New Randy to Chicago talk

[CanOfCorn]

Vazquez would go in the RJ deal.

what he said.

[Boxer83080]

I love Aaron Rowand...but if it means getting Randy Johnson..I am all for it..only because I am tired of waiting till next year with this team..and pitching wins championships...If there is some way we can give them someone other than Marte..Randy Johnson for Rowand...Sweeney...another relief pitcher

[southsider2k5]

I beleive RJ's contract stipulates taht if he's traded the $6M is no longer deferred.

Not to be anal, but I think that is an MLB thing, right?

[beck72]

beck

If the D-backs want to win now, Everett is a good fit

Sox want to win now, Rowand is a better fit

 

You have me confused.

Everett sitting on the bench for the Sox doesn't make sense this yr [so he could be traded to AZ, who could use him in RF]. Pk can DH and Gload play 1b until Frank comes back. I agree, Everett could start on many teams. He could even start in LF for the Cubs, as they're talking about trading for Jacque Jones. But Carl doesn't fit for the sox, w/ Dye and Pods on board.

 

An OF of Pods, Arow and Dye >> than Carl, Pods and Dye. The sox can't replace Rowand's power, speed and defense this yr and shouldn't try

[Chisoxfn]

Here's how the money angle works if it would be Carl...

 

Carl makes 4 million this year.

Marte makes 1.5 million.

Garland makes 3.4 million this year.

Rowand is under a million as of now....

 

Dugout Dollars says Randy makes 10.5 million in 05 with 6 million deferred in 2004 and in 2005.

I'm not going to count Rowand in this, cause like I've said, I wouldn't make a deal involving him.

 

So thats roughly 9 mill the Sox give up. They gain 10.5 and 6 deferred for a total of 16.5 mill. Its been argued that a traded player can force to get rid of his deferrals meaning the Sox would have to pay 16.5 mill this year. I'll assume it this way first.

 

With that the case, you add the 6 mill saved from the Lee deal and your already at (9+6) 15 million. So the Sox still had 3-4 mill under budget prior to the Lee deal, which means after the RJ deal (16.5-15 = 1.5; 4-1.5 = 2.5) the Sox still have 2.5 mill remaining from the supposed 74-75 mill budget.

 

However, if the Sox can keep Rj's contract deferred and this could happen since the Sox will likely be forced to negotiate an extension and put in that the first year is also deferred still; I think they can do this with approval). Then you figure if he only gets 10.5 mill, counted this years budget (don't know how JR will do it), then that leaves the Sox with (10.5 - 9 = 1.5; 10 - 1.5 = 8.5) 8.5 million leftover following the trade with the budget staying at 75 million.

 

I do think that JR will up payroll to 80 mill if the deal is made (and the money isn't deferred) which would essentially give the Sox 7.5 million. So regardless, if this deal goes down, I think the Sox will still have 7.5-8.5 million available to fill some remaining holes.

[Mr. Showtime]

what he said.

Yeah, I'm sorry totally just blanked out on that.

[WHarris1]

Haven't read the whole thread, just looking at the DBacks deamands; Sweeney, Marte, Starting OF, and Garland.

 

That would make me so f***ing mad, that's just terrible.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Not to be anal, but I think that is an MLB thing, right?

I think so, I wasn't sure, so I just said RJ

[fathom]

Haven't read the whole thread, just looking at the DBacks deamands; Sweeney, Marte, Starting OF, and Garland.

 

That would make me so f***ing mad, that's just terrible.

Isn't it sad how so many of us are terrified as the type of moves that KW might do? To say a lot of us have no confidence in him would be quite the understatement. Just like the Carlos trade, there's one main reason why this trade would suck....it creates more holes than it fills. Only KW could go and take 2 of his biggest assets in Carlos and Rowand and not fill any of our holes, which are plentiful.

[Chisoxfn]

I think so, I wasn't sure, so I just said RJ

Ya, supposedly you can't trade a deferred thing. But I still have my doubts cause whenever Griffey was rumored to be dealt it was considered a nice thing that some of his money was deferred.

 

But I think most everyone proved me wrong. But if RJ would agree to defer the money again and the union or whomever wrote it off then it would be fine. He did it once to ensure a world series and I'm sure he'd do it again.

 

Plus, the Sox aren't going to get him without signing an extension. RJ wants another year guaranteed if he's dealt and when doing that negotiation you could negotiate or talk about the current year deferred, imo.

 

Regardless, following the deal I expect the Sox to have somewhere between 7.5 and 8.5 mill available to spend.

[WHarris1]

Only KW could go and take 2 of his biggest assets in Carlos and Rowand and not fill any of our holes, which are plentiful.

I agree with the 1st part of your post but not this...If Rowand was dealt in a RJ deal we would have filled; leadoff, RP, and ACE SP.

 

But I still don't like this trade.

 

I have been one of the ones who has wanted RJ all along but this is too much.

[thelatinoheat_30]

only way i might consider it is if it is carl and we are able to replace garland adequately. hurts to lose the lefty marte but we might be able to keep scho and if cotts can add a decent changeup, we could be fine in that department, or maybe thru a cheap nontnender next week. no mention of anderson or mccarthy which is good.

 

i'm out

[Kogs35]

if kenny is stupid enough to trade sweeny and or anderson then he is screwing up his "boards" for the next 10 years

[beck72]

Isn't it sad how so many of us are terrified as the type of moves that KW might do?  To say a lot of us have no confidence in him would be quite the understatement.  Just like the Carlos trade, there's one main reason why this trade would suck....it creates more holes than it fills.  Only KW could go and take 2 of his biggest assets in Carlos and Rowand and not fill any of our holes, which are plentiful.

These are the DBacks demands not what the Sox are offering. there's a big difference. Practically no one here is saying trade Rowand. But 3 players on the 2005 sox roster now-Garland, Marte and Everett--most are saying yes.

 

An RJ deal like this w/o Rowand, wouldn't create that many new holes. [Only Marte, but the Sox have Cotts and Munoz in house, with Schoeneweis prob. to resign, either as the 5th SP or the pen if a deal went down]

 

And the Carlos trade creating more holes than it filled?! the Sox have a LF to replace him, a bullpen arm, and cash to get a SP. It filled 2 more holes.

[bjm676]

Rowand cannot be traded. KW is not THAT stupid or is he?

[Flash Tizzle]

I'm sick of hearing about these Arizona douchebags proposing their offers.

 

Williams is beginning to irritate me. Every passing moment he humors Diamondback offers leads me to believe he's considering this trade. I'd rather he tell Arizona to f*** themselves and move on. The infactuation with Johnson needs to end. USA Today's trade proposal will deplete our team for the unforseable future, and will only work out if RJ is 100% healthy and winning 18+ every year.

 

Very simple solution to this f***ing ridiculous deal: sign FA starting pitcher. Or if Clement/Perez are already signed, pay less money for Hernandez/Milwood and assemble either an IF or C replacement.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I dont think you can include Rowand, Sweeney or Anderson in any deal for RJ. Yes, RJ is good, but is it gonna make us a WS contender THIS year? No, it wont. We'll have RJ for 2 years max when we could end up with a stellar OF for years to come. Yes, Anderson and Sweeney may not pan out, but we've already given up Reed and Webster in the past 2 years, Young is a long ways away, Borchard didnt pan out and Anderson and Sweeney appear like they may be the real deal. With several young pitchers coming up plus MB and FG already here, we could have a very good team soon. I know a lot of people want to play for today and not tomorrow, but i would not mortgage our future for just one player for only 2 years tops

[hi8is]

would this be too far fetched?

 

kenny goes to JR and says,

 

look jerry, we need pitching and speed to win... i can get us randy johnson for garland, roward, marte, and a prospect.... i know thats giving up a lot, but with the 6 million we have already saved, the players we lose ofset johnson contract, so we would be right at the payrol limit...

 

buy, jerry... we would still have a hole for the 5th starter, our outfield would be weaker with everett in LF.... and our bullpen wouldnt be as strong....

 

so jerry, what im asking from you, is for you to give me 12 million more this year.... i want the 7 mil a year its gonna take for oldais perez.... and the other 5 million for some help at upgrading our catcher and bullpen to offset our other losses...

 

i think JR might just do that and then we could see something like this...

 

1. Pods (CF)

2. AJ ©

3. Hurt (DH)

4. Paulie (1b)

5. Dye (RF)

6. Everett (LF)

7. Uribe (SS)

8. Crede (3B)

9. Harris (2B)

 

rotation:

1. RJ

2. Mark B

3. Garcia

4. O. Perez

5. Contreras

 

bullpen:

singto

viszkano

hermanson

poliete

scott shoe

cotts

 

 

i think if we could do that, it would be worth losing rowand, garland, and marte

[fathom]

And the Carlos trade creating more holes than it filled?! the Sox have a LF to replace him, a bullpen arm, and cash to get a SP. It filled 2 more holes.

I didn't say that the Carlos trade created more holes for the Sox. It just infuriated me that the particular trade didnt help the Sox out by obtaining a middle infielder, catcher, or starting pitcher. Now, I know the money saved could go to a starting pitcher...but I'll believe that when it happens. Also, there's quite a big downgrade in talent from Marte to Cotts or Schoeneweis. Even in his down year last year, Marte was still lights out against lefties.

 

Another thought I have about RJ is that it makes a lot more sense for the Yanks to get him than the Sox cause the Yanks are basically one stud pitcher away from being the favorite to win the WS. Rather, the Sox need RJ to even have a solid shot at winning the division.

[beck72]

I'm sick of hearing about these Arizona douchebags proposing their offers.

 

Williams is beginning to irritate me.  Tell Arizona to f*** themselves and move on.  The infactuation with Johnson needs to end. USA Today's trade proposal will deplete our team for the unforseable future, and will only work out  if RJ is 100% healthy and winning 18+ every year. 

 

Very simple solution to this f***ing ridiculous deal:  sign FA starting pitcher.  Or if Clement/Perez are already signed, pay less money for Hernandez/Milwood and assemble either an IF or C replacement.

normally I'd agree with you. But in this market, where Millwood and Clement could get near $9 mill/ yr for 3, 4 yrs, listening to what AZ has to say about RJ and his $16 mill contract can't hurt.

[WSFAN35]

Even in his down year last year, Marte was still lights out against lefties.

Vizcaino is lights out against lefties. Losing Marte doesn't hurt us as much as everyone thinks it does.

[Boxer83080]

I know everyone loves Aaron including myself...But if we land RJ we'd have a better shot at getting into the playoffs and def. overtaking the central...Our defense would get weaker....But Everett could play left..SPods in center...Dye in right..but think of our pitching rotation...Randy Johnson, Freddy Garcia, Mark Beuhrle, Jose Contreras, and Dustin Hermanson...Bullpen then Vizcaino..Politte..Takatsu

 

Lineup then:

 

SPods

Uribe

Thomas

Konerko

Dye

Everett

Crede

Davis

Harris

[WSFAN35]

Kenny's not going to trade Rowand, even for RJ.

[Steff]

I'm sick of hearing about these Arizona douchebags proposing their offers.

 

Williams is beginning to irritate me. Every passing moment he humors Diamondback offers leads me to believe he's considering this trade. I'd rather he tell Arizona to f*** themselves and move on.  The infactuation with Johnson needs to end. USA Today's trade proposal will deplete our team for the unforseable future, and will only work out  if RJ is 100% healthy and winning 18+ every year. 

 

Very simple solution to this f***ing ridiculous deal:  sign FA starting pitcher.  Or if Clement/Perez are already signed, pay less money for Hernandez/Milwood and assemble either an IF or C replacement.

What has he done.. ? He hasn't said a word. Blame the idiot writers who don't have anything better to do with their time but to make s*** up.

[Chisoxfn]

if kenny is stupid enough to trade sweeny and or anderson then he is screwing up his "boards" for the next 10 years

Disagree, I think only one of them is on his boards with Chris Young being a guy that will be on his 3 year board in the next year or two.

 

Rowand is going to be here for a while. Now Spod will likely be too.