Buehrle>Wood Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 The douche owned us if I remember correctly. A's fans were calling it his coming out party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 I am willing to bet their pen is better than ours next year. Who's do you think will better? I'm not so sure. Their pen is definitely deeper, but I'd rather have Shingo, Marte, and Viscaino than Dotel, Bradford, and Mecir. However guys like Durchesurer and Rincon are better than guys like Hermansen and Politte. I think their overall bullpen ERA will be better because our middle relief and long relief aren't as strong, plus they play in a solid pitcher's park while we play in Coor's Field East. However, I have more faith in our back 3 than theirs at this point. If Dotel pitches in the closer's role like he used to in setup however, that's another story. They need a monster stopper back there for me to put them among the elite, someone like Gagne, K-Rod, Mota, or Rivera. I don't see that at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 I am willing to bet their pen is better than ours next year. I seriously doubt it, but that's just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 I am willing to bet their pen is better than ours next year. Who's do you think will better? Based on what? Holds, ERA, Saves, blown saves, K's, WHIP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 I'm not so sure. Their pen is definitely deeper, but I'd rather have Shingo, Marte, and Viscaino than Dotel, Bradford, and Mecir. However guys like Durchesurer and Rincon are better than guys like Hermansen and Politte. I think their overall bullpen ERA will be better because our middle relief and long relief aren't as strong, plus they play in a solid pitcher's park while we play in Coor's Field East. However, I have more faith in our back 3 than theirs at this point. If Dotel pitches in the closer's role like he used to in setup however, that's another story. They need a monster stopper back there for me to put them among the elite, someone like Gagne, K-Rod, Mota, or Rivera. I don't see that at this point. They may non-tender bradford and mecir is not on the team. If cruz does not end up in the rotation he will be either the 7th inning guy or the set-up man. Whicheveer cruz does not do i envision calero doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Based on what? Holds, ERA, Saves, blown saves, K's, WHIP? As a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 I seriously doubt it, but that's just my opinion. I will save this thread and we will see next year. I will bump it at the all-star break and at the end of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Garcia is actually who i have heard to be their closer of the future. He has electric stuff. He got roughed up when he was up for like six innings last year but you could just see the movement he has on his pitches. After the way Street tore everyone in the AFL a new one... I'll believe it when I see it. Obviously everyone is just guessing at this point, anyway. Dotel figures to start as the closer in 2005, then they'll see how everyone else progresses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Calero, Dotel, Bradford, Rincon, and Cruz have all proven themselves. (As good pitchers -- granted Dotel's had some problems proving himself as a closer.) That's they heart of your pen right there. Street's probably the best reliever prospect in the majors. Oakland's bullpen is definitely a big strength. I disagree with your assesment that Calero and Cruz have proven themselves as solid pitchers. Calero has yet to pitch 50 innings in a season, so I have a hard time saying I'd be willing to depend on him (although he has done well so far), and Cruz has shown me a lot more inefficiency than efficiency (good year this past year though). Plus Dotel proving himself as a closer is a major issue. They've got good young arms and a few proven veterans, but as I said, as of right now I don't believe their backend guys will consistently be able to hold one or two run leads to start the 8th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 They may non-tender bradford and mecir is not on the team. If cruz does not end up in the rotation he will be either the 7th inning guy or the set-up man. Whicheveer cruz does not do i envision calero doing. My bad, I was looking at last year's stats and haven't payed attention to their bullpen player movements. That makes me even less likely to favor them because those were two of the veterans on the staff that have shown they could do it for more than one year, basically leaving them with Ricon and Dotel from that category. If they are going to depend on the young guys to take major setup roles, I am skeptical. They do have some power arms so I could be proven wrong, but I'd definitely rather have our back 3 if Calero or Cruz (or Street, or Garcia) is one of their key setup guys. Plus, I would think there is a chance that Cruz gets a shot at starting given their current rotation situation (I might be wrong on that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 I disagree with your assesment that Calero and Cruz have proven themselves as solid pitchers. Calero has yet to pitch 50 innings in a season, so I have a hard time saying I'd be willing to depend on him (although he has done well so far), and Cruz has shown me a lot more inefficiency than efficiency (good year this past year though). Plus Dotel proving himself as a closer is a major issue. They've got good young arms and a few proven veterans, but as I said, as of right now I don't believe their backend guys will consistently be able to hold one or two run leads to start the 8th. Fair enough. But I think they're at least as proven as our bullpen guys. Takatsu's just had one great year (like Cruz), there are questions about his success a second time around. Politte has been up and down. Vizcaino was good last year, but not much more than that, with a terrible 2003. Marte's solid, but hasn't established himself as a closer. Calero hasn't pitched much, but he did repeat a very good year w/ another one, that counts for something. Personally I think people overstate Dotel's problems last year, but JMO, I don't feel like debating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 I will save this thread and we will see next year. I will bump it at the all-star break and at the end of the year. Like I said, it's my opinion. If your trying to prove something, it's worthless. You prove hard statements with someone who is confident about that particular arguement, not someone's personal opinion what he sees happening. I expected better from you A.J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Like I said, it's my opinion. If your trying to prove something, it's worthless. You prove hard statements with someone who is confident about that particular arguement, not someone's personal opinion what he sees happening. I expected better from you A.J. What is wrong with saying we will see how the bullpens are at the all-star break and at the end of the year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Fair enough. But I think they're at least as proven as our bullpen guys. Takatsu's just had one great year (like Cruz), there are questions about his success a second time around. Politte has been up and down. Vizcaino was good last year, but not much more than that, with a terrible 2003. Marte's solid, but hasn't established himself as a closer. Calero hasn't pitched much, but he did repeat a very good year w/ another one, that counts for something. Personally I think people overstate Dotel's problems last year, but JMO, I don't feel like debating it. You're missing some things. First off, I'm more likely to think Shingo can repeat his performance since he was extremely successful in Japan for quite some time. That doesn't mean that he is going to repeat last year's performance, but I also doubt that he will suddenly have an ERA over 4. Marte is not going to be our closer, so it doesn't really matter if he has proven himself in that role. Also, I expect him to pitch better than last year for two reasons: his outstanding performance the previous two years, and he looked like he was overworked last year, which shouldn't happen this year. Vizcaino was horrendous in 2003, but take a look at his 2002 numbers. They are quite impressive. It's possible that he could be off, but when two of his last three years are solid, I tend to believe he is going to be decent. Calero has only 83 innings pitched the last two years (Shingo had 63 last year). If he is going to be a major part of their pen this year, he's going to have to pitch at least 50, probably more. Between the increased load and the more pressure packed role, I could see how he slips a little. Dotel was fairly bad as a closer last year. He was nowhere near his usual self. He was very hit or miss (especially in the AL) and blew 9 saves (Shingo blew 1, albiet in fewer chances). You could argue that a 4.00 ERA isn't that bad for a pen, but that is definitely not what you want from your closer. I know he has the stuff to close, but so do a lot of people. Forgive me if I'm not sold yet. I have my beliefs, you guys have yours. I honestly I'm not that interested in Oakland's pen considering that they are not in our division. This is my last post on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Mulder. no!!!!!!!!!!! This Guy we should have went after. If we would trade a f***en boat of prospects for randy. Then why not Mulder? I dont get it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Mulder. no!!!!!!!!!!! This Guy we should have went after. If we would trade a f***en boat of prospects for randy. Then why not Mulder? I dont get it! Because we weren't going to trade a boat load of prospects for Randy Johnson. What the hell is Beane going to do with Garland and Konerko? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 How do you know? KW always trades our prosepcts. Twice for alomar and Carl. It will be 3 times for Robbie if willie gets hurt. I think KW was just sleeping at the wheel this time. imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulokis Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Mulder. no!!!!!!!!!!! This Guy we should have went after. If we would trade a f***en boat of prospects for randy. Then why not Mulder? I dont get it! Wish we could have had him.....Mulder could have gone home and pitch for the his favorite team in chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Since Oakland is definitely in a rebuilding mode, Beane acquired a hell of a guy in Barton. Barton will obviously be moved to a corner OF position, and Beane has Suzuki and Powell waiting in the wings after Kendall moves on. With an outfield of Byrnes, Kotsay and Swisher, the A's have one hell of a defensive outfield and one that can get on base at will. At catcher they are obviously set with Kendall, and an infield of Hatteberg, Ginter, Crosby and Chavez is good. Add Durazo at the DH and this is a perfect Billyball lineup: one of high OBP's and good hitters. And now a rotation of a Zito, Harden, Haren, Blanton and possibly Meyer seems to be one of a VERY high upside. For everyone who ignorantly slam Beane because they just don't understand what's he doing, he's building far down the road and is amassing a lot of good, solid pieces for the A's future. I'm very high on Barton and I'm not surprised Beane wanted him. The A's are definitely going to be an interesting team to watch next year, and while I think they're probably a few years off from contending, they'll be scary if Billyball does actually work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 ^ what he said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Everything Cerb said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Cerb is dead on. Billy Beane is putting the pieces right back together. This team will be in it next year, but not good enough to win the division most likely. I hate to admit it because I don't like Oakland, but THIS is how you build a team without tons of $$, not the crap Kenny Williams trys to pull. This team (Oakland) ALWAYS kicks ass in the second half of the season and will do so next year as well. In 2006, look out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Oakland is in alot better shape than people give them credit for. I wish we were in half as good of shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 KW needs to go after ZITO!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 I wonder if the A's have more of a fanbase away from Oakland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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