AddisonStSox Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Please, no strong words. I'm just curious to see where we are all at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Other: Not straight salary dump, but it may just end up that way by April 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 YES. KW's line about saving the money for a deadline deal was a perfect excuse to use against criticism. I don't know about you, but I've never head of a GM saving 6 million for a deadline deal. I'm calling KW a f***ing liar on this one. Just for the record, I was saying this the second I heard him on the radio the day of the Lee trade. If KW goes out and spends money this offseason, I will apologize to him. I hope I'm wrong, but I feel this was a salary dump all the way. I think that the bad things that have come out about Carlos the last few days was a way for KW to deflect some of the criticism for the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Salaray dump: What we got back is not even close to the value we should have gotten for lee. If we do sign anyone it will be andy ashby or sele. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Straight salary dump. I defended KW before but unless he signs a 5th starter before spring training then he has lost a supporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Salary dump. He gets the speedster that Ozzie wants. He gets rid of Lee. Now everyone wonders why Lee was sent instead of Konerko. It makes perfect sense. Lee was under contract for 2005 and 2006. We get rid of him there is no pressure to resign him. Konerko is under contract for 2005 only. He will be easier to either get rid of in the middle of the season or to lose out to for FA. 16 mill off the books without a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 He did it to make room for a starter. Why do you think we even made an offer for Clement? You think he'd do that just to dupe us? Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 He did it to make room for a starter. Why do you think we even made an offer for Clement? You think he'd do that just to dupe us? Please. If KW really thought that 3 yr, 21 million was going to get Clement signed when competing against Red Sox and Angels, he's dumber than I thought. I've never heard of a team hoping for a hometown discount when he wasnt even on the White Sox last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 If KW really thought that 3 yr, 21 million was going to get Clement signed when competing against Red Sox and Angels, he's dumber than I thought. I've never heard of a team hoping for a hometown discount when he wasnt even on the White Sox last year. How do you know it was 3 years, 21 million??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 How made will everyone be if it comes out that the 3 year deal was backloaded with deferments like colons deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox2334 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Reinsdorf: Kenny the payroll is getting to high. You need dump either lee or konerko Kenny: But do I have to? Reinsdorf : do it now or your fired Kenny: Alright alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 If KW really thought that 3 yr, 21 million was going to get Clement signed when competing against Red Sox and Angels, he's dumber than I thought. I've never heard of a team hoping for a hometown discount when he wasnt even on the White Sox last year. Did you ever think that maybe thats all we could have afforded to offer? Throwing 21 million over 3 years to a mediocre pitcher doesn't sound like a cheap move to me. If Kenny was doing this just to pretend that we were interested in spending money, what is the point of doing that? That would be a lose/lose situation. He'd be better off not trying at all. That would be a dumb professional move, and I'm positive that Kenny is smart enough to not even think about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 If KW really thought that 3 yr, 21 million was going to get Clement signed when competing against Red Sox and Angels, he's dumber than I thought. I've never heard of a team hoping for a hometown discount when he wasnt even on the White Sox last year. Too bad Matt Clement isn't Latin. Then he could promote Ozzie Guillen and his international clubhouse as a reason to sign with the White Sox. WAIT, Perez is still available! Let's hope he'll consider Guillen and sign 4 million under the contract of another orgnanization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Did you ever think that maybe thats all we could have afforded to offer? Throwing 21 million over 3 years to a mediocre pitcher doesn't sound like a cheap move to me. If Kenny was doing this just to pretend that we were interested in spending money, what is the point of doing that? That would be a lose/lose situation. He'd be better off not trying at all. That would be a dumb professional move, and I'm positive that Kenny is smart enough to not even think about that. No, it just goes to show that it was pretty obvious that Clement was the impact starter that KW had his sights set on. However, if the 3/21 (which I gathered from different sources like Tribune, Bruce Levine, Comcast, but am fairly certain it was in the vicinity) was all that KW could afford to spend on a pitcher, he's better off just filling in other holes cause he won't get an impact starter this offseason at that price. A big problem I had with the Carlos trade was that it didnt really fill any of the team's glaring holes. We could have used Carlos to get us a starting pitcher. The only thing that the trade did was make the 4 million we're spending on Everett seem even more pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 The soon to be moved washington nationals have a projected 50 mill payroll. From contraction to 15 mill off of our payroll. Nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 A big problem I had with the Carlos trade was that it didnt really fill any of the team's glaring holes. We could have used Carlos to get us a starting pitcher. The only thing that the trade did was make the 4 million we're spending on Everett seem even more pointless. Carlos would not have gotten us a starting pitcher (at least not one worth a damn). Starting pitchers: High commodity Power hitting LF: Not so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Carlos would not have gotten us a starting pitcher (at least not one worth a damn). Starting pitchers: High commodity Power hitting LF: Not so much I would not really consider lee a power hitter. He should have gotten us more than he did though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Carlos would not have gotten us a starting pitcher (at least not one worth a damn). Starting pitchers: High commodity Power hitting LF: Not so much Carlos is all but locked up for the next two years for a sum of about 15.5 million dollars. In this market, that's extremely cheap for a .300/30/100 type of player. I know a lot of us care so much about the White Sox that we develop a bias for certain players. However, all you have to do is read what unbiased baseball experts have to say about the Carlos trade. Rotoworld might have been the only source who said that the trade was decent for the White Sox. KW has just a terrible reputation among baseball analysts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Based upon the offer they gave to Clement, I must conclude that it was. We'll see what they do with Perez. And I would NOT suggest "filling other holes" with the money because what we fill them with will be mediocrities, with which this team is already replete. AJ for catcher? Come on, the Giants just cut him for a reason and his D is atrocious and his O isn't that great anyway (no power, mediocre OBP) Maybe a million or 2 for one of the pitchers way down on the list; but not $5 mill for a Milton or one of those - that would be ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 I would not really consider lee a power hitter. What would you consider him? He should have gotten us more than he did though. I'm not disputing that. In referring to fathom's previous post that we should have gotten a starting pitcher for him, I'm just saying that with the market that there is right now for pitchers, nobody is going to give up a good one for a player that is a dime a dozen like Carlos Lee. Then again, it all depends on how much you value Carlos Lee. I, for one, liked him, but didn't think he was much of a difference maker. So, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 I'm pissed that Clement went to another team but I wont stomp up and down crying "SALARY DUMP!" unless we get to spring training and still haven't signed a starting pitcher or all the top FA's are off the market. Hermanson as the 5th starter is not an option IMHO & I really dont want to hear anymore excuses about waiting for a midsummer deal. I got news for KW. If we sit pat where we are right now spinning the roulette wheel every 5th day then we'll be too far out of contention by June/July to be worried about making an impact deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Other: Not straight salary dump, but it may just end up that way by April 1st. That's it in a nutshell. "The best laid plans of mice and Ken..., er, Men..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 I voted "dump" but wouldn't have after the initial move. What is swaying me is the new Vazquez trade talk because it looks like at least another 2m is coming off the books. So Sox will have lost 8m in payroll since the Lee trade, and now what are they going to spend it on? They need to get more offense, but Delgado will be more than that, and I imagine Cabrera will be just about that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 We needed a lead off type guy. Sometimes overpaying for waht you need, is what you have to do. Imagine you where drowning, would you swap your Suburban for a 14' row boat? Now that he has the money, he can fill the hole he created. This probably will do little more than bring us back to even. But isn't that what we always do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 I'm not disputing that. In referring to fathom's previous post that we should have gotten a starting pitcher for him, I'm just saying that with the market that there is right now for pitchers, nobody is going to give up a good one for a player that is a dime a dozen like Carlos Lee. If players like Carlos are so common, then we should be able to pick up someone just as good on the cheap. What fas available now could step in and replace everything Carlos does for a fraction of the price? If there are any, then resigning Timo was even dumber than it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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