Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Some of you need to accept SPOD was a fluke and nothing more. Because you say so? Ummm, no, I think I'll go with talent evaluators who are employed by major league baseball teams. Nothing personal, but I think you fall in love with certain players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I have heard ''player to be named later'' over 100 times on the radio. I am not making it up. If it wasn't they would have just named him already. You heard it, that's great. I heard what I heard. On the White Sox web site, it says "player to be named". Not going to argue semantics here, but for me it's reason enough to sit back, wait, and see what happens before trashing the deal - as you've done. Your opinion certainly, but the final hand hasn't been played on this trade. Edit: there can be several good reasons why the 3rd player hasn't been named. Maybe the Sox have to clear a roster space. Maybe the GM's can't get ahold of the player. Maybe there's a pending physical, or medical exam results in transit. Maybe there's a contract issue being discussed with Player A, and if it doesn't work out, they've already agreed on Player B. Minor leaguers couldn't be named before the Rule 5, but that's over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 You heard it, that's great. I heard what I heard. On the White Sox web site, it says "player to be named". Not going to argue semantics here, but for me it's reason enough to sit back, wait, and see what happens before trashing the deal - as you've done. Your opinion certainly, but the final hand hasn't been played on this trade. Player to be named is the same exact thing as player to be named later. I have seen it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Player to be names a player to be named later is the same exact thing. I have seen it before. Fine, whatever. We'll see who the player is whenever we see it, and then we can all evaluate the trade ... for those of us who haven't trashed it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 How can anyone say this guy is a true leadoff hitter? His obp was .313, he struck out 105 times. He should bat ninth. But whether or not the trade was any good can't be determined until we find out who the ptbnl is and what KW and JR do with the extra money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Podzilla hit .274 on the road last year with a .330 OBP(Ok, not good), only .213 at home, and road average is a far better predictor of a player on a new team than home, and since USCF plays well to hitters, he should have no problem getting a high BA and solid OBP, the strikeouts are a problem, but I don't see why he can't lead off. Against the Twins, albeit a small sample size...556 OBP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Jim there is a logical reason to believe qwerty too. Yesterday the sox 40-man stood at 40 players -- Then Wright was gone, to make room for a 2-for-one trade. There's no room on the 40-man to add another ML player. Though I would expect a signing at the very least with the money saved. Reynoso looks like he'd be the odd-man out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 This is a good trade. Lee for a leadoff hitter /difference maker on the bases [should be closer to .300 than his 2004 numbers], another very solid bullpen arm, and probably another solid, #3 SP [with the difference in salaries]. Filling two holes with low salaried players helps the Sox get a lot of flexibility to address the other holes at SP and the IF. Anytime you can fill 3 spots on the roster [not bench players but big contributors]for 1 player, that's a plus. The sox also didn't have to raid the farm system with the big names. [Though some may be dealt to get a top player. At least it gives the sox the option to make a move later] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Jim there is a logical reason to believe qwerty too. Yesterday the sox 40-man stood at 40 players -- Then Wright was gone, to make room for a 2-for-one trade. There's no room on the 40-man to add another ML player. Though I would expect a signing at the very least with the money saved. Reynoso looks like he'd be the odd-man out. Could be. Any reason why they wouldn't move one guy off the roster now, let's say Reynoso for the sake of discussion? And then move another guy off later, i.e. when/if a FA is signed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The rumor is that the PTBNL is Mitch Stetter, a 23 yr old lefty reliever who someone said was about the 42nd best propsect on Milwaukee. If this is the case, I'm not so excited. Low A: 4-0 1.70 ERA 12BB & 57K in 53 innings High A: 1-4 8.15 ERA 14BB & 29K in 38.2 innings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Could be. Any reason why they wouldn't move one guy off the roster now, let's say Reynoso for the sake of discussion? And then move another guy off later, i.e. when/if a FA is signed? Maybe KW has a 2 for 1 trade he's trying to get done. That's the only thing I could think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Don't forget that Stetter, 24, is very old for that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Don't forget that Stetter, 24, is very old for that level. And very crappy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Fine, whatever. We'll see who the player is whenever we see it, and then we can all evaluate the trade ... for those of us who haven't trashed it already. What am i saying that pissed you off so much? I just corrected you that player to be named is the same as player to be named later, not trying to piss you off. I think you are one of the best posters on soxtalk so that would be a silly thing for me to do. We may nto agree all the time but we do understand where the other is coming from. Also, would you be happy if we just get podsednik, vizcaino, and this mitch stetter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 What am i saying that pissed you off so much? I just corrected you that player to be named is the same as player to be named later, not trying to piss you off. I think you are one of the best posters on soxtalk so that would be a silly thing for me to do. We may nto agree all the time but we do understand where the other is coming from. Also, would you be happy if we just get podsednik, vizcaino, and this mitch stetter? I'm not pissed off. If I were, you'd know it. Just because you say PTBNL and "player to be named" are one and the same, you'll excuse me for preferring to sit back and wait, seeing as I heard it will be a major leaguer. I am having a harder and harder time evaluating every single trade on its own merit. They are trying to reshape the entire offense. As such, my own preference is to wait and look at the bigger picture. One big picture is April 1, the other big picture is July 31. That is frustrating to me and other White Sox fans because we want the whole team shaped up and ready to go right now, in December. I completely identify with that. If this trade were only Lee for Podsednik and Vizcaino, my feeling would be this; we gave up the most talented player but I understand why we did it. What we've done hasn't worked. We need speed and a super strong bullpen, both Spod and Vizcaino fit the bill. If it's some fringe 24 year old non prospect, I'm not thrilled but it doesn't ruin my opinion of this being a good deal for both teams. I am a little biased because I lived in Milwaukee for a few years and want the Brewers to do well (good fans up there + stick it to the Cubs). I'm in no way shape or form guaranteeing the White Sox will get a major league guy to complete this trade, but I find it very telling that's what was mentioned on the radio. If I hadn't heard that, I would be assuming the same thing you are, a minor leaguer. The Score came out first and said Spod, Ginter, and a player later. ESPN1000, at the same time, said Spod, Viz, and a player later. Some on this site are so definitive, when we don't know for sure. You said Spod was a one year fluke, very definitively. That's just your opinion. Nothing wrong with that at all. But when I hear it'll be a major leaguer and am told by you it won't be because a PTBNL or player to be named is always a minor leaguer, that is why I say let's just sit back and see what happens. All I posted was what I heard, nothing more. I don't know who the 3rd player will be and from what level than you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 i posted this elsewhere, but: "Carlos Lee fills our biggest offseason need," Brewers general manager Bob Melvin said. "He is the perfect fit with Geoff Jenkins and Lyle Overbay in the middle of our order. We knew that we needed to give up two good players to make this transaction happen." assuming vizcaino is the other good player, that doesn't say much for the PTBNL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The PTBNL is likely Mitch Stetter, a LHP reliever who's 24 yrs old and not exactly a top prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Some on this site are so definitive, when we don't know for sure. You said Spod was a one year fluke, very definitively. That's just your opinion. Nothing wrong with that at all. But when I hear it'll be a major leaguer and am told by you it won't be because a PTBNL or player to be named is always a minor leaguer, that is why I say let's just sit back and see what happens. All I posted was what I heard, nothing more. I don't know who the 3rd player will be and from what level than you do. Some people do not seem to like that i keep saying he will not be good here but i have given my reasons which i think support it pretty well so i am happy. What channel did you hear that it will be a major league player again? I believe you, i just forgot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Maybe KW has a 2 for 1 trade he's trying to get done. That's the only thing I could think of. I think the more likely reason was that he wanted to have a shot at the Rule V draft if one of the guys they liked was still available come their selection. Whoever they liked wasn't their, and they didn't make the pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Mitch Stetter Played his college ball at Indiana State and his struggles in high A ball came when he was moved to the rotation. He pitched primarily as a reliever in low a. But he's very old for that level. It was his first full season though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Some people do not seem to like that i keep saying he will not be good here but i have given my reasons which i think support it pretty well so i am happy. What channel did you hear that it will be a major league player again? I believe you, i just forgot. ESPN1000 is where I heard it. Also, on Podsednik, do you realize he wasn't much of a base stealer in his minor league career? He worked hard and taught himself how to be an elite base stealer. I don't have his minor league numbers but I don't think he stole many bases in the minors. I like guys who work hard to improve, especially if it's in an area the team needs so badly. Carlos Lee worked hard at his defense, this guy worked hard on his basestealing and he knows he's got to get back to singles hitting vs. always trying to drive the ball. He said at the end of the year he knows his OBP is one of the most important things. No way do I write him off as a one year fluke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Socks Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 We gave up a .300 hitter with 30 HR and 100 RBI for a .250 hitter who steals 70 bases. And we need offense. I don't get it. But we kept Anderson and Sweeney, so it could be worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I’m fixing a hole where the rain gets in And stops my mind from wandering Where it will go. I’m filling in the cracks that ran through the door And kept my mind from wandering Where it will go. And it really doesn’t matter if I’m wrong I’m right Where I belong I’m right Where I belong. See the people standing there who Disagree and never win And wonder why they don’t get in my door. I’m painting the room in a colorful way And when my mind is wandering There I will go. And it doesn’t really matter if I’m wrong I’m right Where I belong I’m right Where I belong. Silly people run around they worry me And never ask me why they don’t get past my door. I’m taking the time for a number of things That weren’t important yesterday And I still go. I’m fixing a hole where the rain gets in And stops my mind from wandering Where it will go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 ESPN1000 is where I heard it. Also, on Podsednik, do you realize he wasn't much of a base stealer in his minor league career? He worked hard and taught himself how to be an elite base stealer. I don't have his minor league numbers but I don't think he stole many bases in the minors. I like guys who work hard to improve, especially if it's in an area the team needs so badly. Carlos Lee worked hard at his defense, this guy worked hard on his basestealing and he knows he's got to get back to singles hitting vs. always trying to drive the ball. He said at the end of the year he knows his OBP is one of the most important things. No way do I write him off as a one year fluke. He stole a decent amount for the amount of games he played. Here are his minor league numbers. http://www.sports-wired.com/profiles/PO/tbc7586.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 He stole a decent amount for the amount of games he played. Here are his minor league numbers. http://www.sports-wired.com/profiles/PO/tbc7586.asp Thx for the stats, did not know where to find them. Highest SB # was 35 in 125 games. Not close to what he did in 2003 and 2004 at the major league level. He's improved in that skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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