AnthraxFan93 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Dick, by god I hope you are right, I want hudson more than RJ or Clement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Exactly. Some Sox fans complain that we are cheap, well if you want a guy this off season, you HAVE to over pay, look at Benson, he set the bar. Now people will complain if we sign Clement that we over paid There is a reason people are afraid for the Sox to give Clement the salary he is commanding. If he doesn't pan out to be any more than a .500 pitcher, we've got an older Jon Garland for twice the salary. Then, we would also be limited in the future when it comes to acquiring other players. There are several here, me included, that are afraid the $6 million a year we have on the books for Contreras will prove to be a waste. If they both crap out, we can forget about winning anything till '07 or '08. It's a big risk and the Sox haven't had the best luck with supposed "sure things" (ex: D Wells, Colon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 You crack me up!! He cracks everybody up, especially himself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 What is Oakland asking from us for Hudson? From different newspaper accounts, the A's would want a SP and bullpen help Whether that means a SP prospect or not who knows. But a deal starting w/ Garland, and Marte? BMac and Marte? http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c...SPG1HACOP91.DTL The Newark star Ledger said that Beane had expressed reservation about trading Hudson to an AL playoff contender unless he was overwhelmed, as NYY were looking for a team to do a 3 way to get Hudson [mentioned the sox w/ Vazquez] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 He cracks everybody up, especially himself! speak for yourself funny boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 What is Oakland asking from us for Hudson? They no longer need a second baseman, since they acquired Keith Ginter. Billy Beane is definitely after young pitcher, so B-Mac would probably have to be included. The A's could always upgrade in the pen, so a guy like Adkins, Cotts, Politte etc. could be included. And the A's will probably want another prospect, in the lines of Chris Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 There is a reason people are afraid for the Sox to give Clement the salary he is commanding. If he doesn't pan out to be any more than a .500 pitcher, we've got an older Jon Garland for twice the salary. Then, we would also be limited in the future when it comes to acquiring other players. There are several here, me included, that are afraid the $6 million a year we have on the books for Contreras will prove to be a waste. If they both crap out, we can forget about winning anything till '07 or '08. It's a big risk and the Sox haven't had the best luck with supposed "sure things" (ex: D Wells, Colon). Don Cooper needs to bring out the best in Jose and and our pitching staff, otherwise, he's probably as good as gone at the end of 2005, which I know will please some around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I think the point here is we will have a rotation locked long-term which could mean a world of difference in the future. Clement has talent...a lot of it, regardless of what others say. If these other pitchers put up the numbers Clement is putting up (wins/losses aside), I think they'd have similar offers on the table. I don't care what anyone says...a rotation with Buehrle, Garcia, Clement, Conteraras and Garland is one I'd love to see... I also think the rumored number of 3/30 is a bit inflated...it's probably more like 3/24 with incentives or some such thing. -y2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 speak for yourself funny boy. I just did, did I not? What's the matter with you today, are you nuts or what? Take a pill, please. Wills is worried it's Guys Nite Out tonite in downtown Naperville (officially), he thinks there might be way too much salami If they are sniffing around Hudson, I'm very happy. I don't think we have the right match with Oakland though, and Hudson will not come cheap in terms of talent. Of the pitchers out there, he is the best for the long haul, if they could sign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 zFrom different newspaper accounts, the A's would want a SP and bullpen help Whether that means a SP prospect or not who knows. But a deal starting w/ Garland, and Marte? BMac and Marte? http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c...SPG1HACOP91.DTL The Newark star Ledger said that Beane had expressed reservation about trading Hudson to an AL playoff contender unless he was overwhelmed, as NYY were looking for a team to do a 3 way to get Hudson [mentioned the sox w/ Vazquez] Ok ... let's consider this possibility ... The Yanks move Vazquez to us along with enough cash to limit his salary to about $6 million a year ... We move Garland and Marte ... the Yanks get Hudson. Then we sign Clement above and beyond the acquisition of Vazquez to replace Garland. Just popped into my head and not much thought put into this. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I just did, did I not? What's the matter with you today, are you nuts or what? Take a pill, please. Wills is worried it's Guys Nite Out tonite in downtown Naperville (officially), he thinks there might be way too much salami If they are sniffing around Hudson, I'm very happy. I don't think we have the right match with Oakland though, and Hudson will not come cheap in terms of talent. Of the pitchers out there, he is the best for the long haul, if they could sign him. I have no idea if they are sniffing around hudson other than Dick allens source. Eitherway we will get another starter, and I truly believe we will fill another hole even if that means expanding a payroll a few million dollars. Liek I said about guys night out, if I wanted to talk to woman for more than five minutes I would talk to my wife, she is better looking than most anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 They no longer need a second baseman, since they acquired Keith Ginter. Billy Beane is definitely after young pitcher, so B-Mac would probably have to be included. The A's could always upgrade in the pen, so a guy like Adkins, Cotts, Politte etc. could be included. And the A's will probably want another prospect, in the lines of Chris Young. Not sure Beane would want Cotts back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Ok ... let's consider this possibility ... The Yanks move Vazquez to us along with enough cash to limit his salary to about $6 million a year ... We move Garland and Marte ... the Yanks get Hudson. Then we sign Clement above and beyond the acquisition of Vazquez to replace Garland. Just popped into my head and not much thought put into this. Thoughts? That's about an increase of $11 to $12 million in salary I think, so it'll all depend on what the final payroll is, and the difference would have just decreased too, with the signing of Uribe to a 3 year deal today as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Without knowing what Oakland wants for Hudson, how can you know that is the intelligent choice? If Oakland wants a package like AZ wants, plus Hudson wants a 5 year $15 million extension, is it still the intelligent choice? With as many unknowns are surround Tim Hudson, it is difficult to slam the Sox for not getting him. Yes quite the conundrum, it's like the winter 1997 all over again. After being the runner up in the central for 3 straight yrs the Sox are looking to aquire a pitcher to put us over the hump, sound familiar? In '97 the choices were: An aging multi-CYA winner who's career was winding down - Clemens A young up and coming CYA winner in his walk yr - Pedro And a 30ish Cub pitcher who had put up good stats there in the previous 2 yrs but not alot of wins - Navarro Of course the aging multi-CYA winner was not washed up and would go on to win multiple CYA's. The young up and coming CYA winner would go on to win multiple CYA's while dominating the league(and maybe his era). And the 30ish Cub pitcher would...........................................come to the Sox. In '04 the choices are: An aging multi-CYA winner who's career is winding down - Johnson. A young up and coming CYA winner in his walk yr - Hudson. And a 30ish Cub pitcher who has put up good stats there in the previous 2 yrs but not alot of wins - Clement. Do you ever get the feeling that if you got an opportunity to do a "do over" in life that you'd make better choices or are you resigned to the fact that history repeats itself. Such is life being Sox fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 They no longer need a second baseman, since they acquired Keith Ginter. Billy Beane is definitely after young pitcher, so B-Mac would probably have to be included. The A's could always upgrade in the pen, so a guy like Adkins, Cotts, Politte etc. could be included. And the A's will probably want another prospect, in the lines of Chris Young. at least in a deal like that the sox can keep garland as a number five Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Ok ... let's consider this possibility ... The Yanks move Vazquez to us along with enough cash to limit his salary to about $6 million a year ... We move Garland and Marte ... the Yanks get Hudson. Then we sign Clement above and beyond the acquisition of Vazquez to replace Garland. Just popped into my head and not much thought put into this. Thoughts? Awfully rich for the White Sox' blood Yas. I like your thinking but it's a lot of coin. From the Obvious Department: KW is not going after some back of the rotation guy, he wants a top end type. When have the White Sox ever been in play with guys like Johnson, Clement, Hudson, etc.? Notice we aren't hearing any talk of guys like Robert Person, etc. It's a breath of fresh air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 That's about an increase of $11 to $12 million in salary I think, so it'll all depend on what the final payroll is, and the difference would have just decreased too, with the signing of Uribe to a 3 year deal today as well. Well I think the payroll would depend on how much money the Yanks give the Sox for Vazquez's contract as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Yes quite the conundrum, it's like the winter 1997 all over again. After being the runner up in the central for 3 straight yrs the Sox are looking to aquire a pitcher to put us over the hump, sound familiar? In '97 the choices were: An aging multi-CYA winner who's career was winding down - Clemens A young up and coming CYA winner in his walk yr - Pedro And a 30ish Cub pitcher who had put up good stats there in the previous 2 yrs but not alot of wins - Navarro Of course the aging multi-CYA winner was not washed up and would go on to win multiple CYA's. The young up and coming CYA winner would go on to win multiple CYA's while dominating the league(and maybe his era). And the 30ish Cub pitcher would...........................................come to the Sox. In '04 the choices are: An aging multi-CYA winner who's career is winding down - Johnson. A young up and coming CYA winner in his walk yr - Hudson. And a 30ish Cub pitcher who has put up good stats there in the previous 2 yrs but not alot of wins - Clement. Do you ever get the feeling that if you got an opportunity to do a "do over" in life that you'd make better choices or are you resigned to the fact that history repeats itself. Such is life being Sox fans. ...destiny??? repeats itself?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Well I think the payroll would depend on how much money the Yanks give the Sox for Vazquez's contract as well. YASNY said we would probably pay about $6 million of Vazquez's salary. Vazquez @6mil Clement @9 or 10mil - [email protected] mill Marte$1.5 mill (I think) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Ok ... let's consider this possibility ... The Yanks move Vazquez to us along with enough cash to limit his salary to about $6 million a year ... We move Garland and Marte ... the Yanks get Hudson. Then we sign Clement above and beyond the acquisition of Vazquez to replace Garland. Just popped into my head and not much thought put into this. Thoughts? I think Beane won't move Hudson to Bos, or the Yanks because the A's have to go through them to get to the WS. The sox are a maybe as Beane probably thinks the sox aren't that big of a threat. More likely is Beane deals w/ an NL team, like the Braves, LA, or FLA. I think the safe move is to sign a FA now. Clement's window is closing, and the other SP's left will prob. get into bidding wars the sox won't likely win or want to win. Yet Hudson's salary could fit in another deal down the line, w/ only the A's. I don't think the sox get two SP with big long term contracts in Clement and Vazquez would be smart or fit in the Sox budget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Yes quite the conundrum, it's like the winter 1997 all over again. After being the runner up in the central for 3 straight yrs the Sox are looking to aquire a pitcher to put us over the hump, sound familiar? In '97 the choices were: An aging multi-CYA winner who's career was winding down - Clemens A young up and coming CYA winner in his walk yr - Pedro And a 30ish Cub pitcher who had put up good stats there in the previous 2 yrs but not alot of wins - Navarro Of course the aging multi-CYA winner was not washed up and would go on to win multiple CYA's. The young up and coming CYA winner would go on to win multiple CYA's while dominating the league(and maybe his era). And the 30ish Cub pitcher would...........................................come to the Sox. In '04 the choices are: An aging multi-CYA winner who's career is winding down - Johnson. A young up and coming CYA winner in his walk yr - Hudson. And a 30ish Cub pitcher who has put up good stats there in the previous 2 yrs but not alot of wins - Clement. Do you ever get the feeling that if you got an opportunity to do a "do over" in life that you'd make better choices or are you resigned to the fact that history repeats itself. Such is life being Sox fans. Wow. Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I don't know if this has been posted already, apologies if it has, but I found this from the Boston Herald on the Clement situation. Clement is believed to be weighing offers from the Sox, Anaheim Angels, Toronto Blue Jays and Arizona Diamondbacks, with the Sox and Angels leading the way with similar three-year offers worth $24-25 million. Toronto's offer is believed to be three years for $22.5-23 million, while Arizona is considered a last resort. Anaheim is expected to go as high as $27 million, if necessary, but the Sox likely will not increase their offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 YASNY said we would probably pay about $6 million of Vazquez's salary. Vazquez @6mil Clement @9 or 10mil - [email protected] mill Marte$1.5 mill (I think) Considering that Garland + Marte = approximately the $6 million on Vazquez's salary ... and we are still talking to Clement, this might be doable from a Sox perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I don't know if this has been posted already, apologies if it has, but I found this from the Boston Herald on the Clement situation. Yes. And its the Red Sox who they're talking about. One of these days the White sox will win and force the baseball world to differentiate between the two teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox1422 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 10 million a year for Clement is a complete joke. I hope this is not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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