bulokis Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Damn, good to see the sox step up. Either perez or clement will make this offseason pretty good. Hope its not for 30 mil coz we still need a 2nd baseman or a catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Ya, I know ManSoo has posted here plenty of times, but if your still online ManSoo, did you hear this directly or see it somewhere else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox91403 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 If it's true, then he'll sign here unless Boston jumps in with a crazy offer. The Boston thing worries me because they have to be in panic mode now with Pedro gone and Schilling possibly out til May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I want a pitcher, but clement is no where near a 10 million dollar pitcher. I would hate this deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 i dont think that some people here understand the concept of supply and demand there arent that many middle of the rotation starters out that in the FA market and TONS of teams need them so, all of them are naturally going to get into bidding wars with eachother its just what needs to be done, every starter will get a lot more then hes worth this season, look back... and wait to see as well perez, lowe, clement.... they all will get TONS more then they deserve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 i dont think that some people here understand the concept of supply and demand there arent that many middle of the rotation starters out that in the FA market and TONS of teams need them so, all of them are naturally going to get into bidding wars with eachother its just what needs to be done, every starter will get a lot more then hes worth this season, look back... and wait to see as well perez, lowe, clement.... they all will get TONS more then they deserve Seeing this would have garnered a response from me regardless, but I just posted something you must read in the thread called "the market" With the trade that we just made that weakened our team offensively, we put ourselves in an even worse situation financially. The top tier pitching talent is no longer available via free agency, and there is currently a bidding war for middling talent. NormallY I would just advocate staying out of such bidding wars, but with the offense weaker, the Sox need to make sure they have average or better SP's for all 5 spots in the rotation. They've made it such that they may have to overpay in one area, just to compensate for what was lost in another(through the trade) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 They've made it such that they may have to overpay in one area, just to compensate for what was lost in another(through the trade) Which the trade put them in position to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Can I just ask who would people have preferred? Carl Pavano or Matt Clement because right now it looks like they both could get about $10 million a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I want a pitcher, but clement is no where near a 10 million dollar pitcher. I dont care if we overpay a little to get Clement in here. IMHO he's the best of teh FA pitchers still available for us and I REALLY want to see him in a Sox uniform. Time to use some of that left over Carlos Lee cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 i would have rather had clement... hes got better numbers though his carrer... have better stuff IMO... and will probably do better in our park both of those pitchers arent worth 10 million compared to what other pitchers who didnt sign this year are getting paid but this year, we need someone like clemente or pavano... so we have to pay it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Which the trade put them in position to do. yes, but forgetting the character assisination of Carlos Lee, the team would have been better served keeping Lee, and signing a marginaly below average SP to fill the 5th spot. With the trade, we're looking at having a below average LF, one average starter(JG), one ? of a starter(JC), and one highly overpaid average starter with potential(OP or MC) Without the trade, we'd have an above average LF, one average starter(JG), one ? of a starter(JC), and one respectably paid marginally effective pitcher. I realize I'm neglecting Vizciano from the equation, there's a couple of reasons for that. 1)for the most part Relievers are easily replacable. 2)I haven't seen him play at all, and it's hard to evalute him sight unseen. He could be Damaso, He could be Mike Jackson. If he's Marte, then we've got something, but if he's anything less we lost the trade pending a miracle. On a side note, boy does it feel good not to be sick anymore... Since sunday night I've felt like crap. I've slept for most of tuesday and alot of today. I finally feel better. It's 3 in the morning, and I'm nowhere near tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I'm glad you are feeling better. When you leave out Lee's character and Vizcaino, and the fact that marginally effective pitchers are going for big bucks right now, I can't argue with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Seeing this would have garnered a response from me regardless, but I just posted something you must read in the thread called "the market" With the trade that we just made that weakened our team offensively, we put ourselves in an even worse situation financially. The top tier pitching talent is no longer available via free agency, and there is currently a bidding war for middling talent. NormallY I would just advocate staying out of such bidding wars, but with the offense weaker, the Sox need to make sure they have average or better SP's for all 5 spots in the rotation. They've made it such that they may have to overpay in one area, just to compensate for what was lost in another(through the trade) "A player’s actual value, of course, comes from his performance on the field. In a perfect market, the best players would get the most money and it would continue on down to the fringe major league types making the league minimum. However, as we all know, MLB is not a perfect market. There are inefficincies that can be exploited for a competitive advantage." that seems to be the premise of that entire post... maybe i read it too fast but i dont agree.... if there are say, 10 teams that feel if they get a #3 or #4 pitcher to strengthen their rotation... that they will then have a very good chance of winning more and making the playoffs.... now... say there are 4 #3 or #4 starters.... those 10 teams are going to want those 4 players very bad and will naturally compete against eachother to win the services of those players... its not like they say.... "oh, well clement is only a midlevel performance guy... so we are going to offer him 5 million...." then team b says the same thing... same thing from c... etc.... its not like those 10 teams are going to offer what he is worth and then let clement CHOOSE what team HE wants to play for.... the team wants to make the CHOICE for him, hence him getting 10 million instead of the 5 or 6 he is "worth" i think its an easy concept to understand and its just part of the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 The problem isn't the bidding war for the middle of the pack guys, it's that it appears that there's not going to be a seperation from the middle to the top tier guys.... Pedro @ 13M vs. Clement @ 10M -- Nobody can convice me that Pedro is only worth 3M more per year than clement... It's all a backlash from the ARod contract. The owners don't wanna hand out exorbitant contract to the top guys and hadicap their team, and they've colluded the market down for them. Simultaneously, they've drastically increased the market for those middle of the road players. When MLB has a "Free agent recommendation form" a team can fill out to get advice on how much to pay a player, you have to wonder about why the going rate for an average SP is 3/22.5 -- Benson set the market there, no doubt due in some part to this form Major league baseball it seems didn't take to kindly to the talk of collusion the past two years as average salary dropped. All they've done is incorporated sanctioned collusion in the form of free financial "advice" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 With the trade, we're looking at having a below average LF, i think that sPods is by far not below average... i mean the guy stole 70 bases last season.... in the interview i saw with him today.... he said that he changed his approch at the plate last season, was trying to do more then he should have... and in 05 he will be going back to the approch he used in 03... i can easily see him hitting .280+/110 runs scored/45+ SB... he isnt going to win a gold glove.. but he will be more then adaquit as a fielder... hes not below average... sorry, just the way i see it thou and ive been wrong once or twice =D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 aside from pedro.,... who were the other ace starting pitchers out there? i dont think its a fear of signing the big guys for big bucks thats driving up the middle guys asking price... i think its the lack of true high quality pitchers... theres more #3/#4 guys then #1/#2 guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 until he puts up another .800 OPS season, the .265 career minor leaguer is going to be below average, regardless of his SB total. -- I'd love to be wrong, but I don't see him ever approaching his 2003 campaign again... frankly I'd be ecstatic with .270/.333/.400 out of him -- but that's still below average for a LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 i dont understand how you cant take his SB total into regard thats ubsurd! say he gets 50 SB's... thats like having 50 doubles instead of 50 singles stolen bases or even having a threat like that on base is such a huge positive im intrested to see next year how many times a pitcher will give up a gopher ball because hes focusing more on Pods then he is on the hitter agree to disagree and we'll see how our acquisitions pain out for now, ill go try to learn how to spell =D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I want a pitcher, but clement is no where near a 10 million dollar pitcher. Agree 1000000000% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 From todays Boston Herald: "Clement is believed to be weighing offers from the Sox, Anaheim Angels, Toronto Blue Jays and Arizona Diamondbacks, with the Sox and Angels leading the way with similar three-year offers worth $24-25 million. Toronto's offer is believed to be three years for $22.5-23 million, while Arizona is considered a last resort. Anaheim is expected to go as high as $27 million, if necessary, but the Sox likely will not increase their offer." Sounds good. Match Ana's offer, Bos. won't, sox sign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox2334 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Well guys the score lied if they thats what is being told. With multi deal with uribe. I dont see how we could offer matt clement 3 yrs 30 mil. Plus I haven not heard anything on this offer either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I want a pitcher, but clement is no where near a 10 million dollar pitcher. Correct i do not like this at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Just so I understand... I have read Thread after Thread about Kenny Williams not landing a good free agent, Jerry not stepping up and paying for a pitcher, and the Sox not opening up the checkbook for a guy we need. I have read members on this site yell and complain about this for years now. Now, when it seems like maybe Kenny and Jerry are doing what we want... People complain again. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Just so I understand... I have read Thread after Thread about Kenny Williams not landing a good free agent, Jerry not stepping up and paying for a pitcher, and the Sox not opening up the checkbook for a guy we need. I have read you guy yell and complain aout this for years now. Now , when it seems like maybe Kenny and Jerry are doing what we want... People complain again. :headshake I think you have a firm grasp of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Just so I understand... I have read Thread after Thread about Kenny Williams not landing a good free agent, Jerry not stepping up and paying for a pitcher, and the Sox not opening up the checkbook for a guy we need. I have read members on this site yell and complain about this for years now. Now, when it seems like maybe Kenny and Jerry are doing what we want... People complain again. :headshake At least people complain less on this site than others. And people call them out to explain their complaints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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