quickman Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 I really am just sitting back and watching. It's fascinating to watch grown men crap there pants over what a goof like George Offum spits out, even after everyone roasts him on the board to begin with. Just sit back and watch, no need to b**** about something that hasnt happened...... this is true all except for the grown men part. Are we all grown men here. I don't think so. Jim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 no worries lets just wait and see what kenny has up his sleeve. BUt what if he's shirtless???? WE'RE f***ED!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 BUt what if he's shirtless???? WE'RE f***ED!!!!!!!!!! Then you will have to check down his pants I guess..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 So essentialy this would be Garland and Marte for Vazquez? with LA using the money freed up do go after Betran/Delgado/Drew/Ordonez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 So essentialy this would be Garland and Marte for Vazquez? with LA using the money freed up do go after Betran/Delgado/Drew/Ordonez? It's essentialy nothing because we aren't gonna be involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 I think one thing lost in all this "the Sox don't have any guys left to hit HR's and the Cell is a hitter's park" worries is building a team that can win at home and on the road. Last time I checked, the sox have been poor on the road in the last few years [7 games under in 04, and not much better the previous yrs--though I don't have the exact record]. A playoff team has to have an above .500 road record. And play solid at home. What have the Sox been lacking that has contributed to their poor road records? Inconsistent scoring, poor SP, and a weak bullpen. IMO, the sox have relied too heavily on a roster built to win home games. A trade bringing Vazquez and maybe an Alex Cora could help the sox win at home and on the road, even at the expense of PK and Marte or Garland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 IMO, the sox have relied too heavily on a roster built to win home games. A trade bringing Vazquez and maybe an Alex Cora could help the sox win at home and on the road, even at the expense of PK and Marte or Garland. I don't buy the consistency angle Runs Saved: Vazquez Runs Produced: Cora By making that trade, our pitching staff gets weaker, and our offense reaches anemic levels. You don't become more consistent by scoring fewer runs, and allowing more. The '03 Tigers and '04 DBacks tried that. It didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomsonmi Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 I don't buy the consistency angle Runs Saved: Vazquez Runs Produced: Cora By making that trade, our pitching staff gets weaker, and our offense reaches anemic levels. You don't become more consistent by scoring fewer runs, and allowing more. The '03 Tigers and '04 DBacks tried that. It didn't work. You're assuming that we're giving them all three guys. The reports I've heard is that it would be two of the three. I don't like this trade if it includes Garland, as I have said before. But, if its Konerko and Marte for Vazquez I think its an excellent move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 I don't buy the consistency angle Runs Saved: Vazquez Runs Produced: Cora By making that trade, our pitching staff gets weaker, and our offense reaches anemic levels. You don't become more consistent by scoring fewer runs, and allowing more. The '03 Tigers and '04 DBacks tried that. It didn't work. If you looked closely, I said IMO. Statistically, the sox have been world beaters the last few yrs. But they have nothing to show for it. I'm glad the sox are done tinkering around the edges. A safe choice prob. would have been to sign Clement. But the Sox need more than that to make the playoffs and be in the position to make a WS run. The calculated risks the Sox seem to be taking leave a lot of room for upside, more than enough to get the sox into the playoffs. It looks like you think all 3 sox players are going. By all accounts it would be 2 of the 3. the Sox pen is stronger, and could absorb Marte's loss [Cotts IS/ IR was even better than Marte's]. And Vazquez's addition would move everyone down a spot, with a reasonably priced vet at #5 if Garland was part of the deal], helps the rotation. [Vazquez's 2nd half is more of an aberation than his All star 1st half-I believe even your stats say that ] Nothing is a sure thing. We can argue stats and opinions all day. Once something happens, and we know the players heading into 2005 spring training, then we can argue more. But to compare the way the Sox are heading w/ the tigers and Dbacks is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Can I give a big :dips*** to most of the people on this thread? Man, you people will jump on any f***ing rumor thrown at you. If you are asking for permission then the answer is NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 whats wrong with jumping on a rumor? keeps things interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 I was one of KW's biggest supports just about one week ago. That was how incredibily stupid the Pods deal was. Unless he gets us a starter pitcher without having to deplete the team in some other area then we as fans have every right to be disgusted and demand that he loses his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 so it was "incredibly stupid" simply because it made you dislike KW? that's how "incredibly stupid" it was... wow. It must have been stupid then! Stupid that we got a 70 SB threat, stupid that we have an actual lead off man, stupid that we got some money that i still think we'll use well. You just cant say it was stupid until EVERYTHING is played out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 so it was "incredibly stupid" simply because it made you dislike KW? that's how "incredibly stupid" it was... wow. It must have been stupid then! Stupid that we got a 70 SB threat, stupid that we have an actual lead off man, stupid that we got some money that i still think we'll use well. You just cant say it was stupid until EVERYTHING is played out. Yeah...silly me I forgot the high demand for leadoff hitters who can hit.240 and put up .313 OBP.... Until he proves he's not a one year wonder on the field this deal will remain stupid. It sure as hell wasn't worth giving up C Lee over. If he uses the money to get a DECENT pitcher that will be one thing but if he sits on the money then it was a stupid trade, unless your a bigger fan of the sox making money then actually winning something on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Yeah...silly me I forgot the high demand for leadoff hitters who can hit.240 and put up .313 OBP.... Until he proves he's not a one year wonder on the field this deal will remain stupid. It sure as hell wasn't worth giving up C Lee over. If he uses the money to get a DECENT pitcher that will be one thing but if he sits on the money then it was a stupid trade, unless your a bigger fan of the sox making money then actually winning something on the field. you just said it yourself, we need to wait and see what happens to that money. THE OFFSEASON IS NOT OVER YET! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 you just said it yourself, we need to wait and see what happens to that money. THE OFFSEASON IS NOT OVER YET! Lets just say i'm not sitting here holding my breath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISF Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 It WAS stupid. Our best hitter for a guy who spent 9 years in the minors, had one good year, and then went back to s***sville. 70 SBs. Yay! 1 for every time he gets on base. We could have gotten a much better return. Instead we went for the cash grab. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 i wouldnt consider lee our best hitter. He was good no doubt but i'd rank pauly and frank and maggs above him still.......... We didnt win with him, so why not try something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 18, 2004 Author Share Posted December 18, 2004 i wouldnt consider lee our best hitter. He was good no doubt but i'd rank pauly and frank and maggs above him still.......... We didnt win with him, so why not try something else? We also didn't win with Willie, Crede, Uribe, Rowand, etc., etc. Getting rid of one power hitter was excusable, but you can't have an offense where you have to rely on mediocre to average MLB players to have career years in order to just have a sufficient offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 Let me not be the last to say, "f*** that trade." Why does Marte's name keep coming up in trade rumors? He's the anchor of what looks to be a solidified bullpen. A bullpen, that if the White Sox get Matt Clement, can compensate for Jason Grilli as a fifth starter and a low producing offense. I'm not against trading Konerko and Garland for a top of the line starter, nor am I against trading Shingo or any of those other chaps in the bullpen, but Damaso Marte is equal to, if not better than all the lefties out of the pen (certain closers excluded). Damaso should be an untouchable. Even with his struggles last season, the chap was still damn effective. His numbers don't lie. All I'm saying is to KW is not to f*** us over. Don't cover another hole and create another. It's worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 but trading those players will only get you mediocrity as well. You need to trade talent to get talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelatinoheat_30 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 so it was "incredibly stupid" simply because it made you dislike KW? that's how "incredibly stupid" it was... wow. It must have been stupid then! Stupid that we got a 70 SB threat, stupid that we have an actual lead off man, stupid that we got some money that i still think we'll use well. You just cant say it was stupid until EVERYTHING is played out. ditto Why does Marte's name keep coming up in trade rumors? He's the anchor of what looks to be a solidified bullpen. A bullpen, that if the White Sox get Matt Clement, can compensate for Jason Grilli as a fifth starter and a low producing offense. I'm not against trading Konerko and Garland for a top of the line starter, nor am I against trading Shingo or any of those other chaps in the bullpen, but Damaso Marte is equal to, if not better than all the lefties out of the pen (certain closers excluded). Damaso should be an untouchable. Even with his struggles last season, the chap was still damn effective. His numbers don't lie. marte has really had only 1 really good year w/ us. rather trade him than paul at this point, depending on the deal i guess. i'm out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quade36 Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 ESPN said the the Sox involvement in the trade wasn't going to happen now. Which is right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 ditto marte has really had only 1 really good year w/ us. rather trade him than paul at this point, depending on the deal i guess. i'm out Try two good years, one average. 2002 - 60.3 IP, 2.83 ERA 2003 - 79.7 IP, 1.58 ERA 2004 - 73.7 IP, 3.42 ERA Those are numbers I'm not about trading. Now that Marte finally has some support behind him in the bullpen, those numbers should be expected to get better. You'll notice that all the teams winning championships these days have above average bullpens, and perhaps not staffs. The Red Sox last year didn't have above average starters after Pedro and Schilling, neither did the Yankees, or the Cardinals. All those teams had one or two front line starters (hell, some didn't even have that) and a hell of a bullpen. I'm f***ing fine with Grilli as the fifth starter given our bullpen as it is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 all i know is that we will have a good team come 2005. KW is not done, something will happen until then all us here at soxtalk will speculate, breath new life into rumors, post every rumor from every source possible, bash kenny williams, bash rinesdorf, piss eachother off, make eachother laugh... and bit our nails with gut renching antisapation. something like that GO PODS! KICK ASS IN 2005!!! hit over .300, steal over 50 bases... GO VISIANO!!!! pitch at least 70 innings, give us an era of under 2.50!!!! go KW, use that 6 million very wisely!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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