Rowand44 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I leave that too you guys here... Uribe Feilding% .972 Caberea .977 ANd OC been playing longer.. If you think fielding percentage is the only defensive stat that counts, then you're an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 You still haven't justified giving Cabrera eight million a year, and you never will. He's had one good season. He sucks. He'd be an awful two hitter, and I'm glad that this organization (apparently) made no effort to sign him -- one of a few correct decisions this winter, IMHO. I have you just to blind to see the facts.. you rather priase a GM who wanted to give 8 mil to a fcuking journeymen pitcher, who had 1 good year. OC, with talent around him can produce, and as stated b4 this is a move come june/july time we are going to regret. JU is to streaky of a hitter, he has play in Coors and Coors lite hitting with the likes of, Helton,walker, and preston wilson, Thomas, Maggs, and Lee.. only to compile a batting AVG of .260 and OBS .307 yet this is the Answer for SS. WE are doomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I leave that too you guys here... Uribe Feilding% .972 Caberea .977 ANd OC been playing longer.. Uribe Range Factor - 5.21 Cabrera Range Factor - 4.12 So, while Cabrera make .005 errors less per game, Uribe gets to a ton more balls hit in his zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I have you just to blind to see the facts.. you rather priase a GM who wanted to give 8 mil to a fcuking journeymen pitcher, who had 1 good year. OC, with talent around him can produce, and as stated b4 this is a move come june/july time we are going to regret. JU is to streaky of a hitter, he has play in Coors and Coors lite hitting with the likes of, Helton,walker, and preston wilson, Thomas, Maggs, and Lee.. only to compile a batting AVG of .260 and OBS .307 yet this is the Answer for SS. WE are doomed. LOL, when the heck did kenny williams come up in this conversation?? You have such a hatred for him, that you think anything he does is wrong, it's quite ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I have you just to blind to see the facts.. you rather priase a GM who wanted to give 8 mil to a fcuking journeymen pitcher, who had 1 good year. OC, with talent around him can produce, and as stated b4 this is a move come june/july time we are going to regret. JU is to streaky of a hitter, he has play in Coors and Coors lite hitting with the likes of, Helton,walker, and preston wilson, Thomas, Maggs, and Lee.. only to compile a batting AVG of .260 and OBS .307 yet this is the Answer for SS. WE are doomed. Who the hell are you talking about? Maybe you're the one who's blind to stats. Uribe hit .283, with a .327 OBP (I don't even know what the hell OBS is...). He also had an .833 OPS, 26 points higher than Cabrera's BEST year. And, Uribe has only played a couple of seasons, unlike Cabrera, who's played longer. So, should I take the better defensive shortstop with better power, a better average, a better OBP, at less than three million or the worse shortstop, with a lower average, a lower OBP, and a very poor OPS at 8 million? Is there even a choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 If you think fielding percentage is the only defensive stat that counts, then you're an idiot. Yeah tell that to your buddy CWSGuy406.. he the one that brought it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Who the hell are you talking about? Maybe you're the one who's blind to stats. Uribe hit .283, with a .327 OBP (I don't even know what the hell OBS is...). He also had an .833 OPS, 26 points higher than Cabrera's BEST year. And, Uribe has only played a couple of seasons, unlike Cabrera, who's played longer. So, should I take the better defensive shortstop with better power, a better average, a better OBP, at less than three million or the worse shortstop, with a lower average, a lower OBP, and a very poor OPS at 8 million? Is there even a choice? Juan Uribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Yeah tell that to your buddy CWSGuy406.. he the one that brought it up When did he ever bring up fielding percentage?? I think he's proved time and time again in this thread that Juan is a better defender then your butt buddy in anaheim. Juan is a better player, is younger, and makes less money, it's ridiculous to want Cabrera at 8 mill over Juan at under 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Juan Uribe Yeah, so....? I still see the same things I saw on ESPN.com. 2004 BA of .286, OBP of .327, and an .833 OPS -- better than any year Cabrera has ever had... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Yeah, so....? I still see the same things I saw on ESPN.com. 2004 BA of .286, OBP of .327, and an .833 OPS -- better than any year Cabrera has ever had... And I wonder why the Sox fall short year in and year out.. He had that year playing where? Hitting in front of WHO?? Put OC in the same postions, hitting in both Coors and coors lite watch as his off numbers increase. Those are patheic numbers haveing the cast of players around him that Uribe has. CARRER .260/.307 Those are great numbers hitting in 2 hitters parks :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 And I wonder why the Sox fall short year in and year out.. He had that year playing where? Hitting in front of WHO?? Put OC in the same postions, hitting in both Coors and coors lite watch as his off numbers increase. Those are patheic numbers haveing the cast of players around him that Uribe has. Cause OC has never had good players around him, right?? :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 And I wonder why the Sox fall short year in and year out.. He had that year playing where? Hitting in front of WHO?? Put OC in the same postions, hitting in both Coors and coors lite watch as his off numbers increase. Those are patheic numbers haveing the cast of players around him that Uribe has. That is the most idiotic post I've ever seen and you are probably my favorite poster. Guys, is it really this serious? Just drop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Cause OC has never had good players around him, right?? :rolly I guess hitting in between Jose Vidro and Vlad Guerrero shouldn't help your numbers out at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I guess hitting in between Jose Vidro and Vlad Guerrero shouldn't help your numbers out at all Wait I was just saying this year since CWSGuy406 only wants to compare this year numbers it seems of Uribe's. OC look at the numbers b4 Boston and after Boston also look in the postseason.. then we can talk. Until then see you in June/July about this when Uribe goes into his slump, and OC is ripping the cover off the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Wait I was just saying this year since CWSGuy406 only wants to compare this year numbers it seems of Uribe's. OC look at the numbers b4 Boston and after Boston also look in the postseason.. then we can talk. Until then see you in June/July about this when Uribe goes into his slump, and OC is ripping the cover off the ball. And to bring the arguement all full circle, they are saying that year of Uribe's was better than ANY year that Orlando has had, including having Manny and Vlad hit behind him for all but 3 months of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 And to bring the arguement all full circle, they are saying that year of Uribe's was better than ANY year that Orlando has had, including having Manny and Vlad hit behind him for all but 3 months of his career. Lastly, The only thing that was better was Slugging% with Uribe hitting in 2 hitters parks.. on that note.. I'm Done, with this.. Its null and void, in JUNE I will resume this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Wait I was just saying this year since CWSGuy406 only wants to compare this year numbers it seems of Uribe's. OC look at the numbers b4 Boston and after Boston also look in the postseason.. then we can talk. Until then see you in June/July about this when Uribe goes into his slump, and OC is ripping the cover off the ball. Even with Boston, did Cabrera even reach a .300 OBP...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Even with Boston, did Cabrera even reach a .300 OBP...? Barely, but he does not understand cabrera's stint in boston was too small of a sample size. the he always goes on and on how great he was in boston even though he was medicore at best while there. Some people will just never learn though. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Another move that upsets this Angel fan. Jesus, they could of had Beltran and got Finley...alright liveable...but I'd of paid 2 mill a year more for Renteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxmatt Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Jesus, they could of had Beltran and got Finley...alright liveable...but I'd of paid 2 mill a year more for Renteria. I dont think Renteria is worth 4 years 42 million. I think he got $9 million a year from the cards (correct me if im wrong) i think that is what he should be getting. All his stats dropped after a great year in '03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 For those of you playing at home, let's check out the numbers over the last 3 years, to see who is really the better shortstop. Juan Uribe or Orlando Cabrera? 2002 Uribe - .240, 6 HR's, 49 RBI's Cabrera - .263, 7 HR's, 56 RBI's 2003 Uribe - .253, 10 HR's, 33 RBI's Cabrera - .297, 17 HR's, 80 RBI's 2004 Uribe - .283, 23 HR's 74 RBI's Cabrera - .264, 10 HR's, 62 RBI's HardballTimes' thoughts on Cabrera on the signing, and before the free agent period began. After -16 RCAA/.701 OPS and -7 RCAA/.807 OPS seasons, Cabrera hit .383 SLG, .306 OBA, .689 OPS, -21 RCAA in 161 games with the Expos and Redsox. It was his 5th double digit negative RCAA, and 6th negative, in his 6 years as a starter. He has a .725 career OPS, compared to his league average of .778, and -114 RCAA in 962 games. Another guy who was once underrated is Cabrera, although his losing that status is not because of any skill deterioration, but rather that he got a chance to play for the Red Sox during their World Series run. After a few solid offensive seasons in Montreal, Cabrera got off to a very slow start this year, hitting just .246/.298/.336 in 103 games with the Expos, before being traded to Boston. Once with the Red Sox, he got back on track, hitting .294/.320/.465 down the stretch. His overall numbers were not particularly good -- .264/.306/.383 with 10 homers and 38 doubles in 161 games -- but he came fairly close to matching his career averages of .268/.316/.409. At 30, Cabrera is a couple years older than I thought he was and he hit .275/.325/.409 over the last three years, so he's not a guy who's likely to break out in a big way. However, with his defense and baserunning (65-for-78 stealing bases during that stretch), Cabrera can be a valuable player if he can simply repeat that .275/.325/.409 for the next few years. In a lot of years, I suspect Cabrera would be in line for a very nice contract, but he is probably hurt more than anyone by the depth of the free agent shortstop class this offseason. Uribe' numbers have shown that they are back on the upswign. He feels comfortable here in Chicago with the Latin style clubhouse run by Ozzie, and those numbers should continue to improve, and they could be Miggy Tejada like in 2 to 3 seasons. Cabrera on the other hand is already in his prime, and that showed in his 2003 season. He needs protection in the lineup though, otherwise he won't hit very well at all, as shown by his 2004 Expos numbers. 17 HR's is the most Cabrera has ever hit in a season though, and he would be lucky to reach 25 even if he hit here for us at the Cell. Yes there's no doubt, Cabrera numbers would improve significantly if he did hit here, but it's definitely not worth paying an extra few million per season over Juan Uribe, who is younger and yet to reach his prime. Why even go for Cabrera when you have Alex Cora on the Fa market, who could come for about $2 million a season. Look at their numbers from last season. 2004 Cabrera - .264, 10 HR's, 62 RBI's Cora - .264, 10 HR's, 47 RBI's. Cora hit in a pitcher's park in Los Angeles, and granted his numbers in 2003 were down. But his OBP in 2002 was .371 and in 2004 .364. Hitting for us at the Cell, I'd say there's definitely more a chance his numbers will improve and his OBP will stay in the mid to high .300's. Plus he's an excellent fielder, and can play at second base as well as shortstop. For way less money, signing Cora not only makes more sense, it still leaves us in the hunt for our main need, which is a starting pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 DBAH0, several people have tried to use statistics and logic to convince him that Cabrera was not a good fit for this club, or a bargain. He's got such a hard on for OC that he'll never change his position. Add to the equation that OC is now an Angel, there's really no point in carrying this weeks old debate on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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