Gene Honda Civic Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Thom, My reply is tired old internet joke + tired old redundant Soxtalk post = lame joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Diaz had 7 starts, Grilli had 8. Grilli was one out away from a quality start on one occasion, 1 ER over the limit on two other occasions, and threw 8 innings giving up 4 ER in a seperate occasion. The quality start thing is getting really old. The Sox went 4-4 in games which Grilli started. I realize that Diaz was exceptional out of the pen, so why move him back to the rotation where he'll just s*** himself again? He can be very effective for the Sox next year in long relief. If Diaz was given all of the chances to start that Grilli was he would of out performed him. Not only that if you look at their AAA numbers: Felix Diaz was 10-2 with a 2.97 ERA in 19 games (17 starts) Jason Grilli was 9-9 with a 4.83 ERA is 25 starts If he couldn't cut the mustard in AAA do you really expect him to do any better in the majors. Given a level playing field Felix would outperform him 10 times out of 10. I just hope Ozzie and KW give him a real shot if no one is signed and just don't had the job to Grilli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Diaz had 7 starts, Grilli had 8. Grilli was one out away from a quality start on one occasion, 1 ER over the limit on two other occasions, and threw 8 innings giving up 4 ER in a seperate occasion. The quality start thing is getting really old. The Sox went 4-4 in games which Grilli started. I realize that Diaz was exceptional out of the pen, so why move him back to the rotation where he'll just s*** himself again? He can be very effective for the Sox next year in long relief. Why is quality starts getting really old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomsonmi Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Your right... So are the greatest team ever assembled. Scott Posednik is going to hit .450 and steal 200 bases and we're going to sweep the world series. We will sign Perez and trade for Johnson too. Every Sox fan has a right to be pissed about this until KW delivers. Don't act like i'm not a real fan just because I don't like the GM stabbing us in the back. I didn't say you weren't a real fan. My point was -- HOW MANY TIMES CAN YOU SAY THE SAME s***!?!?! Point made. You think Kenny sucks and this CWS team is gonna suck. We get it. You obviously have the right to post whatever you want to but I beg of some of you to recognize the repetitive nature of almost everything you write. I will now go vomit on myself. :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I didn't say you weren't a real fan. My point was -- HOW MANY TIMES CAN YOU SAY THE SAME s***!?!?! Point made. You think Kenny sucks and this CWS team is gonna suck. We get it. You obviously have the right to post whatever you want to but I beg of some of you to recognize the repetitive nature of almost everything you write. I will now go vomit on myself. :puke I did that last night, oh what fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Why is quality starts getting really old? He says saying he has a certain number of quality starts, and it was shown he didn't have the quality starts. Just that. If he had them, flaunt them is how I see it, but if you don't, its kind of moot then. I see both sides of the argument, people are just focused on the wrong thing IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I didn't say you weren't a real fan. My point was -- HOW MANY TIMES CAN YOU SAY THE SAME s***!?!?! Point made. You think Kenny sucks and this CWS team is gonna suck. We get it. You obviously have the right to post whatever you want to but I beg of some of you to recognize the repetitive nature of almost everything you write. I will now go vomit on myself. :puke Your right... I apoligize. I guess all of the threads get a little redundant this time of year... I just hope I'm eating some serious crow come june and july... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Your right... I apoligize. I guess all of the threads get a little redundant this time of year... I just hope I'm eating some serious crow come june and july... Jeckle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 He says saying he has a certain number of quality starts, and it was shown he didn't have the quality starts. Just that. If he had them, flaunt them is how I see it, but if you don't, its kind of moot then. I see both sides of the argument, people are just focused on the wrong thing IMHO. I only saw that page of the thread so i was like wtf. I have been busy as hell today and barely had time for soxtalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I only saw that page of the thread so i was like wtf. I have been busy as hell today and barely had time for soxtalk. Oh its okay, I was just explaining it. I did that just a little while ago with the Beltran thread...I didn't know it was from September until someone pointed it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Guys, I don't see the logic in waiting till June or July to sign/trade for a pitcher. We've witnessed loss after loss after loss with Grilli, Diaz, Wright, Munoz, etc. Why are we going to handcuff ourselves again for half the season when we can be winning these games with a solid starter? We'll be losing ground by waiting!!! Say we lose the division by 1 or 2 games because we waited to make a trade. Plus who's to say that a crop of pitchers will be available at the deadline? Make the move now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Guys, I don't see the logic in waiting till June or July to sign/trade for a pitcher. We've witnessed loss after loss after loss with Grilli, Diaz, Wright, Munoz, etc. Why are we going to handcuff ourselves again for half the season when we can be winning these games with a solid starter? We'll be losing ground by waiting!!! Say we lose the division by 1 or 2 games because we waited to make a trade. Plus who's to say that a crop of pitchers will be available at the deadline? Make the move now! Read the posts... There isn't one person on this board who doesn't want a solid starter signed. Honestly just the fact we are even talking about Grilli and Diaz at this point in the offseason makes me a little sick :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Guys, I don't see the logic in waiting till June or July to sign/trade for a pitcher. We've witnessed loss after loss after loss with Grilli, Diaz, Wright, Munoz, etc. Why are we going to handcuff ourselves again for half the season when we can be winning these games with a solid starter? We'll be losing ground by waiting!!! Say we lose the division by 1 or 2 games because we waited to make a trade. Plus who's to say that a crop of pitchers will be available at the deadline? Make the move now! Wright was released last month, and had major surgury last season. He is done with the organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Wright was released last month, and had major surgury last season. He is done with the organization. I know that Wright is out, but I was just making a point that if we stay within the organization for a 5th starter, like we did last year with Wright and the others, that we likely won't see many Ws on the days these guys pitch. And in my previous post I stated that I don't understand taking the unescessary risk of waiting to sign this pitcher. I know that 99% of you agree that we should make the move now. I don't think KW believes we need the pitcher now, and I don't understand why he'd be thinking this. It baffles me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I know that Wright is out, but I was just making a point that if we stay within the organization for a 5th starter, like we did last year with Wright and the others, that we likely won't see many Ws on the days these guys pitch. And in my previous post I stated that I don't understand taking the unescessary risk of waiting to sign this pitcher. I know that 99% of you agree that we should make the move now. I don't think KW believes we need the pitcher now, and I don't understand why he'd be thinking this. It baffles me. We have four solid starters, and I really want Schoey to return, and I believe he feels he has something in Hermanson. Most teams don't have five guys who can pitch with the best of them, and generally those teams struggle with the offense if they do (LA, Oakland, to name the biggest ones). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 We have four solid starters, and I really want Schoey to return, and I believe he feels he has something in Hermanson. Most teams don't have five guys who can pitch with the best of them, and generally those teams struggle with the offense if they do (LA, Oakland, to name the biggest ones). I like what we have from a starting pitching standpoint, but I don't love it. Adding a Milton, a Millwood, or an Odalis Perez makes our staff that much better. It pushes Garland down to #5 and makes our BP lights out because we'd have 5 options to close out games with Shingo, Marte, Hermanson, Vizcaino, and a healthy Politte . I like what that does for us. Plus, the opposition never has that "easy" day against an unproven starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 If Diaz was given all of the chances to start that Grilli was he would of out performed him. Not only that if you look at their AAA numbers: Felix Diaz was 10-2 with a 2.97 ERA in 19 games (17 starts) Jason Grilli was 9-9 with a 4.83 ERA is 25 starts If he couldn't cut the mustard in AAA do you really expect him to do any better in the majors. Given a level playing field Felix would outperform him 10 times out of 10. I just hope Ozzie and KW give him a real shot if no one is signed and just don't had the job to Grilli. If Diaz was given all the chances Grilli had? Did you even read my post? Grilli got one more start than Diaz. I don't really see how those AAA stats are relavent either, unless you're trying to tell me there's a negative correlation between the majors and minors. Diaz's ERA as a starter was over 8 in the majors. As long as he did well in Charlotte though, right? He was great out of the pen, that's where he should stay. He's not ready to be put back into the rotation yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 your stats were equally misleading -- You said the sox were 4-4 in games grilli started -- He must have been getting the job done right? No -- Grilli's run support: 6.20 Diaz runs support: 4.02 both games grilli won were because of the offense, and the offense was able to overcome 2 more of his poor starts to turn them into victories for the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Why is quality starts getting really old? I worded that poorly. I should've said that people harping on Grilli not having a quality start is getting old. Half of his starts just missed quality status. 6 IP, 4 ER 5 2/3 IP, 3 ER 6 1/3 IP, 4 ER 8 IP, 4 ER I'm not advocating using him as the fifth starter, but the guy deserves some credit. If for nothing else than plunking Torii Hunter in the back with a fastball the first game he faced him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 your stats were equally misleading -- You said the sox were 4-4 in games grilli started -- He must have been getting the job done right? No -- Grilli's run support: 6.20 Diaz runs support: 4.02 both games grilli won were because of the offense, and the offense was able to overcome 2 more of his poor starts to turn them into victories for the pen. So? Diaz dodged a loss his first appearance thanks to a 3-run Konerko home run in heavy downpour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I have a prediction. If we don't add another starter to the rotation, the person that pitches the best in spring training will be the 5th starter. It damn sure won't be decided on a message board in December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 So? Diaz dodged a loss his first appearance thanks to a 3-run Konerko home run in heavy downpour. Point is it does not really mean grilli is much better because he got the run suppport and diaz didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Point is it does not really mean grilli is much better because he got the run suppport and diaz didn't. This is just me trying to defend Grilli from Jeckle's incessant attacks, not me trying to argue that Grilli is more talented. If you were to compare their starting stats without a name attached, you'd be hard pressed to select the better pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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