farmteam Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Personally, I'd rather have Perez anyway. So, if we lose out on Clement, Perez will be one of the best starters left, and his value, and price, will skyrocket. If we move now, we could get him cheaper. Don't get me wrong though, I'd be happy with Clement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaSoxFan Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 boobies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Wow, he's homely. If he didn't pitch and make millions at it, he would probably never get chicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I don't want the Sox paying 9 million dollars for Clement. Perez will cost less thanks to his poor performance in the postseason. I think he's better than Clement anyway. Perez has thrown more innings than Clement in the last three years, yet has given up just over half the number of walks Clement has. Clement's night ERA is a run higher than his day ERA in that span as well. Perez had the fourth best WHIP in the NL, Clement fourteenth. Perez also a ground ball pitcher like Clement, so you lose nothing there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox2334 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Guys way it sounds is anahiem raising the price that means their favorites right now. Boston said to be in it and they could easily out bid us with anahiem. I dont see it going down in our favor. I wish it would but thing is pitching market is way up and for us its hard outbid unless you have a got like dye who says I gave my word to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Personally, I'd rather have Perez anyway. So, if we lose out on Clement, Perez will be one of the best starters left, and his value, and price, will skyrocket. If we move now, we could get him cheaper. Don't get me wrong though, I'd be happy with Clement. Perhaps I'm looking too far into KW's "under the radar mentality," but maybe this situation right now is the perfect scenario for acquiring Perez. Sox list their bid for Clement as 3yr, 22/23 milllion; a price they know will be topped by competing clubs. While organizations are waiting for word Thursday or Friday, Williams swoops in and steals Perez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black jack Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 i can't see perez signing before clement. i hope so, but it seems very unlikely. his agent should be fired if he does. his price will skyrocket as soon as clement is off the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Mine was the one that actually worked... So are you hoping Donnie Wahlberg (or is it Marky Mark) signs with the White Sox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 So are you hoping Donnie Wahlberg (or is it Marky Mark) signs with the White Sox? Hahaha, it's actually Tom DeLonge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Hahaha, it's actually Tom DeLonge. Who? Here's a free avatar for someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Did anyone see sportscenter? According to some guy on another message board, the White Sox have offered a three year deal worth 8.5 per year. Anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I don't want the Sox paying 9 million dollars for Clement. Perez will cost less thanks to his poor performance in the postseason. I think he's better than Clement anyway. Perez has thrown more innings than Clement in the last three years, yet has given up just over half the number of walks Clement has. Clement's night ERA is a run higher than his day ERA in that span as well. Perez had the fourth best WHIP in the NL, Clement fourteenth. Perez also a ground ball pitcher like Clement, so you lose nothing there. The Argument for Clement is that he has top of the rotation "stuff" -- He strikes guys out, but struggles with control -- 26 HBP's and 27WP's in the last 2 seasons... So his Baserunners/9IP is even higher than WHIP would indicate. Clement has only posted one season with an ERA+ significantly over 100, and his career ERA+ is below 100 Perez has posted and ERA+ significatly above 100 twice in the last three seasons, and his career ERA+ is over 100. They are very simillar, I would argue that Perez is probably a safer bet, in that he seems less likely to be injured. Clement has a violent delivery and motion. Perez is also younger, has yet to reach "peak" age, and will probably improve slightly over the course of his next contract. Clement, at age 29, has just reached peak, and although he has the "stuff" to be a top starter, I find it hard to beleive that if he hasn't harnessed it by now that he ever will truly figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Did anyone see sportscenter? According to some guy on another message board, the White Sox have offered a three year deal worth 8.5 per year. Anyone. SportsCenter hasn't even aired yet. I was watching the 5PMCST version, and the only baseball talk was about DC, Sammy, Roids, and Pedro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 SportsCenter hasn't even aired yet. I was watching the 5PMCST version, and the only baseball talk was about DC, Sammy, Roids, and Pedro. I think it was on the duece during whatever crappy NBA game they had going on the main network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaSoxFan Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 JR spending money? The sox matching the Angles offer? What the hell is going on? Is JR on drugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I think it was on the duece during whatever crappy NBA game they had going on the main network. Then I missed that. Wasn't actually a bad game. Knicks-Pistons, NY blew the game late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Sportscenter was on ESPN2. I actually hope this deal happens. Then we could trade Judy Garland and prospects for Tim Hudson or for a hitter and sign El Duque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I think average game score is a fine way to measure what everyone calls "stuff". Clement's AGS was 55.4, Perez's was 55.1. For perspective, RJ's was 64.8, Eric Milton's was 49.7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomsonmi Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I am cautiously optimistic on this. But, that being said though I want Clement I do think there are other options out there if we don't get him. I'm actually more worried about the psychological condition of White Sox fans. If we don't sign him it won't be for lack of trying so let's all prepare ourselves for the worse and when the bad news comes sit back and realize that there is still two months until pitchers and catchers report. There's still plenty of time to find that 5th quality starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 (edited) I think average game score is a fine way to measure what everyone calls "stuff". Clement's AGS was 55.4, Perez's was 55.1. For perspective, RJ's was 64.8, Eric Milton's was 49.7. gamescore is a good way, as it values strikeouts, but I think it penalizes for walks. Guys with good "stuff" usually end up walking their fair share of batters because they don't have the control to go along with it. I just noticed the "stuff" stat today on the DT cards over at baseball prospectus...I had never paid attention to this column of numbers before, but they seem to be a pretty accurate assessment of a guys stuff. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/clemema01.shtml -- Clement rates as 16 in stuff over his career, but significanly better in his years with the Cubs http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/perezod01.shtml -- Perez rates as 12 in stuff, and has been more consistent in his career. RJ is off the charts with a stuff # of 44. Edited December 16, 2004 by Gene Honda Civic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I think average game score is a fine way to measure what everyone calls "stuff". Clement's AGS was 55.4, Perez's was 55.1. For perspective, RJ's was 64.8, Eric Milton's was 49.7. What's AGS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 What's AGS? average game score Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 i can't see perez signing before clement. i hope so, but it seems very unlikely. his agent should be fired if he does. his price will skyrocket as soon as clement is off the market. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 average game score whats average game score? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 whats average game score? Good Question, I'm as dumbfounded as you LOL!!! I Guess it's got something to do with run support and stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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