KevHead0881 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Think we could pass off Willie as an outfielder? He has played there before. Not if other teams have scouting reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Yeesh, I want Rj as much as anyone but that's a boatload to give up. First off if the outfielder is aaron rowand then move on, cause rowand has to be untouchable in my mind. I have no problem giving up sweeney in any deal at all. I really wouldn't want to give up damaso but I would definitely like to hang onto him because I love the way the pen is setup now. Garland would have to go, so no problems there. I think a deal like this would all depend on who that outfielder would be, imo. I'm fairly confident now that Rj will end up with the sox though. He's the guy kenny has really wanted and any package the yankees offer we can offer better, RJ will be pitching for the sox this year, I'm just hoping we don't give up to much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Think we could pass off Willie as an outfielder? He has played there before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Think we could pass off Willie as an outfielder? He has played there before. So has Konerko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpy2121 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Like a lot of you guys are saying...I like this trade if it doesnt involve rowand. If Ari. wont do anybody but rowand for the OF then we should just try to sign clement or perez or try to trade for perez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 So has Konerko. Hey, maybe Paully can pass as a 3rd baseman. Remember that experiment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 The acquisitions of Vizcaino and Hermanson make Marte available, thats for sure. I just hope Kenny is adamant about not giving up his boy Rowand. But why should Marte be available? Why not hold onto him? A strong bullpen, coupled with a SP acquisition, will remove any question relating to our pitching staff. This Johnson talk is becoming absurb. Some of you are honestly considering Marte expendable because of ONE medicore (to his standards) year in which he was still a good pitcher. He's not overrated, nor does Vizcaino or Hermanson make him expendable. I feel as I'm in one of those horror movies where everyone is oblivious to the trouble (trading for Johnson) which lay ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 If Arizona thinks that they can get all of those players for just Randy AND we pick up all of his salary, then they are crazy. That's the sticking point, imo. If they expect to unload the entire salary for 2005 and an extension, than what they are asking for is absolutely ridiculous and we should move on to Hudson, Burnett, Clement, Perez, etc. They either have to pony up some cash or give us a good middle IF/VERY high level prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I feel as I'm in one of those horror movies where everyone is obivious to the trouble (trading for Johnson) which lay ahead. Not everyone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Considering how much Kenny has been drooling about the bullpen since the acquisions of Hermanson and Viscaino, I don't see us trading away Marte. And I don't blame Kenny for liking the bullpen. At the moment, it looks really freaking solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 by next october when rj's pitching for the yankees in the world series this whole rj to the white sox saga will have to go down as one of the biggest wastes of cyberspace ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I don't really believe in save % for set-up men because it is designed for them to fail more. Neal Cotts is simply not ready to be an 8th inning lefty specialist. The market pretty much only yields Steve Kline in that department at the moment. I'm sure that they want Rowand although I'm not sure why he should be considered untouchable. Now that we have a CF in Pod, I would have no problem moving Rowand as part of a package. My biggest complaint is with moving Judy, simply for the obvious continuing saga of the 5 spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Signing Clement/Perez and adding AJ..is the same as trading all those people and getting Johnson's contract. signing Clement/Perez=at most approx. 8 million/year signing AJ=approx. 4 million/year comes to approx. 12 million from the approx. 10 million they have to spend...making it 77 million instead of the 75 million getting rid of the players and adding Johnson comes to 12 million(i read in chisoxfn's post earlier): Techinically the Sox have 10 mill available right now, so the 12 mill gained from the salary would increase the Sox budgeted payroll 2 million. Meaning there payroll would be 77 million, 2 million over the alleged 75 mill budget. this fills the hole of another pitcher and catcher. Also the Sox keep Garland and all the other players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Considering how much Kenny has been drooling about the bullpen since the acquisions of Hermanson and Viscaino, I don't see us trading away Marte. And I don't blame Kenny for liking the bullpen. At the moment, it looks really freaking solid. or maybe that's why he's drooling, because we picked up 2 arms and now can get rid of Marte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxer83080 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Signing Clement/Perez and adding AJ..is the same as trading all those people and getting Johnson's contract. Yea thats true plus it gives us a catcher..and a starting pitcher..and we keep rowand..and marte for next year...but if we lose out on any of those pitchers..i could see kenny pulling the trigger on a trade...But I guess my question is..how long does Kenny wait to make such a deal happen..either by trade or signing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I wish we can all collectively agree trading important pieces of our team for Johnson is not worth it. I agree. But in a hypothetical trade for RJ, knowing Rowand can NOT be a part of the trade, the only real important pieces we are giving up that effect the Sox this year are Garland and Marte...and really, by acquiring RJ with Garland being apart of the package, we are back at square one essentially as far as the rotation is concerned in the sense that we still have a blackhole at the end of our rotation(Johnson-Garcia-Buehrle-Contreras-GRILLI...that last part does not roll off the tongue well). There are decent LH relievers available, and there will be some available at the trade deadline if the one we get does not work well. I do think with the acquisition of Vizcaino that one of our relievers becomes available for trade...Politte has little value, Hermanson is untradeable until June, and Shingo is not a guy we can really trade...that leaves Marte, and Vizcaino himself really. After trading Marte, you look for a replacement LH reliever of some type...and there are a few solid ones out there still. All you need him to be able to do is help you get outs. Also...if Arizona is looking at Jeromy Burnitz to play CF for them, they will take Everett in CF too. Everett is not good in CF, but if I were running a team, I would probably prefer Everett in CF over Burnitz. JMHO of course. Then again...if Everett, Marte, Garland, and a prospect like Diaz or Adkins does not get it done...screw Arizona. Also...to those of you who want Hudson over Johnson...I can understand why. I think I might prefer Hudson over Johnson myself. You have to consider what it would take to give up Hudson compared to what it could take to get Johnson, and then figure out which move is better for your team. To get Hudson, it would likely cost us Uribe and BMac, and if you trade Uribe, you have to get a replacement who absolutely has to be able to play SS(because I quite frankly am not fond of the idea of having Willie or Valdez play SS for us), and as of right now, the SS market is slim pickin's...unless you are willing to pay $8 mill for Cabrera(I vote no in that category). Giving up Everett, Garland, Marte, and a prospect > Uribe and BMac. JMO again of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Think we could pass off Willie as an outfielder? He has played there before. .....or Borchard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 But why should Marte be available? Why not hold onto him? A strong bullpen, coupled with a SP acquisition, will remove any question relating to our pitching staff. This Johnson talk is becoming absurb. Some of you are honestly considering Marte expendable because of ONE medicore (to his standards) year in which he was still a good pitcher. He's not overrated, nor does Vizcaino or Hermanson make him expendable. I feel as I'm in one of those horror movies where everyone is oblivious to the trouble (trading for Johnson) which lay ahead. Oh I agree, Marte is cheap, but if it gets Randy Johnson, I don't care. This gives the Sox the best starting pitcher in baseball (arguably) and he'll be here this year and next. After that I don't care. Garland is solid but may be gone after this season anyway and Marte is solid but the Sox have a better pen then last year anyway and if they deal him I'd like to see them find a lefty to semi replace him (Scho is the guy I like). And then if Anderson and Diaz or whatever two prospects are a part of the deal then fine. The Sox aren't really giving up that much of there future, but it is a solid deal for the Dbacks as well. They are going to get 2 everyday players (Garland and Everett), a near everyday reliever (Marte), plus Diaz or whomever probably plays as well in the pen. And a future to get another starter out of Anderson/Sweeney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank the Tank 35 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I agree that getting Clement/Perez and Burnett would be better than getting RJ. But what would we have to give up for Burnett? Garland and Konerko? I'd rather keep Konerko and give up Everett, Borchard (give him away anyway, that hack), and some minor leaguer/bullpen. I'd only trade Marte after working him out... Last year his fastball was waaay down. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but 2 years ago his fastball was hitting 98/99 all the time. Last year it he was lucky to be pitching 94/95... a big difference in why his numbers were not as good. If his fastball is back up, I say don't include him as he is an elite bullpen guy in that case. If Burnett could be had at the same price or less than Randy, I say get him and then sign a FA SP. Even if we get Randy, I just don't see the JR opening up the coffers to spend enough to fill the rest of the gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 or maybe that's why he's drooling, because we picked up 2 arms and now can get rid of Marte. ...or maybe he just has a salival disfunction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxer83080 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 REMEMBER LAST OFFSEASON..Marte took like the whole offseason off...instead of working on his mechanics...I wonder if that had anything to do with his fastball being down last year..Also we overwork that guy..He's in there everyday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Sweeney or Anderson is to much. Garland, Everett, Marte, and the very most Diaz or Munoz. Arizona really does not know what its doing, and if it becomes the Sox are the only possibility it is more than a fair trade. It all depends on if Arizona has to trade RJ. If it can keep him, then there is no way we should trade for him, because they are going to be overwhelmed. If Arizona has to get rid of his salary, then we should try and trade because we will be in a better position. (EDIT) And if it gets the deal done, Borchard in any of the combinations. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Obviously the Dbacks would do Rowand, Garland, Marte, Anderson, but that move just doesn't make sense for the Sox cause Rowand is cheap and will be around for a while. Of course Rowand could easily prove himself as being a one year wonder and that his numbers take a bit of a dive. Still, I can't see Kenny giving him up. He's a grinder, but ocassionally Kenny gives up guys he doesn't want to because the other guys makes the team better. Ie, him giving up Olivo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxer83080 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 Does anyone here think that the Diamondbacks, knowing they are in debt, feel pressure in trading Johnson now because of the signing of Glaus and Ortiz? I mean where in the hell did they get money for these players? But maybe they did it because they were positive that they could unload Johnson to eith the Yankees or the Sox...Cause Ortiz and Glaus would make up Johnson's salary and also add a little.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 I want Johnson just as much as anyone but if it's going to cost Garland, Rowand/Podsednik/Dye, Sweeney, Marte, and a PTBNL, KW better tell Arizona to go pound sand up their ass. I second that, no player is worth that much to me unless its bonds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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