Chicago Tribune Sox update

[AddisonStSox]

Cotts should be in triple a all next year.

Put it into context qwert.

 

Do any of these clowns deserve a crack at the starting rotation next year?

[qwerty]

Put it into context qwert.

 

Do any of these clowns deserve a crack at the starting rotation next year?

No, grilli should not even be on the fourty man roster like rotoworld said. He is just not good. Diaz would be lights out in the pen i believe. His numbers in the pen last year were pretty damn good. But if he ever wants to start he sneeds another pitch like yasny said. Cotts cannot get a lefty out to save his life it seems. Isn't he a left handed specialist? Cotts needs to be down in triple a to work on control and another pitch. Until then i don't see him doing much better than last year. Yes, i do know that he got screwed by jackson but he did not look overly impressive to me.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Put it into context qwert.

 

Do any of these clowns deserve a crack at the starting rotation next year?

I'll put it into context -- Check out Johan Satan's stats -- http://thebaseballcube.com/profiles/SA/tbc512.asp

 

Look at his stats from 2000 and 2001, while he spent the entire time on the roster of teams that didn't go to the playoffs.

 

Then look at 2002, where he started the season off in AAA, with the express purpose of perfecting the change-up.

 

With Neal's sneaky fastball, the Change-up is(not yet, but it will be) his out pitch... RIght now all his change-ups do is get express tickets to the bleachers.

 

Let him learn that pitch in the minors, and he's a great major league pitcher -- I'd pencil him in at #3.

[fathom]

Difference between Johan and Cotts is that Santana has 3 pitches, while Cotts only has 1 right now. The only reason that Santana was in the majors in 2000 was cause he was a Rule V draftee, and had to remain at that level to remain on the Twins. Also, Santana has a more lively arm than does Cotts. However, on this current staff, I could see how people would think that Cotts could be a potential number 3 pitcher. It wouldn't shock me at all if Cotts was our number 4 pitcher by the all-star break next year.

[southsideirish71]

I'll put it into context -- Check out Johan Satan's stats -- http://thebaseballcube.com/profiles/SA/tbc512.asp

 

Look at his stats from 2000 and 2001, while he spent the entire time on the roster of teams that didn't go to the playoffs.

 

Then look at 2002, where he started the season off in AAA, with the express purpose of perfecting the change-up. 

 

With Neal's sneaky fastball, the Change-up is(not yet, but it will be) his out pitch... RIght now all his change-ups do is get express tickets to the bleachers.

 

Let him learn that pitch in the minors, and he's a great major league pitcher -- I'd pencil him in at #3.

Its not that he needs just to learn a changeup.

 

He needs to learn how to pitch. Johan has pretty pinpoint control. His stuff is nasty, but its his ability to get that nasty stuff where he wants to throw it that makes him dominant.

 

Cotts has a few things to learn before he becomes a starting pitcher.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Its not that he needs just to learn a changeup.

 

He needs to learn how to pitch.  Johan has pretty pinpoint control.  His stuff is nasty, but its his ability to get that nasty stuff where he wants to throw it that makes him dominant. 

 

Cotts has a few things to learn before he becomes a starting pitcher.

I wonder what you would have said about Johan's pinpoint control while he was putting up a 6.49 ERA over 86 innings, walking 5.7/9IP

 

Meanwhile Neal has just 78 major league innings under his belt and his walk rate is less than Johans was.

 

But I'm sure you actually clicked the link:rolly

[southsideirish71]

I would question your projection of Cotts stats to say he is the next Johan. What next Grilli is John Smoltz and Diaz is Curt Schilling.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I would question your projection of Cotts stats to say he is the next Johan.  What next Grilli is John Smoltz and Diaz is Curt Schilling.

I never said he was the next Johan,(though I seem to recall posting shillings early stats to you just yesterday, I'm sure you would have run him out of town too) I was backing up qwerty's assertion that he should be in the minors for some extra development time... It's what's best for him in the long run. Given the right time to develop, He WILL be a good starter.

 

Some reasons why I think that(he should get some more develpment time),

-He hasn't spent any time at AAA

-Charlotte's a bandbox, let him learn to pitch with short porches

-let him learn how to get out of his own jams -- He was never allowed to this year. Ozzie used kid gloves with him.

 

Some reasons why I think he'll be a good #3,

- His minor league HR rate. Guys with low HR rates in the minors usually succeed when they get their shot at the bigs

- 11+K/9 in the minors

- less hits than IP last season.

- improving control

[whitesox91403]

OK, I agree that Cotts needs to go back to Triple A. So what lefty do you suggest take his spot in the pen? My vote would go to Schoeinweis.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

On chicagosports.com, there's an article that states that Grilli will likely go into spring training with the 5th spot his to lose... :fyou KW.

 

Also, it says that Ben Davis will definitely be offered abritration.  I can't see the Sox spending like 1.5 million on Davis and also offer A.J. Pierzynski like 3.5 million a year.

 

Looks like another disaster of a season waiting too happen if you ask me.  Please, will any true Sox fan not believe KW's bulls*** if he says that they're saving money for June/July.  If you really want to make your team better, you play for the whole season, and not just half the season.  We can't trust KW to make good trades anyway.  The Sox could be 5 games out, and I'm sure he'd still look to trade Sweeney, Anderson, or McCarthy for some 35 year old injury plagued outfielder.

That is soooooooo f***ing asinine. If thats true then we'll be spinning the roulette wheel every 5th day to see which tee ball stand gets a chance to go out there and get lit up yet again. Roulette wheel = automatic loss every 5th game.

 

I dont want to believe that though until Spring Training actually gets here.

[Gene Honda Civic]

OK, I agree that Cotts needs to go back to Triple A. So what lefty do you suggest take his spot in the pen? My vote would go to Schoeinweis.

Vizciano -- and before you say what I know you're going to say, go look at Cotts' splits vs LHP, and then go look at Viz's splits vs LHP.

 

The Angels made the playoffs without a need for a LOOGY last year. Cotts wasn't one last year. Heck we didn't have one.

[qwerty]

OK, I agree that Cotts needs to go back to Triple A. So what lefty do you suggest take his spot in the pen? My vote would go to Schoeinweis.

Vizcaino can get lefties out better than cotts and schoe. He is my chose. He is not lefty but if he can get the outs so what is the difference?

 

Edit: Damn cheat, but i have been saying that since we got him.

[whitesox91403]

Vizciano -- and before you say what I know you're going to say, go look at Cotts' splits vs LHP, and then go look at Viz's splits vs LHP.

 

The Angels made the playoffs without a need for a LOOGY last year.  Cotts wasn't one last year.  Heck we didn't have one.

Point proven.

 

Excellent response.

[knightni]

Here's the link for anyone with a username/password.Sox article

Sox pitchers on spot

Buehrle: Pressure increases with loss of offensive pop

 

By Bob Foltman

Tribune staff reporter

 

December 17, 2004, 10:18 PM CST

 

 

Mark Buehrle knows there won't be too many nights next season like June 8, 2004.

 

The White Sox left-hander gave up two home runs and six runs in the first two innings of an interleague game against the Philadelphia Phillies but came away with a 14-11 victory on the strength of six Sox home runs.

 

With the loss of Magglio Ordonez to free agency and Carlos Lee to a trade, the Sox will be without much of the power that enabled them to lead the American League with 242 home runs in 2004.

 

"It kind of stinks losing those home runs because, as a pitcher, I like getting those runs," Buehrle said. "But we've tried it that way, and now we're going to [have] better speed. Try to steal bases, hit and run and play better defense than we have. Hopefully, that will work out."

 

Buehrle was in town from his Missouri home this week to pass out Christmas gifts to children from the Wentworth Gardens housing project. The shift in offensive emphasis, he said, will put more pressure on the Sox's pitching staff. Although the Sox hit the most home runs in the AL last season, they also allowed a league-high 224.

 

"As a group, we have to cut that down," Sox pitching coach Don Cooper said. "That's going to be a goal of ours."

 

Buehrle gave up 33 home runs in a league-high 2451/3 innings last season. Jon Garland gave up 34, Jose Contreras 31 (nine after joining after joining the Sox) and Freddy Garcia allowed 14 of his 22 after coming to Chicago.

 

The pitchers the Sox used in the fifth spot of the rotation gave up 55 home runs. Jason Grilli, who may go into spring training with the fifth spot to lose if the Sox don't sign free agent Matt Clement, gave up 11 home runs in only 45 innings.

 

"I want to cut down on walks, I want to cut down on hits, I want to cut down on home runs," Cooper said. "Our park is playing small these days, that's the reality of it. But I don't care what park we're playing in, we've got to look to put a dent in that."

 

Cooper likes the additions of Dustin Hermanson and Luis Vizcaino to the bullpen in front of closer Shingo Takatsu.

 

"Both these guys have good, live, quality arms with some experience under their belts," Cooper said. "On paper we have the makings of a good, solid bullpen and may be able to shorten the ballgame up."

 

Extra innings

 

The Sox signed outfielder Timo Perez to a one-year, $1 million contract Friday, avoiding arbitration with the veteran outfielder acquired last March. … The Sox still have to sign or offer arbitration to catcher Ben Davis, outfielder Aaron Rowand and pitcher Scott Schoeneweis. Davis and Rowand will definitely be back; Schoeneweis, represented by agent Scott Boras, might not be. … They also claimed right-handed pitcher Bobby Jenks off waivers from Anaheim and have designated pitcher Eduardo Villacis for assignment.

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

You guys should read the article first.....Fathom, you twisted the words of the article a bit:

The pitchers the Sox used in the fifth spot of the rotation gave up 55 home runs. Jason Grilli, who may go into spring training with the fifth spot to lose if the Sox don't sign free agent Matt Clement, gave up 11 home runs in only 45 innings.

That rate for 200 innings would project to be a mere 49.

[The Critic]

Diaz cannot be successful as starter in the AL with only two pitches.  No one can, unless one of them is a 110 mph heater.

My question after reading this is:

WHY hasn't Diaz learned a third pitch by now?

Are the Sox' minor league instructors not teaching him one, or is he not able to learn one, or is he resisting being taught one?

Maybe he sees himself as a closer someday, where maybe you CAN get away with two pitches?

I honestly don't know why at this point in his career, he'd still only have two pitches...

[Rex Kickass]

Yes thats right, it's December 2004. We didn't get the Cubs #4 pitcher.

 

I guess that means its time to write off 2005.

[Guest JimH]

My question after reading this is:

WHY hasn't Diaz learned a third pitch by now?

Are the Sox' minor league instructors not teaching him one, or is he not able to learn one, or is he resisting being taught one?

Maybe he sees himself as a closer someday, where maybe you CAN get away with two pitches?

I honestly don't know why at this point in his career, he'd still only have two pitches...

He does have three pitches ... fastball, slider, changeup.

 

None are plus pitchers, that's the problem. Fastball is about 90 tops, changeup is just ok because he can't locate it and sometimes telegraphs it. Slider is his best pitch, when he can throw it for strikes.

 

Compare that to other guys who have at least one plus-plus pitch. Santana is a great example with the changeup.

 

Diaz is a depth pitcher at this point, nothing more.

[YASNY]

My question after reading this is:

WHY hasn't Diaz learned a third pitch by now?

Are the Sox' minor league instructors not teaching him one, or is he not able to learn one, or is he resisting being taught one?

Maybe he sees himself as a closer someday, where maybe you CAN get away with two pitches?

I honestly don't know why at this point in his career, he'd still only have two pitches...

I wish I had an answer for you. I just know that what I said earlier was based on something similar that Ozzie said during the season.

[Leonard Zelig]

Have the Sox given up on Schoe as a starter?

[thelatinoheat_30]

I defended KW when the question was posed concerning his job security if the Sox fail to make the playoffs this season.  Well, I will no longer defend him if we can't land a better option that Jason f***ing Grilli in the 5th spot.  He should have never traded El Caballo unless he absolutely, 100% KNEW that he had a solid pitcher who would sign with the Sox.  His failure to do so has weakened our offense tremendously and has resulted in nothing more than a minimal increase in bullpen quality.  Yeah, it's all well and good to have some money laying around, but what the f*** does cash in a bank do to improve your ballclub?  Nothing!  It's a hack job of managing a budget and team.

i guess your right.

 

on the catcher situation, i'm ok w/ a platoon of davis and burke, solid defensively, at least more than aj. i don't want aj, the offense is not worth the clubhouse trouble and bad throwing arm. does not bode well when garcia, marte, and contreras take forever to get the ball to home plate.