctors just spend part of their time with the team -- they have an outside practice as well, I think. Since they obviously know sports medicine fairly well, it doesn't seem strange that they would be asked for advice from other patients, or that they can reasonably separate team business from other business. The guy is a team doctor of the White Sox. Magglio played for the White Sox. I understand your point, but if he's on the team's medical staff, and he's advising or referring players to other doctors, he is representing the team IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 This is going to be a whine. Still, I really wish all the Maggs talk would just go away. I don't think anyone who finds total fault on either side (and many have suggested as such) know what they are talking about. It's like trying to lay the blame on one member of a marriage when there is a divorce. However, if my future wife ever gets Scott Boras I'm going into hiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 The guy is a team doctor of the White Sox. Magglio played for the White Sox. I understand your point, but if he's on the team's medical staff, and he's advising or referring players to other doctors, he is representing the team IMO. If he was "representing the team" when he referred the other doctor, then he should have reported the results of his consultation to the team. If he was acting as an independant consultant, then that wouldn't be necessary. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 This is going to be a whine. Still, I really wish all the Maggs talk would just go away. I don't think anyone who finds total fault on either side (and many have suggested as such) know what they are talking about. It's like trying to lay the blame on one member of a marriage when there is a divorce. However, if my future wife ever gets Scott Boras I'm going into hiding. Thanks for the laugh. I think this thread needed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 (edited) The guy is a team doctor of the White Sox. Magglio played for the White Sox. I understand your point, but if he's on the team's medical staff, and he's advising or referring players to other doctors, he is representing the team IMO. Well as Bill Clinton would say, "we have to define what team doctor is" Edited December 10, 2004 by Texsox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 According to Weil, go to the Tribune sports section, page 4, he was treating Frank. Frank was the guy who brought Weil and Magglio together. Frank may have a doctor in Las Vegas, but Weil also treated him. I'm sure he may have.. as I don't think Frank's doctor leaves his practice to be at Frank's side 24/7. I don't recall that being the issue.. at least it's not to me. My issue remains Maggs did not inform the Sox of his plans to have additional surgery. According to Weil he was not employed by the Sox at the time he gave that information. To me.. that negates the "Sox gave Maggs the doctor's name" accusation. Not to mention the Sox trainer - who IS employed by the Sox - didn't know s*** about any of this. I trust Herm a hellova lot more than I trust a hired hand, or Maggs, or Boras. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I heard directly from those that would know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 If he was "representing the team" when he referred the other doctor, then he should have reported the results of his consultation to the team. If he was acting as an independant consultant, then that wouldn't be necessary. IMO Bingo. If the Sox were signing a check to him at the time he gave Maggs the name.. then his ass should be fired for not disclosing that information to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 If he was "representing the team" when he referred the other doctor, then he should have reported the results of his consultation to the team. If he was acting as an independant consultant, then that wouldn't be necessary. IMO I think the team should have stayed away from all health matters as soon as he was out for the remainder of his contract. Make the player responsible for his own health. That way, if it doesn't work out, he has only himself to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 The guy is a team doctor of the White Sox. Magglio played for the White Sox. I understand your point, but if he's on the team's medical staff, and he's advising or referring players to other doctors, he is representing the team IMO. DA, I think the point being, this doctor is not an employee of the White Sox. He is the doctor the White Sox contract with if their players have foot/ankle problems. It's a bit misleading when he's called the "White Sox team podiatrist" because that intimates he's a White Sox employee. My understanding is, the only Sox employees who can be considered "medical staff" are the trainers, like Herm S., etc. It's very possible Ordonez went to this Dr. Weil on his own, i.e. to Weil's private practice. At that point, the doctor-patient relationship takes precedence over any relationship between Weil and the White Sox. There are federal patient rights confidentiality laws which address this issue. The White Sox can't force Dr. Weil to tell them about every consultation that was not referred directly by them. That is, very simply, against those laws. If this article is correct, Boras is telling a half truth here, and protecting his client. It's shady, but to be expected in the business of baseball. If Williams or Reinsdorf or any Sox executive tried to explain all this to the general public, it would only cause a bigger mess. I don't think people are willing to grasp the concept that an employee can confidentially go to a doctor who happens to have a relationship with the employer, and the employer knows nothing about it. Patients rights laws are very stringent on this whole topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 If he was "representing the team" when he referred the other doctor, then he should have reported the results of his consultation to the team. If he was acting as an independant consultant, then that wouldn't be necessary. IMO Here's the gray area. Magglio requested he not notify the White Sox. If Magglio hadn't requested that, he would have notified them. So, when he gave the referral to Magglio, he had every intention of notifying the White Sox, but didn't after the request. Once the story got out, he did tell the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 The guy is a team doctor of the White Sox. Magglio played for the White Sox. I understand your point, but if he's on the team's medical staff, and he's advising or referring players to other doctors, he is representing the team IMO. Maybe, I don't know how the agreement works. If anyone here knows, please post. But I don't see anything unethical in running a practice like this -- when the Sox call and say they need some medical help, you go and fulfill the contract. But you don't refuse patients b/c you know them from other contexts, you treat them as you would any of your patients. I would imagine, if there are standard provisions against this sort of thing, that they're spelled out in the contract. So if Weil stepped over his bounds, I don't think he'll be the Sox team podiatrist much longer. Barring that, I see no reason not to believe him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 My issue remains Maggs did not inform the Sox of his plans to have additional surgery. we all knew about the surgery before it happened (via bruce levine). how did he find out? the doctor didn't tell him so that leaves magglio or the sox told levine. magglio sure as hell wouldn't have any incentive to leak news that would hurt his bargaining position...so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Bingo. If the Sox were signing a check to him at the time he gave Maggs the name.. then his ass should be fired for not disclosing that information to them. The terms of the contract should have been enforced. I assume they were. Sign the contract and live with the terms. damn where is ncorgbl with his insider owner info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 I think the team should have stayed away from all health matters as soon as he was out for the remainder of his contract. Make the player responsible for his own health. That way, if it doesn't work out, he has only himself to blame. They had, at the very least, potential darft picks at stake. Of course, if they did what you suggest, then we'd be hearing that Sox abandoned Maggs when his career was at stake and wouldn't even take an interest in his health while still under contract to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 My goal here is simple to try and have the sox nation see the truth about JR and the Sox.. You lost me at "Sox Nation". That whole "Nation" bulls*** makes me want to vomit. I'll leave that crap for the Red Sox, and for "Cubbie Nation"..... :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Here's the gray area. Magglio requested he not notify the White Sox. If Magglio hadn't requested that, he would have notified them. So, when he gave the referral to Magglio, he had every intention of notifying the White Sox, but didn't after the request. Once the story got out, he did tell the White Sox. Oh hell... you were there and heard him say this..? Why the hell didn't you tell us that in the first place..? :banghead My apologies Dick. Regardless.. Maggs had additional surgery without telling his employer.. and his dishonesty is now biting him in the ass. Too bad, so sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 we all knew about the surgery before it happened (via bruce levine). how did he find out? the doctor didn't tell him so that leaves magglio or the sox told levine. magglio sure as hell wouldn't have any incentive to leak news that would hurt his bargaining position...so... No. The surgery was late July, early August. It was reported in (iirc) October... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 They had, at the very least, potential darft picks at stake. Of course, if they did what you suggest, then we'd be hearing that Sox abandoned Maggs when his career was at stake and wouldn't even take an interest in his health while still under contract to them. There was almost no way for anyone to win in all this. Timing was everything. If he was under contract for 2005, this would be a whole different discussion. I assume all this is covered by either the CBA or the player's individual contract. It is a foreseeable situation, that has happened before. I do not believe either party is ethically bound to do more than what was agreed to. The contract seems to offer an unfair advantage to the player. But then again, everything in baseball seems to be tilted towards the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 No. The surgery was late July, early August. It was reported in (iirc) October... that's not how I recall it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 DA, I think the point being, this doctor is not an employee of the White Sox. He is the doctor the White Sox contract with if their players have foot/ankle problems. It's a bit misleading when he's called the "White Sox team podiatrist" because that intimates he's a White Sox employee. My understanding is, the only Sox employees who can be considered "medical staff" are the trainers, like Herm S., etc. It's very possible Ordonez went to this Dr. Weil on his own, i.e. to Weil's private practice. At that point, the doctor-patient relationship takes precedence over any relationship between Weil and the White Sox. There are federal patient rights confidentiality laws which address this issue. The White Sox can't force Dr. Weil to tell them about every consultation that was not referred directly by them. That is, very simply, against those laws. If this article is correct, Boras is telling a half truth here, and protecting his client. It's shady, but to be expected in the business of baseball. If Williams or Reinsdorf or any Sox executive tried to explain all this to the general public, it would only cause a bigger mess. I don't think people are willing to grasp the concept that an employee can confidentially go to a doctor who happens to have a relationship with the employer, and the employer knows nothing about it. Patients rights laws are very stringent on this whole topic. I am not saying Magglio and Boras are innocent. I am saying the White Sox haven't been totally straight with their version of the events the past 9 months, and we see another great player leave with bridges burned beyond repair. I understand Weil is not technically"employed" by the White Sox. But his relationship with the team would preclude him to advise Magglio without there being a connection to the team. I understand doctor/patient priviledge, what I don't understand is why Weil is now giving out all the details of the surgery if that is the reason he didn't tell the White Sox. I have a feeling he won't be the team podiatrist for much longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 There was almost no way for anyone to win in all this. Timing was everything. If he was under contract for 2005, this would be a whole different discussion. I assume all this is covered by either the CBA or the player's individual contract. It is a foreseeable situation, that has happened before. I do not believe either party is ethically bound to do more than what was agreed to. The contract seems to offer an unfair advantage to the player. But then again, everything in baseball seems to be tilted towards the players. I agree. This seems to be a lose/lose situation for all parties, as a direct result of timing of that injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Healthy or injured, he was leaving after this season. This actually is a nice smokescreen for both the player and the club. Hopefully we have another .300 hitter waiting in the wings for a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 10, 2004 Share Posted December 10, 2004 Oh hell... you were there and heard him say this..? Why the hell didn't you tell us that in the first place..? :banghead My apologies Dick. Regardless.. Maggs had additional surgery without telling his employer.. and his dishonesty is now biting him in the ass. Too bad, so sad. No need to be sarcastic, I'm just going by what Dr. Weil is quoted as saying in today's papers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.