qwerty Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 How? Do you really think they can win in the next couple years? It's the best pitcher in baseball for an old hitter, a good starter, and a very promising reliever. The first 2 they might not have for more than a couple years. Penny can possibly be a stud and brazoban was pretty damn good last year. I would not consider green, who is 32 an old hitter. He was not exactly great the last two years for the money he is making which is why i feel they have to be getting money from somone. Say roughly have of his salaray? If that is the case i think this is a good trade. They had no use for johnson, they got something for his at least. They could have been stupid and waited to trade him at the trading dead-line and only get half of what they got now. Or they could have just not traded him at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Nothing to lament here: Az wanted a solid major league starter in return, and the best we could offer was Garland. Giving them MB would have been insane Glad we stayed on the sidelines in this one. I must say, yet another in a series of bizarre trades for the Dodgers; they made a weird one last summer giving an all-star catcher and a stud set-up man for Penny et al. And now they give up a hitter (salary dump?) and Penny for Vasquez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 If the season started with the team we have right now, we would be competing with the Tigers for 3rd place in the division. It's that simple. Remember how bad we were last year without Frank and Maggs? Well, it will be even worse without Carlos. I expect Dye and Podsednik to be good, but they aren't difference makers like Lee is. Will someone please explain to me why KW wasn't fired after the debacles of the last two years? He's the laughingstock of general managers in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 I must say, yet another in a series of bizarre trades for the Dodgers; they made a weird one last summer giving an all-star catcher and a stud set-up man for Penny et al. And now they give up a hitter (salary dump?) and Penny for Vasquez. I'm wondering how the hell Dodgers bullpen will survive this move. Mota traded last summer because Brozaban was emerging as a suitable replacement. Now that he's traded, who sets up Gagne? Edwin Jackson? Maybe there's another stud pitching prospect I'm unaware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Penny can possibly be a stud and brazoban was pretty damn good last year. I would not consider green, who is 32 an old hitter. He was not exactly great the last two years for the money he is making which is why i feel they have to be getting money from somone. Say roughly have of his salaray? If that is the case i think this is a good trade. They had no use for johnson, they got something for his at least. They could have been stupid and waited to trade him at the trading dead-line and only get half of what they got now. Or they could have just not traded him at all. Yeah, I guess once you've dedicated your 110+ loss team to not rebuilding, might as well go full throttle. I like all 3 players, but I still can't believe they aren't interested in any younger players. But I guess once you've signed Clayton AND Counsell as starters, you may as well start printing those WS tickets. Given their direction, okay, I get it. But I still think this is one magnificently stupid offseason for the Diamondbacks, taken as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain video Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 RJ wanted to be a Yankee and now he is a Yankee. The rich keep getting richer. In my opinion, Arizona asked for way too much. Not making the trade may have been the smartest thing KW has done. As for Atlanta, they flat out stole Hudson from Oakland. I agree that Beane wanted him in the NL. If we sit on some of this money, maybe we get lucky and snag Sheets from Milwaukee next June/July. Sheets is the best of the bunch. Better to spend 40mil over four years for Sheets than to overpay for Clement or Perez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 How? Do you really think they can win in the next couple years? It's the best pitcher in baseball for an old hitter, a good starter, and a very promising reliever. The first 2 they might not have for more than a couple years. Don't bet against the Diamondbacks winning more games next year than the Dodgers....... I'm not predicting it, but it wouldn't surprise me at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Yeah, I guess once you've dedicated your 110+ loss team to not rebuilding, might as well go full throttle. I like all 3 players, but I still can't believe they aren't interested in any younger players. But I guess once you've signed Clayton AND Counsell as starters, you may as well start printing those WS tickets. Given their direction, okay, I get it. But I still think this is one magnificently stupid offseason for the Diamondbacks, taken as a whole. Troy glaus and russ ortiz is even funnier than counsell and clayton to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 RJ wanted to be a Yankee and now he is a Yankee. The rich keep getting richer. In my opinion, Arizona asked for way too much. Not making the trade may have been the smartest thing KW has done. As for Atlanta, they flat out stole Hudson from Oakland. I agree that Beane wanted him in the NL. If we sit on some of this money, maybe we get lucky and snag Sheets from Milwaukee next June/July. Sheets is the best of the bunch. Better to spend 40mil over four years for Sheets than to overpay for Clement or Perez. Welcome to soxtalk. Expect sheets to get locked up this off-season or sometime this upcoming season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 If the season started with the team we have right now, we would be competing with the Tigers for 3rd place in the division. It's that simple. Remember how bad we were last year without Frank and Maggs? Well, it will be even worse without Carlos. I expect Dye and Podsednik to be good, but they aren't difference makers like Lee is. Will someone please explain to me why KW wasn't fired after the debacles of the last two years? He's the laughingstock of general managers in baseball. How so? We still have the second best rotation in the division, and we now have the best bullpen in the division. Our offense is weaker, but the addition of Pierzinski makes the lineup a lot more dangerous, pushing everyone down in the order. Kenny isn't done yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xero Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Good god it's finally over. Back to reality folks, at least for those of you who were living out of reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Kenny isn't done yet... I can't help but to think that you're right. But I worry more with each day that passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 If we sit on some of this money, maybe we get lucky and snag Sheets from Milwaukee next June/July. Sheets is the best of the bunch. Better to spend 40mil over four years for Sheets than to overpay for Clement or Perez. I will not accept this organization sitting on money. I have no influence on their decisions, and the most I could do is pout like a b****, but there are far too many areas of our team which 6 million could benefit. Williams doesn't trade Carlos Lee for Podsednik/Vizcaino to hold up money for NEXT July. About acquiring Sheets: How if we're not in contention, or Brewers are? You can't reassure yourself of anything which may occur seven months from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 How so? We still have the second best rotation in the division, and we now have the best bullpen in the division. Our offense is weaker, but the addition of Pierzinski makes the lineup a lot more dangerous, pushing everyone down in the order. Kenny isn't done yet... First, I don't think we'll add A.J. Pierz. Rather, the Dodgers will sign him now they have a lot of money to spend. I couldn't disagree more with you that we have the best bullpen in the division. The Twins bullpen is still a hell of a lot better than the Sox. They have a better closer (Nathan), better set-up men (Romero and Rincon) and better long relievers (Crain and Balfour). Let's not forget the young guys that Cleveland has in their lineup that will only get better. Adding A. Boone will help their team, and there's no way their bullpen is as bad as it was at the beginning of the season last year. Again, this is how I feel if things stay the way they are right now. If KW can get another starting pitcher, my confidence in this team will grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain video Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 AJ Burnett wouldn't be a bad pick up if we could get him cheap. I reviewed his stas and they are not the greatest, yet he has "front-of-the-rotation" potential. If Hudson can be had for Cruz and two prospects, Burnett can be had for a lot less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Man, I know I'm overreacting, but I don't think I've ever been so disapointed to be a White Sox fan.... I really didn't expect KW to land RJ, but now it looks like Clement isn't coming here, and I just think the loser in the bidding war for him will sign Perez (looks like Angels now). What can KW really do now? I hope he pulls something out of his ass, I would be pissed if this was the team come opening day (even if they add Pryz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Troy glaus and russ ortiz is even funnier than counsell and clayton to me. Ortiz was definitely their worst move, Glaus was probably foolish, but it makes some sense. When he's on his feet he's a great hitter. I just don't get this philosophy. Take away RJ, add Penny and Ortiz. If you gained anything, it isn't much. Brazobahn is good, he'll help the bullpen. Take away Sexson, add Glaus and Green. Okay, that's definitely an upgrade. But overall, does it make you a contender? Not even close. It just seems to me like any team signing Counsell and Clayton as regulars might be able to convince itself that its flaws are deeper than this, that it needs an overhaul. Or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 I will not accept this organization sitting on money. I have no influence on their decisions, and the most I could do is pout like a b****, but there are far too many areas of our team which 6 million could benefit. Williams doesn't trade Carlos Lee for Podsednik/Vizcaino to hold up money for NEXT July. About acquiring Sheets: How if we're not in contention, or Brewers are? You can't reassure yourself of anything which may occur seven months from now. Would you be singing the same song if the Sox are tied with the Twins on July 30 and don't have any money left to go get someone else? I'm not much one for quoting Billy Beane, but his belief has always been take a team to spring training that has a chance to win, evaluate your club over the first four months of the season and then go get what you need to give them a boost to finish strong. Granted they haven't advanced in the playoffs, but I'd take their performance the past 3-4 years over the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 ESPNEWS: Trade not officially done, Randy is thinking about staying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Oh my God. What the f***. LET THIS END! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Christ, someone on ESPN news feels this Randy Johnson trade is "far from over," and perhaps Randy Johnson has "changed his mind because of Arizona's moves." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 I'm not much one for quoting Billy Beane, but his belief has always been take a team to spring training that has a chance to win, evaluate your club over the first four months of the season and then go get what you need to give them a boost to finish strong. Granted they haven't advanced in the playoffs, but I'd take their performance the past 3-4 years over the Sox. Yeah, but Beane also had 3 starters that he could count on to keep him in each game that they played. We have two, and even they aren't exactly dominating pitchers on a consistent basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 If this trade is completed... Good news: The Sox haven't grossly overpayed for Johnson Bad news: The Sox miss out on the biggest player to have ever ok'ed a trip to the South side. The Sox still don't have an answer to the f***ING rotation problem. The Sox will sketch Jason Grilli in as a number five in April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 If RJ is really pulling this s*** and I was the AZ management I would sit down with him and just ask him to accept it.... this needs to be over for them, because if they don't compete he'll be b****ing about a trade at the deadline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted December 17, 2004 Author Share Posted December 17, 2004 f***ing hell... will someone just finish this damn trade so people can move on with thier lives...and we get to watch our roulette wheel of 5th starters again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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