YASNY Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Read it for your self. Happy trails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 There seemed to be some minor rumors flying around about Carlos and his attitude. At least this time KW didn't bad mouth him after he left the organization this time I guess, but at the same time, Carlos has done nothing but produce for us, and hopefully he'll continue to do so for the Brewers. And yes, Buerhle and Konerko do seem the be the clubhouse leaders on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 And no everyone, I'm not Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 And no everyone, I'm not Joe What about Phil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 good article, taught me something new. i hadn't seen those stats before, but they are certainly startling. i liked carlos and will miss him, but when it comes to the Sox finally winning it has nothing to do with whether or not we fans like a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 There had been whispers of a problem, or problems. with Carlos from time to time. You never know what's really going on behind the scenes, unless you are Steff. Carlos at times hustled his ass off out there, and then at other times didn't seem to have his head entirely in the game ..... like watching a "homer" that ain't quite one. Considering that this was the reporter and not the Sox spilling the beans, you have to believe there's some truths here. If this is the case, the Sox are better off after making this trade. Perhaps this is why the Sox didn't quite receive the value for Lee that we thought they should have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Makes the trade look like a downright steal. With a guy like Podsednik around, who is known to study video, do the little things, work hard because he doesn't have the natural ability as a guy like Lee, the atmosphere in the clubhouse should definitely improve. What message does a trade like this send to the players? That team play will get rewarded, and selfish play will get you a one-way ticket out of town. What I'm especially glad of is that mgmt [KW, probably because of Ozzie and Joey Cora] seem to have a good sense on the pulse of the clubhouse. this means they can add players who will be a good fit, not just talent wise but personality wise, "baseball makeup-wise". KW has seemed blind at times, or else he'd have corrected the problems sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Read it for your self. Happy trails. and everyone wanted to get rid of konerko over lee....including me. But after looking at that article and realizing the stats and the type of player Lee is...i'm glad we still have konerko and i like the deal that much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Wow, what a hatchet job. I hate to see it happen, especially since I can almost guarentee that the last quote was taken out of context. Who seriously saids, that they hate everyone? Yeah Carlos had some problems, but this is a bulls*** hatchet job for the most part, that did need to be done. :fyou Cowley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvjeremylv Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Regardless of what kind of attitude Carlos has/had, this was a very good trade by the White Sox. We got a very solid CF & lead-off hitter, as well as a hard throwing reliever. We were in desperate need of a lead-off hitter, and every team can use a little extra bullpen help. If Podsednik can just hit .260 or .270 and have an OBP of .330 or so (which he should be able to do, I believe), he'll have a great chance at stealing 70 like he did in 2004, and that should translate into well over 100 runs scored on this team. Plus he can probably *gasp* bunt a runner over if need-be. Imagine that! Lee was a pretty good hitter, but like the article points out, he is a very selfish player, and that's not what winning teams have. Winning teams have guys who are willing to sacrifice their own stats for the good of the team. Plus it frees up a few million for us to go after a starting pitcher. Love the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Hmmm....wonder what our collective reply to this article would have been had it been written by Moronotti? I hate when this kind of story is written after a guy is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Hmmm....wonder what our collective reply to this article would have been had it been written by Moronotti? I hate when this kind of story is written after a guy is gone. Honestly I think Cowley writing this article pisses me off more, because he is basically a legitimate sportswriter when compared to Kotex-boy. Cowley sounds bitter, like he has a personal problem with Carlos, and this is his revenge. This is pretty low IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 and everyone wanted to get rid of konerko over lee....including me. But after looking at that article and realizing the stats and the type of player Lee is...i'm glad we still have konerko and i like the deal that much more. Me too That is some really damning stuff in Cowley's article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Hmmm....wonder what our collective reply to this article would have been had it been written by Moronotti? I hate when this kind of story is written after a guy is gone. to write this type of article, you actually have to go to games, leave the pressbox on occasion and go down to the lockerroom. ESPN Moronotti has advanced in his career, such that he doesn't have to do research anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Joe Cowley is currently fighting a life-threatening illness. You'd think he would have better use of his time than to rip a guy who was just traded. I also doubt Buerhle is too happy with his reference in the article. Maybe its entirely true, Terry Boers a couple of years ago said the Sox had 2 cancers on their team, Frank and Carlos, but Joe should have just left it alone. If it was a story worthy of being printed why was it written after Carlos was gone? That said, Joe is in my thoughts and prayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Honestly I think Cowley writing this article pisses me off more, because he is basically a legitimate sportswriter when compared to Kotex-boy. Cowley sounds bitter, like he has a personal problem with Carlos, and this is his revenge. This is pretty low IMO. Good point. Cowley is a writer, Moron is a s***-stirrer. I was just kinda speculating on the anti-KotexBoy fervor we Sox fans have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I think it was inevitable that a story like this was going to come up however. I mean taking away the money from the deal, it's definitely in favour of Milwaulkee, and there's always going to be questions asked, when a player from our team is traded. Like couldn't Jeremy Reed hit with that wrist of his, or couldn't Miguel Olivo call a game right etc. Although I will say I'm suprised it's come from Cowley and not Mariotti, but the Southtown usually seem to report a lot of stories and info that isn't in Chicago's major papers, or at least that's the general feeling I've had when I've read the sports reports most days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvjeremylv Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I mean taking away the money from the deal, it's definitely in favour of Milwaulkee By doing that, you're ignoring possibly the most important result of the trade. The Sox now have about $5-$6M to use on a starting pitcher. How can you just toss that aside and say Milwaukee got the better deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Wow, what a hatchet job. I hate to see it happen, especially since I can almost guarentee that the last quote was taken out of context. Who seriously saids, that they hate everyone? Yeah Carlos had some problems, but this is a bulls*** hatchet job for the most part, that did need to be done. :fyou Cowley I'm surprised more writers hadn't talked about Carlos before, and that stuff like this didn't come out sooner. But to blame Cowley is a little much. Most likely he couldn't write a "hatchet job" while Lee was a member of the Sox. But if this is the truth, what exactly is the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Good point. Cowley is a writer, Moron is a s***-stirrer. I was just kinda speculating on the anti-KotexBoy fervor we Sox fans have. No doubt there is an anti-Kotex sentiment here, but IMO with good reason. Within short periods of time, he will take seemingly contradictary opinions, basically just to sell papers and get ratings. I have no respect for any "journalist" who falls in this category. Consequentally, I don't really listen to much the guys saids anymore. Cowley is a different story. He is a decent sportswriter who goes to games and understands the dynamics of a ballclub. That's why an article like this upsets me all of the more. It really didn't need to be done, and it comes off as petty and vindictive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 By doing that, you're ignoring possibly the most important result of the trade. The Sox now have about $5-$6M to use on a starting pitcher. How can you just toss that aside and say Milwaukee got the better deal? Realistically that $5 or $6 million alone isn't going to be enough for us to get either Perez or Clement in my mind. Clement will probably get somewhere in between $24 and $27 million over 3 years from the Angels, Red Sox or the White Sox, while Perez could sign for a million or two less. And then we've still got holes at catcher and second base / shortstop they could still do with some upgrading. It all depends on where JR sets the payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 The fact that Cowley is a respected sportswriter carries a ceratin amount of weight with me and this column does as well. The "hatchet job" that mariotti did on the Sox for making this trade just may have been the catalyst that inspired Cowley to spill his guts about the Carlos situation. And call it a hunch, but I'd bet Cowley checked with Buehrle before using his name in that manner. He never actually quoted Mark, but he did report on his observations. I may be wrong on this, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvjeremylv Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Realistically that $5 or $6 million alone isn't going to be enough for us to get either Perez or Clement in my mind. Clement will probably get somewhere in between $24 and $27 million over 3 years from the Angels, Red Sox or the White Sox, while Perez could sign for a million or two less. And then we've still got holes at catcher and second base / shortstop they could still do with some upgrading. It all depends on where JR sets the payroll. No, $5-$6M alone won't reel in a guy like Clement, but I think that there's a much better chance of JR ponying up the extra $3-$4M now that he's saved money by dumping Carlos. Plus I think we could get a guy like Odalis Perez for right around $5M a year. Maybe a 3-year, $15M deal or so. And this team is going to have holes somewhere - all teams do. But the one place a team CANNOT afford to have holes is in starting pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 If there is a $3 million difference in annual salary between Perez and Clement, I'd go with the cheaper one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 No, $5-$6M alone won't reel in a guy like Clement, but I think that there's a much better chance of JR ponying up the extra $3-$4M now that he's saved money by dumping Carlos. Plus I think we could get a guy like Odalis Perez for right around $5M a year. Maybe a 3-year, $15M deal or so. And this team is going to have holes somewhere - all teams do. But the one place a team CANNOT afford to have holes is in starting pitching. Jim Bowden has said already that he offered Odalis Perez $20 million over 3 years, and he didn't think that would be enough to sign him. Basically it's because of the inflated market for starting pitching from Kris Benson's contract. It's funny that a guy like Derek Lowe could end up with less money than Matt Clement, which you definitely wouldn't have picked after the world series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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