Whitewashed in '05 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 So one time on the DL with Tommy John and now the guy is injuried prone.. WTF we traded for Contreas, who is worse off than AJ. So now you want to add Burnett to our rotation in which Contreras is in so we can have Burnett injured and Contreras as well? Wouldn't it suck if they both went down? I don't want such big risks in our rotation. I will settle for Perez or Clement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 So now you want to add Burnett to our rotation in which Contreras is in so we can have Burnett injured and Contreras as well? Wouldn't it suck if they both went down? I don't want such big risks in our rotation. I will settle for Perez or Clement. Clement and his slider aren't exactly the safest injury risks out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxer83080 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 If you are talking to me i am just saying that what someone does in the post season should not really have a large affect on how they get paid. Hey you should tell that to Scott Boras, in regards to Carlos Beltran...It shouldn't be that way, but it is.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 So now you want to add Burnett to our rotation in which Contreras is in so we can have Burnett injured and Contreras as well? Wouldn't it suck if they both went down? I don't want such big risks in our rotation. I will settle for Perez or Clement. Clement is too streaky of a player for me, there is a reason 2 teams have given up on him so far...why do you think that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Keith Foulke did choke in big games. The keyword there bieng did ... as in past tense. He's a solid veteran gutsy closer now. It comes with maturity and experience. (Which is I why I don't want to give up on Garland yet). AJ Burnett is a flamethrowing horse. He's over the TJ surgery now. Let's get him. God! I can't believe I'm agreeing with Anthrax! Do you have some examples of these ''big games'' that he blew? I think every game that he blew people label as a ''big game.'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 So let me get this staright. You want to compare Odalis Perez and Keith Foulke. One is a closer and one is a starter. Fine. Foulke did get beat in 2000 but was good in 03 and superb for a world champion in 04. Perez was beaten in limited work before 04 and was absolutely pounded in less than limited work in 04. Is your argument that because Keith Foulke had a bad series and pitched well eyars later that Odalis will do the same? There's no connection there. I watch Perez's two playoff starts and he wasn't beaten because his stuff was no good, he was pounded because he was rattled. One of the guys in this argument has a closer's mentality and the other one hasn't shown mental toughness yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 On another point, why would Jose get hurt? He's only been in America two years but he has stayed healthy. Why would you lump him in with AJ? Also, Aj will win 20 games this year in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 The Expos had a rookie that went 3-0 for them at the end of the season. 1.54 ERA I wonder if we have any interest guy's name is Jon Rauch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Clement is too streaky of a player for me, there is a reason 2 teams have given up on him so far...why do you think that is? Cubs gave up on him because they could put the $8mil + he was looking for to better use, and have in house replacements already there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxer83080 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Aj will win 20 games this year in my opinion. If he stays healthy...I don't have his stats by me..When was the last time Aj lasted a full season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 So let me get this staright. You want to compare Odalis Perez and Keith Foulke. One is a closer and one is a starter. Fine. Foulke did get beat in 2000 but was good in 03 and superb for a world champion in 04. Perez was beaten in limited work before 04 and was absolutely pounded in less than limited work in 04. Is your argument that because Keith Foulke had a bad series and pitched well eyars later that Odalis will do the same? There's no connection there. I watch Perez's two playoff starts and he wasn't beaten because his stuff was no good, he was pounded because he was rattled. One of the guys in this argument has a closer's mentality and the other one hasn't shown mental toughness yet. I'm not predicting squat. I'm just saying that if you draw the conclusion about Perez, then you would have had to draw the same conclusion about Foulke. And you would have been wrong. Pitchers just fluctuate this way, starters too. Don't believe it? -- Look at Andy Pettitte, series by series. It's not been unusual for him to have an era over 10 in a series, other times he's been below 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 If he stays healthy...I don't have his stats by me..When was the last time Aj lasted a full season? 2002 he pitched 204.1 innings with a 3.30 era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 he made over 30 starts in 02. However, his injury in 03 was so severe that it takes over a year so its sort of a double-whammy. Boy though did he look good around August of last season. His stuff is up there with Prior-Wood-Beckett-Schmidt, you name it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Do you have some examples of these ''big games'' that he blew? I think every game that he blew people label as a ''big game.'' The 2000 playoffs for starters. He blew a few big ones against the Twins. The one that was mentioned earlier against the Yankees. You are ignoring the point I made where I said he was NOW a gutsy veteran closer. I'm not bashing KF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 he made over 30 starts in 02. However, his injury in 03 was so severe that it takes over a year so its sort of a double-whammy. Boy though did he look good around August of last season. His stuff is up there with Prior-Wood-Beckett-Schmidt, you name it. 29 starts according to espn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I didn't draw the same conclusion with Foulke. Listen, Odalis Perez was their #1 starter. He laid an egg twice. I'm not saying that I don't want him on the Sox. I really do. I think he can be a key piece to us making the playoffs. I look at the way a guy blows a game, not just that he blew one. I don't believe in being real hard on closers in the playoffs because their role changes a lot (look at Nathan-Rivera-Lidge this year). A #1 starter has to go out and keep his team in the game and Odalis failed miserably at it in 2 attempts this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 you're right qwerty. I was looking at Games pitched, not started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 The 2000 playoffs for starters. He blew a few big ones against the Twins. The one that was mentioned earlier against the Yankees. You are ignoring the point I made where I said he was NOW a gutsy veteran closer. I'm not bashing KF. I am not ignoring anything. Nearly every closer blows big games over the of a year. It happens, i just do not believe he was not a big game closer back when he was with the white sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 you're right qwerty. I was looking at Games pitched, not started. He pitched in 31 games in 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I am not ignoring anything. Nearly every closer blows big games over the of a year. It happens, i just do not believe he was not a big game closer back when he was with the white sox. I believe it. I watched it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I believe it. I watched it. As did i, we have never agreed about foulke so i do not see that changing any time soon. Agree to disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxer83080 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 The 2000 playoffs for starters. He blew a few big ones against the Twins. I still remember that one game against the Twins at the metrodome...We were up a couple runs..Foulke came in and blew it..I still remember Denny Hocking hit that one off the baggy to win it for them..Totally turned our season into s***...I think Foule is a great closer...He just needs to be with a team that gets out of slumps...Remember the Sox are like the only team..where 5 or 6 players slump at the same time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I believe post season stats for the most part should be thrown out the window. Maybe that is just me. I think we should start caring about post season stats when a postseason run seems likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 As did i, we have never agreed about foulke so i do not see that changing any time soon. Agree to disagree? Deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I didn't draw the same conclusion with Foulke. Listen, Odalis Perez was their #1 starter. He laid an egg twice. I'm not saying that I don't want him on the Sox. I really do. I think he can be a key piece to us making the playoffs. I look at the way a guy blows a game, not just that he blew one. I don't believe in being real hard on closers in the playoffs because their role changes a lot (look at Nathan-Rivera-Lidge this year). A #1 starter has to go out and keep his team in the game and Odalis failed miserably at it in 2 attempts this year. I see that Foulke didn't perform, and Perez didn't perform, and Pettitte often didn't perform. You say there's something deeper than that, well, I can't disprove that, but I don't believe it for a second. And I have yet to see any evidence on that point, only testimonials. Btw, you can't lump both games together. He was bad in his 2nd outing, but it wasn't comparable to game 1. I'm dropping out of this argument. I simply don't have the same ability to judge character as all the other posters here. I'm at a game, I see pitches and swings and hits. Everyone else apparently sees mental fortitude. Maybe I just need to turn on subtitles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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