Whitewashed in '05 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I wasn't going to make a thread on this at first but for some reason I kept thinking about it and I ended up doing it anyway. Everyone is s***ting in their pants and about to BBQ KW for not signing a SP yet with the money dumped from the Spod trade. Every sox fan knows that another year of the 5th starter wheel will not crown us central division champions. Now everyone is wondering if this was just plain and simple... a salary dump. Well while I think that it could be a possibility I don't think that was the initial thought by KW. The main reason I made this thread is so you guys can read this quote from an article from MLB.com about LA's participation in the RJ trade. "We're holding it up," DePodesta said in a Los Angeles radio interview. "We want to make sure the trade is in the best interests of our '05 club. As it stands, the only way it's attractive is if we do other things alongside. As a standalone, it's not helping our Major League team. It isn't a done deal at this point. (Other moves would) have to be simultaneous. You don't make a deal like this and be left naked. There's a high level of activity and if we get the pieces in place, at the end of the day we'll have a better team." Obviously this was stated by Depodesta about the RJ deal. Very much like our situtation, except KW pulled the trigger to soon. Don't you think if the Brew crew really wanted Caballo he would have agreed with the trade and gave them his word about the deal once he signs a SP? As Depodesta said, unless he makes another move pretty much at the same time it doesn't improve the team. KW should learn that, we got a hell raiser on the basepaths in Pod but our main intention for this trade was to sign another SP with the money dumped. Why didn't KW do this is my question? Now were f***ed... what do you guys think? http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...s_mlb&fext=.jsp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomsonmi Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I think this is a very fair point. Though unlike the Dodgers case, we were clearly the agressors in this move. We wanted Pod, whether we like it or not. And, I don't think we're f***ed -- not yet anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Alright, here is my take on the whole situation. Lee>>The Podsednik Adventure and Vizicano. Im sure Kenny would even tell you that. Kenny is the GM, not the Owner. The ONLY reason Kenny should be worried about saving money is so that he can make the team better in the future, I dont understand why everyone thinks Kenny is just putting 6 mil in his pocket and runing away. What good does that do? Now if Jerry and the board told Kenny to clear up some salery, and get some cheaper players for Lee, then that I could understand, and we should all be very, very pissed. What im saying is I highly, highly doubt Kenny's plan was to trade away an 8 Mil player for two players that make about 2 mil. Kenny is a very agressive GM, and I can't for the life of me see him sitting on 6 million. Futhermore, this entire off-season KW and Sox have talked about getting a quality SP arm is the main goal. I dont think Dustin Hermanson is what Kenny had in mind. Something else is coming, it has to. Great Post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Don't you think if the Brew crew really wanted Caballo he would have agreed with the trade and gave them his word about the deal once he signs a SP? Not really. Why would another club put all their own off-season plans on hold while they wait for the Kenny to get all his ducks in a row? It's the GM's job to be able to pull the trigger on multiple deals in random succession - to basically have the 'Plan A, B, C...' we all heard so much about ready to roll when the opportunity arises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 we'll be fine.. ill admit, after the whole clement ordeal, i was evern erked and on the edge... but after calming down, and looking at everything again... we really DO have a lot more options for a 5th starter i know kenny wanted a #3 type guy, but ill be happy with someone that will win 10 games for sure, with the upside of a 15 win season.... like the DUKE get him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 Alright, here is my take on the whole situation. Lee>>The Podsednik Adventure and Vizicano. Im sure Kenny would even tell you that. Kenny is the GM, not the Owner. The ONLY reason Kenny should be worried about saving money is so that he can make the team better in the future, I dont understand why everyone thinks Kenny is just putting 6 mil in his pocket and runing away. What good does that do? Now if Jerry and the board told Kenny to clear up some salery, and get some cheaper players for Lee, then that I could understand, and we should all be very, very pissed. What im saying is I highly, highly doubt Kenny's plan was to trade away an 8 Mil player for two players that make about 2 mil. Kenny is a very agressive GM, and I can't for the life of me see him sitting on 6 million. Futhermore, this entire off-season KW and Sox have talked about getting a quality SP arm is the main goal. I dont think Dustin Hermanson is what Kenny had in mind. Something else is coming, it has to. I agree with you, I said I don't think KW's first intentions of the deal were to pocket the money, but as time passes by the market for decent to good SP is getting slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 I think this is a very fair point. Though unlike the Dodgers case, we were clearly the agressors in this move. We wanted Pod, whether we like it or not. And, I don't think we're f***ed -- not yet anyway. I think were in real deep trouble. I was exagerating when I said we were f***ed but were are in trouble. No middle infield, 2B or 3B backup. We have Valdez but he still has to prove himself. We have 2 backup catchers as of now, hopefully we sign Pierzynski . You can argue on this but we still have a need for a long releiver. I hope we are set with what we have but I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I think were in real deep trouble. I was exagerating when I said we were f***ed but were are in trouble. No middle infield, 2B or 3B backup. We have Valdez but he still has to prove himself. We have 2 backup catchers as of now, hopefully we sign Pierzynski . You can argue on this but we still have a need for a long releiver. I hope we are set with what we have but I don't know. long reliver is cotts/adkins and middle infield utilty guy i would like to see barry larkin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 we'll be fine.. ill admit, after the whole clement ordeal, i was evern erked and on the edge... but after calming down, and looking at everything again... we really DO have a lot more options for a 5th starter i know kenny wanted a #3 type guy, but ill be happy with someone that will win 10 games for sure, with the upside of a 15 win season.... like the DUKE get him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 i know kenny wanted a #3 type guy, but ill be happy with someone that will win 10 games for sure, with the upside of a 15 win season.... like the DUKE get him A very good description of Gar, unfortunately he'll be our #3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 isn't there a player to be name later in the trade that the brewers owes us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 isn't there a player to be name later in the trade that the brewers owes us It is not gonna be anyone that helps us on the major league level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 IMO this trade needs to regarded as a failure until either Pods proves he's not a fluke or until Kenny signs another SP whichever comes first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I wrote this in another thread a few days ago and again, most people disagreed. You don't pull the trigger on the Lee/Pods trade unless you ALREADY HAVE A DEAL FOR A STARTER IN PLACE. Otherwise that deal was either stupid or a salary dump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomsonmi Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 It's all about how they spend the $6 mill. I think we have a consensus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 its easy to see how they spent it 1 mill to timo garland gets a raise etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I wrote this in another thread a few days ago and again, most people disagreed. You don't pull the trigger on the Lee/Pods trade unless you ALREADY HAVE A DEAL FOR A STARTER IN PLACE. Otherwise that deal was either stupid or a salary dump. Why would people disagere with that? Makes no sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakes Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 What worries me is Kenny keeps saying he is not going to spend money just to spend money. It sounds to me as if they are wating on a bargain type pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted December 21, 2004 Author Share Posted December 21, 2004 What worries me is Kenny keeps saying he is not going to spend money just to spend money. It sounds to me as if they are wating on a bargain type pitcher. Even though your right I hope your not (that sounds weird.) I hate the fact that for someone good to come here they either have to give us a huge discount or acquire them via trade. I am so tired of it, you are not going to get many players like Dye, they need to be aggressive and get what we need because low balling players is not going to land them here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Why would people disagere with that? Makes no sense to me. I disagree with that. Rarely do things all line up like a row of dominos. You have to make your moves when you can make them and go from there. Expecting a GM to have 6 deals in place, all contingent upon the first one is ridiculous. DePodesta may be able to hedge his bets to a certain extent, but while he is attempting to do so, the whole damn thing can fall apart if someone comes in there and sandbags everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I disagree with that. Rarely do things all line up like a row of dominos. You have to make your moves when you can make them and go from there. Expecting a GM to have 6 deals in place, all contingent upon the first one is ridiculous. DePodesta may be able to hedge his bets to a certain extent, but while he is attempting to do so, the whole damn thing can fall apart if someone comes in there and sandbags everybody. I disagree with your disagree, granted there are times when you have to strike fast but this wasn't one of them. The Brewers would've waited for this deal for a long while and after a week or two on the bloc Lee's price might have gone up alot more(at least enough to include Ginter who was obviously tradable). I suspect that KW did it when he did it to clear his mind of any thought of getting RJ which may have not been all bad but it was still a horrible PR move to not have the starter he was seeking locked up when the deal went down. And if the whole thing fell apart? Then you still have your best all around hitter in the lineup, hardly a worst case scenerio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I disagree with your disagree, granted there are times when you have to strike fast but this wasn't one of them. The Brewers would've waited for this deal for a long while and after a week or two on the bloc Lee's price might have gone up alot more(at least enough to include Ginter who was obviously tradable). I suspect that KW did it when he did it to clear his mind of any thought of getting RJ which may have not been all bad but it was still a horrible PR move to not have the starter he was seeking locked up when the deal went down. And if the whole thing fell apart? Then you still have your best all around hitter in the lineup, hardly a worst case scenerio. How do you know he didn't have to strike fast? Just because you are not aware of another team having keen interest in these two players, doesn't mean that there wasn't any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 How do you know he didn't have to strike fast? Just because you are not aware of another team having keen interest in these two players, doesn't mean that there wasn't any. How do you know he did? I'll go by what Doug Melvin said. I agree with your premise that sometimes you have to strike fast, but IMO this wasn't one of them and this could turn into a PR nightmare if KW doesn't sign a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Whatever. I just feel it's totally unrealistic to expect KW to "have the starter locked up" when he had to dump Lee's payroll before he could even make an offer. If he had done it the other way around, the Brewers could have known he HAD to move Lee and could have played real hardball. That might have cost us Vizcaino, or have to settle for something less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I disagree with your disagree, granted there are times when you have to strike fast but this wasn't one of them. The Brewers would've waited for this deal for a long while and after a week or two on the bloc Lee's price might have gone up alot more(at least enough to include Ginter who was obviously tradable). I suspect that KW did it when he did it to clear his mind of any thought of getting RJ which may have not been all bad but it was still a horrible PR move to not have the starter he was seeking locked up when the deal went down. And if the whole thing fell apart? Then you still have your best all around hitter in the lineup, hardly a worst case scenerio. The brewers seemed intent on trading Pods and Kolb. Kolb was traded days before Pods. My bet is Pods was one of the key guys to get, along with Vizcaino. the salary dump was secondary to getting a leadoff type hitter, and getting a power arm for the pen. There prob was a much smaller window to get Pods and the sox had to act Any GM though who's worried about bad PR in Dec. instead of worrying about putting the best team on the field in april isn't doing their jobs. Look at Beane and DePodesta. They should be tarred and feathered. KW looks like a savant compared to those 2 right now. Let's be patient and see how the roster looks come Feb and March Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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