jackie hayes Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Podesta also got that team into the playoffs, and he's still putting his mark on that team.... I just think KW miscalculated by going after all these high end pitchers, I just hope he has a few backup plans because I defended the Lee trade thinking he would spend the money in the offseason, not in July Who really knows with DePodesta -- he hasn't had a chance to really remake the roster, it's been one season. I don't see how anyone can bash him or praise him at this point. So far, Beane's been successful, and Epstein's made some great moves (although this offseason is a good test). I think the track record is pretty good so far, overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Who really knows with DePodesta -- he hasn't had a chance to really remake the roster, it's been one season. I don't see how anyone can bash him or praise him at this point. So far, Beane's been successful, and Epstein's made some great moves (although this offseason is a good test). I think the track record is pretty good so far, overall. Right, what I'm arguing is that the Dodgers and Red Sox have hefty payrolls, so unless you're the dips*** in Baltimore you have a huge competitive advantage to put a solid team on the field, no matter what your theory of constructing a team is. Tornto has such a low payroll that no philosophy would work except 5-10 players have career years... What I'm saying is the A's have a similar payroll to the White Sox (possibly less?), so I think the White Sox may be a good team to try this theory out... hell nothing else has worked (Only thing I'm worried about is The Hawk would die upon hearing the news) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 I can see it now. Diaz is ready to throw the first pitch. He is a control pitcher who has pinpoint control. Ball one. He is a proven winner in the minors. Ball two. He has an electric makeup. And there is a drive, and this one is out of here. Wow tape measure shot. Well it didnt travel as far as borchards. And Cleveland is up 1-0. Neil Cotts and Artie Munoz are warmin in the pen. The sox cant seem to get any consistancy in this series. Jon Garland pitched one hell of a game last night, outside the 5th inning where he gave up a grand slam to Travis Hafner. Grilli looks to be the next to get a shot as the sox are out of options at the number 5 spot. *SHUTTERS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 les see what happens b4 we get 2 angry guys theirs a lot of off-season left and its impossible to predict whats going on in KW's mind AMEN, how many people predicted the SPOD trade correctly???? therefor the rest of us dont really know anything about what is going to happen trade or free agent-wise, because more than 75 percent of the rumors were false, and nobody on this message board could predict what is going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Its going to come down to... Dustin Hermanson, Shawn Chacon, Jason Grilli and the like. I will never, ever support Kenny Williams again if he fails to bring in a starting pitcher this off-season. That is simply pathetic. You're on the clock Kenny. Spring Training isn't as far off as you'd like to believe and NO, the Sox nation will not be able to stomach trading Carlos Lee for Scott f***ing Podsednik and getting no starting pitcher. This could be the biggest salary dump in years and we all missed it. I want to support you Kenny, but if you don't use that money wisely, I'll be calling for your head. For that, he should be fired. Holy s***, take a deep breath there... Look. The Score reported two different things today -- first, that the Sox had three years, thirty million on the table for Clement. Then, they reported the Sox were out of the bidding, and none of this came from the guy, who at the current point, is a lot more reliable than ANYONE working for the Score, in Bruce Levine. I just think that's a load of bulls***. The second thing might be true, but, I highly doubt -- HIGHLY DOUBT -- that Clement would reject a ten million per year contract. And, I also can't believe that the Angels are going much over ten million per year. I think all of the teams interested -- White Sox, Red Sox, Dodgers, and Angels -- are still in the bidding. I also believe that no one has topped a nine million per year deal, too. Clement, while not very appealing at nine million per year, is someone we really need. Overpaying in money at this point, while it may bite us in the ass in a couple years, is a must at this point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Holy s***, take a deep breath there... Look. The Score reported two different things today -- first, that the Sox had three years, thirty million on the table for Clement. Then, they reported the Sox were out of the bidding, and none of this came from the guy, who at the current point, is a lot more reliable than ANYONE working for the Score, in Bruce Levine. I just think that's a load of bulls***. The second thing might be true, but, I highly doubt -- HIGHLY DOUBT -- that Clement would reject a ten million per year contract. And, I also can't believe that the Angels are going much over ten million per year. I think all of the teams interested -- White Sox, Red Sox, Dodgers, and Angels -- are still in the bidding. I also believe that no one has topped a nine million per year deal, too. Clement, while not very appealing at nine million per year, is someone we really need. Overpaying in money at this point, while it may bite us in the ass in a couple years, is a must at this point... But if the 10 million dollar contract is actually the usual money on the backend, deferred, team option, you will get your money later crap that we tried to pull on Colon. You can kiss Clement goodbye. If the contract is fair market value maybe we get a home town discount. We will see I would say in the next day or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Right, what I'm arguing is that the Dodgers and Red Sox have hefty payrolls, so unless you're the dips*** in Baltimore you have a huge competitive advantage to put a solid team on the field, no matter what your theory of constructing a team is. Tornto has such a low payroll that no philosophy would work except 5-10 players have career years... What I'm saying is the A's have a similar payroll to the White Sox (possibly less?), so I think the White Sox may be a good team to try this theory out... hell nothing else has worked (Only thing I'm worried about is The Hawk would die upon hearing the news) Yeah, won't happen w/ the Sox -- if nothing else, Rooney and Farmer couldn't use their eternally funny joke that they've found a use for Bill James' books -- propping up a table leg... They're great announcers, but they need to get out more if they find that funny. Or watch more tv, something.... Personally, I'm indifferent to a stats guy or a nonstats guy. Schuerholz may be the best around, and he's not a stats guy. And this is getting ahead anyway -- I think KW has this year at least to prove himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 I want to say that around 6:30 ESPN was basically reporting the same thing... that the White Sox were out of it... it's also possible that the early report of the 3/30 was a screwup from their source and they were talking about the Red Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted December 17, 2004 Author Share Posted December 17, 2004 Holy s***, take a deep breath there... Look. The Score reported two different things today -- first, that the Sox had three years, thirty million on the table for Clement. Then, they reported the Sox were out of the bidding, and none of this came from the guy, who at the current point, is a lot more reliable than ANYONE working for the Score, in Bruce Levine. I just think that's a load of bulls***. The second thing might be true, but, I highly doubt -- HIGHLY DOUBT -- that Clement would reject a ten million per year contract. And, I also can't believe that the Angels are going much over ten million per year. I think all of the teams interested -- White Sox, Red Sox, Dodgers, and Angels -- are still in the bidding. I also believe that no one has topped a nine million per year deal, too. Clement, while not very appealing at nine million per year, is someone we really need. Overpaying in money at this point, while it may bite us in the ass in a couple years, is a must at this point... Good post. Good post. I think this talk of being out of the Clement race set me off. I never thought Randy was going to happen, but when I heard we were out of the Clement race, I lost it. You are right, Kenny has some time to make something happen. I'm just hoping he does, because many of us that have supported him in the past, will look like a bunch of suckers if our starting rotation has the names: Hermanson, Grilli, or Diaz in it. The difference between me and a guy like...um...say... >...is that I have supported Kenny in the past and I still had faith in him going into this off-season. I just never thought he'd let the pitching situation get as desperate as it is now. Wow. Ok, deep breath. I feel much better now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRKARNO Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 I hate him as much as the next guy, but overlooked free agent of the day: Kevin Millwood. He's been "overlooked" because he's asking for money that he wont even get in this market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Good post. Good post. I think this talk of being out of the Clement race set me off. I never thought Randy was going to happen, but when I heard we were out of the Clement race, I lost it. You are right, Kenny has some time to make something happen. I'm just hoping he does, because many of us that have supported him in the past, will look like a bunch of suckers if our starting rotation has the names: Hermanson, Grilli, or Diaz in it. The difference between me and a guy like...um...say... >...is that I have supported Kenny in the past and I still had faith in him going into this off-season. I just never thought he'd let the pitching situation get as desperate as it is now. Wow. Ok, deep breath. I feel much better now. Oh, don't get me wrong. If Diaz/Grilli/someone else is our fifth starter to start the season, I'll be the first one b****ing and moaning. *(Diaz to a lesser extent, while there seems to be a lot of lust for him on this board, me -- along with GHCivic -- are pretty high on his bandwagon -- If I'm wrong in this assumption Cheat, give me the nono smiley...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 I can see it now. Diaz is ready to throw the first pitch. He is a control pitcher who has pinpoint control. Ball one. He is a proven winner in the minors. Ball two. He has an electric makeup. And there is a drive, and this one is out of here. Wow tape measure shot. Well it didnt travel as far as borchards. And Cleveland is up 1-0. Neil Cotts and Artie Munoz are warmin in the pen. The sox cant seem to get any consistancy in this series. Jon Garland pitched one hell of a game last night, outside the 5th inning where he gave up a grand slam to Travis Hafner. Grilli looks to be the next to get a shot as the sox are out of options at the number 5 spot. *SHUTTERS Your grasp of our system is staggering :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Yeah, won't happen w/ the Sox -- if nothing else, Rooney and Farmer couldn't use their eternally funny joke that they've found a use for Bill James' books -- propping up a table leg... They're great announcers, but they need to get out more if they find that funny. Or watch more tv, something.... Personally, I'm indifferent to a stats guy or a nonstats guy. Schuerholz may be the best around, and he's not a stats guy. And this is getting ahead anyway -- I think KW has this year at least to prove himself. If I'm Sox management and look at the potential worst case scenario (not getting a legit starter for the rotation) rationaly (which is a stretch for Sox management I know) I would make the simple argument that look, KW was making public comments about adding a top of the rotation starter and I would hold him to this. It's horrible PR for the team (I can't wait for some of the columns that are upcoming). KW has to start being held responsible for this team constantly failing to make the playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 I am no longer a fan of Sox fans. They whine too much. I'm starting to feel the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Well we can add BMAC to the list of people that can compete for the 5th starter role for 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 If I'm Sox management and look at the potential worst case scenario (not getting a legit starter for the rotation) rationaly (which is a stretch for Sox management I know) I would make the simple argument that look, KW was making public comments about adding a top of the rotation starter and I would hold him to this. It's horrible PR for the team (I can't wait for some of the columns that are upcoming). KW has to start being held responsible for this team constantly failing to make the playoffs Are we arguing? B/c I agree w/ you... I'm really down on KW now, but I think it's fair that after hiring a new manager and changing the team philosophy he has 2 years to prove himself (I might even say 3 if I didn't disagree with him so much). Not that I think he's doing the right thing -- but thinking about it from management's perspective, you made a commitment to this guy and he's apparently worked hard to make this team a winner. You sided with him when he signed Ozzie and took the team in a different direction. As much as I don't like it, the Sox have got to let KW play out this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Millwood's an interesting situation now. The Braves who were likely the favorites, have a pretty full rotation now, with the trade of Hudson and Smoltz moving into the rotation, they don't have much money left for upgrades either. St. Louis will probably become the favorites for him, although some team in desperate need for a pitcher in a pitcher's park (like Detroit because Millwood is a flyball pitcher) could do a lot worse than to sign him to a 1 or 2 year deal cheaply with incentives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Are we arguing? B/c I agree w/ you... lol, no not arguing... one drawback about computers is there is no tone to the words... just expressing my panic/end of finals/worked all day hungover attitude today.... This is why I like this site, good conversations!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Well we can add BMAC to the list of people that can compete for the 5th starter role for 2006. Doubt it, he should realistically start in double a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted December 17, 2004 Author Share Posted December 17, 2004 lol, no not arguing... one drawback about computers is there is no tone to the words... just expressing my panic/end of finals/worked all day hungover attitude today.... This is why I like this site, good conversations!! Amen brother. You can probably attribute this thread to my post-finals mayhem. However, having finished my last final today, I couldn't be happier. No school for a month, life is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 If I'm Sox management and look at the potential worst case scenario (not getting a legit starter for the rotation) rationaly (which is a stretch for Sox management I know) I would make the simple argument that look, KW was making public comments about adding a top of the rotation starter and I would hold him to this. It's horrible PR for the team (I can't wait for some of the columns that are upcoming). KW has to start being held responsible for this team constantly failing to make the playoffs No, he doesn't! If a general manager assembles a club capable of winning a division, and that group fails to perform, the GM has immunity because he tried. That's how it works in the business world! If Williams misses out on Perez/Clement, will this begin the campaign to assure Sox fans our rotation doesn't need further improvements? I'm placing money on the following KW quotes: -"We feel comfortable with our current rotation." -"Grilli has shown promise in the 5th starters role." -"Ultimately, we felt this rotation is more than capable of winning the division and advancing far into the playoffs." -"If our team is in contention come July, I'll create the proper trades I ignored the previous offseason. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Amen brother. You can probably attribute this thread to my post-finals mayhem. However, having finished my last final today, I couldn't be happier. No school for a month, life is good. Yeah, this is my last break before I have to study for the Bar Exam and get a real job, so I'm going to enjoy it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 lol, no not arguing... one drawback about computers is there is no tone to the words... just expressing my panic/end of finals/worked all day hungover attitude today.... This is why I like this site, good conversations!! I didn't think so, but I just wanted to be sure. One of your posts started w/ 'Right, what I'm arguing...' (or something like that), so, just checking. If this is your last break, get to work on getting rid of that hangover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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