upnorthsox Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Nolan Ryan lead MLB with a 2.76 era while going 8-16, during one season in Houston. Records in MLB are not very good indicators of how well someone pitched. So would we be paying him $10 mil a yr to put up stats or win games? Houston finished 76-86 that yr in 3rd place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 wonder how somebody like, say Buehrle, would feel about Clement blowing into town and making more cash -- even though Buehrle is a better pitcher who has pitched his ass off for the Sox. That's too much for Clement. rather go with Perez for less. Could use two lefties in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 So would we be paying him $10 mil a yr to put up stats or win games? Houston finished 76-86 that yr in 3rd place. Pitchers just pitch in the AL. They have zero control over what the offense does, what the defense does, and what the bullpen does. All you can ask is that a pitcher gives you a chance to win. If a team isn't scoring you runs, there isn't much you can do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Not much to "uprooting" a newborn.. or kids under 4 for that matter. It is if you have a city you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 You know, I agree that Clement hasn't done enough at this point to justify the White Sox investing this kind of money in him. The Sox are in a Damned if you do, damned if you don't situation here. What I'd like to know is, what do YOU think the Sox should do? I'm so indifferent on this deal. I definitely don't want to give up what it appears we'd have to. I question the butts it would put in the seats. I question the risk of a 40 year old pitcher. I question the fan revolt if Randy goes down. I guess I really don't like getting Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winning Ugly Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Those stating that $10 million is too much for Clement, think about this... Would you rather overpay by a few million and get a younger pitcher for 3-4 years, or would you rather trade 5 players (3 of them starters and 2 of them future prospects we would need) for big Unit for 2 years? The answer is clear. Bring on Matt Clement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I'm so indifferent on this deal. I definitely don't want to give up what it appears we'd have to. I question the butts it would put in the seats. I question the risk of a 40 year old pitcher. I question the fan revolt if Randy goes down. I guess I really don't like getting Johnson. I thought we were talking about Clement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 It is if you have a city you like. For $10 million a year.. no it's not. Just ask Robin Ventura who's kids were all much older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I thought we were talking about Clement. LMAO.. I just realized I was responding to the wrong trade. :dips*** For the record.. I don't like this deal either.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 LMAO.. I just realized I was responding to the wrong trade. :dips*** For the record.. I don't like this deal either.. Well, I know that much. But what I want to know is if you were in Kenny's situation, what would you do about our starting pitching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I'm so indifferent on this deal. I definitely don't want to give up what it appears we'd have to. I question the butts it would put in the seats. I question the risk of a 40 year old pitcher. I question the fan revolt if Randy goes down. I guess I really don't like getting Johnson. must resist urge...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Well, I know that much. But what I want to know is if you were in Kenny's situation, what would you do about our starting pitching? I would have tried harder to get Pavano to visit.. Taken him to the Crazy Horse.. found him a nice "date".. err.. uhh.. whoops. With what's left... I don't know what the hell to do. I think Perez is a solid choice and would afford us to get a 5th starter.. cough*Elo*cough.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 must resist urge...... Oh shut it.. I already called myself a dips***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Not much to "uprooting" a newborn.. or kids under 4 for that matter. Ahh Honey I have an offer to go to southern california, basically we can buy any house we want on the ocean and put our newborn in private schools all our life. On top of that, we can even buy a house for your folks so they can live in the area, we still don't have to give up our house in chicago if you don't want to but the good thing is you can wake up to sunshine and shop till you drop on rodeo drive. What do you think? My wife would have gotten a lift with steffs company who would be moving us as we speak. the point is, I am sure they like the midwest and chicago, and I hope he stays here but all things equal the wife will not make this decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winning Ugly Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Ahh Honey I have an offer to go to southern california, basically we can buy any house we want on the ocean and put our newborn in private schools all our life. On top of that, we can even buy a house for your folks so they can live in the area, we still don't have to give up our house in chicago if you don't want to but the good thing is you can wake up to sunshine and shop till you drop on rodeo drive. What do you think? My wife would have gotten a lift with steffs company who would be moving us as we speak. the point is, I am sure they like the midwest and chicago, and I hope he stays here but all things equal the wife will not make this decision. "Been there, done that honey. I want to remain here." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S720 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 For all the "Nay" sayers, what would you do at this point? I don't believe anyone here on this forum thinks that Clement worths $10 mil, when MB and Garcia are making much less than that! However, given the current situation where #3 Starting Pitcher market is just going off the roof, the Sox can not stand still and allow other teams to overpay. If anyone thinks that O. Perez will get less than $8 mil from any team, you will definitely see the future will prove you wrong. O. Perez will get bet. $8 and $10 mil a year. Let's just say of the sake of argument that the Sox let go of Clement and push after O. Perez. What happens if all of the sudden other teams jump into the bidding to drive up his salary to over $8 mil, what would you do? And if we lose out of both of these two remaining quality starting pitchers, where are we heading then? Back to the cartwheel of having ulcer and frustration on our 5th starter! IMHO, if the paying is bet. $8 and $10 mils, it's much safer to go with Clement. For ages, we Sox fans have complained how cheap the Sox has been. Now that JR is willing to open up his wallet to acquire a very good #3 starter, we still b**** and moan. KW is willing to trade for RJ, but then we say it's too costly and would tear our team apart. What is wrong and happening to us? The perfect scenario is after acquiring Clement, JR, once again, is opening his wallet and sign Pierzynski and/or Polanco! Man, that would make this offseason the best ever! Look at our lineup: Starting Pitchers (in rotation order): 1) Buehrle 18 wins 2) Garcia 18 wins 3) Clement 15 wins 4) Contreras 14 wins 5) Garland 12 wins Starting Batters (in batting order): 1) Podsednik CF 2) Rowand LF 3) Thomas or Everett DH 4) Konerko 1B 5) Dye RF 6) Uribe SS 7) Crede 3B 8) Davis/Burke C 9) Harris 2B Bullpen (SOLID) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I'm so indifferent on this deal. I definitely don't want to give up what it appears we'd have to. I question the butts it would put in the seats. I question the risk of a 40 year old pitcher. I question the fan revolt if Randy goes down. I guess I really don't like getting Johnson. IMHO Johnson would be the emotional choice Clement would be the dumb choice Perez would be the cheap choice Hudson would be the intelligent choice With KW you can't rule out the emotional choice. With JR you definitely can't rule out the cheap choice. God forbid we ever make the intelligent choice. So the answer is.......................................................... .........We'll just have to wait til July to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 wonder how somebody like, say Buehrle, would feel about Clement blowing into town and making more cash -- even though Buehrle is a better pitcher who has pitched his ass off for the Sox. That's too much for Clement. rather go with Perez for less. Could use two lefties in the rotation. its the same when people go to work at there jobs. I have been with my company 14 years, others come in and get better packages, its the going rate despite the fact I may be better and or smarter at my job. I choose to stay rather than go. Its life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 must resist urge...... You didn't take the I don't like 'getting Johnson' (hehe) joke bait... Wow, you are really maturing. So stop it already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I want a pitcher, but clement is no where near a 10 million dollar pitcher. Agreed. Trade for Hudson and give him a $12-13/year extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Hudson would be the intelligent choice God forbid we ever make the intelligent choice. So the answer is.......................................................... .........We'll just have to wait til July to find out. Without knowing what Oakland wants for Hudson, how can you know that is the intelligent choice? If Oakland wants a package like AZ wants, plus Hudson wants a 5 year $15 million extension, is it still the intelligent choice? With as many unknowns are surround Tim Hudson, it is difficult to slam the Sox for not getting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Agreed. Trade for Hudson and give him a $12-13/year extension. Trade who for Hudson? .... Will the trade open up other holes in the team or rape our farm system? Overpay with players or money? Pick your poison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I like Clement. I would loke him morew if he wore a White Sox uni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Agreed. Trade for Hudson and give him a $12-13/year extension. I have a very reliable source, who says the Sox #1 pitching target IS Hudson. They want him more than RJ. This same source also said that the initial contact between the Sox and Clement was made by Clement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 For all the "Nay" sayers, what would you do at this point? I don't believe anyone here on this forum thinks that Clement worths $10 mil, when MB and Garcia are making much less than that! However, given the current situation where #3 Starting Pitcher market is just going off the roof, the Sox can not stand still and allow other teams to overpay. If anyone thinks that O. Perez will get less than $8 mil from any team, you will definitely see the future will prove you wrong. O. Perez will get bet. $8 and $10 mil a year. Let's just say of the sake of argument that the Sox let go of Clement and push after O. Perez. What happens if all of the sudden other teams jump into the bidding to drive up his salary to over $8 mil, what would you do? And if we lose out of both of these two remaining quality starting pitchers, where are we heading then? Back to the cartwheel of having ulcer and frustration on our 5th starter! IMHO, if the paying is bet. $8 and $10 mils, it's much safer to go with Clement. For ages, we Sox fans have complained how cheap the Sox has been. Now that JR is willing to open up his wallet to acquire a very good #3 starter, we still b**** and moan. KW is willing to trade for RJ, but then we say it's too costly and would tear our team apart. What is wrong and happening to us? The perfect scenario is after acquiring Clement, JR, once again, is opening his wallet and sign Pierzynski and/or Polanco! Man, that would make this offseason the best ever! Look at our lineup: Starting Pitchers (in rotation order): 1) Buehrle 18 wins 2) Garcia 18 wins 3) Clement 15 wins 4) Contreras 14 wins 5) Garland 12 wins Starting Batters (in batting order): 1) Podsednik CF 2) Rowand LF 3) Thomas or Everett DH 4) Konerko 1B 5) Dye RF 6) Uribe SS 7) Crede 3B 8) Davis/Burke C 9) Harris 2B Bullpen (SOLID) First we get pissed that the sox don't spend now we are unhappy that they are spending. Why the hell do we care if they pay him ten million. If thats what they feel will make the team better its there money. Can't have it both ways. That's the going rate today, if others are willing to pay that than thats what will happen. Its just one of those years. After Clement Perez's asking price will go up as well. Its the market, just like last year, there were a bunch of cheap guys out there. The market drives the price, whether they are worth it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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