YASNY Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Of course you can't expect every pitcher in the rotation to have career years all at once. But, I believe the point is that each of these guys is capable of acheiving those win totals. That in itself it quite a stunning thing to say about a White Sox rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 There seem to have been a lot of people around here lately who have been jumping on the David Eckstein bandwagon at the expense of Alex Cora. Frankly, I'm not one of those people, and I'll show the Pro's and Con's of each player. Alex Cora PRO - Has more power than Ecky. Has a higher On Base Percentage. Can field at both second and shortstop. Is a lefty hitter. CON - Tends to be very streaky throughout the season. Had a very bad 2003 stats wise. David Eckstein PRO - Would provide loads of energy to this ballclub. Steals more bases than Cora. Hits lefties better than Cora. CON - Can tend to be very injury prone. Would probably come a little more expensive than Cora. Doesn't have a huge arm for a shortstop. All in all, because he'll come cheaper, can field in both infield positions and with the family connection, I think it's definitely more likely the Sox go for Cora instead of Eckstein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 It's a stop gap measure to give the Sox 5 SP's. Nothing spectacular, esp with the durability issues. I still think the sox will make a run at Vazquez, if the price in terms of players is right as it will take awhile for another RJ deal to go down [which it should be less than what was being talked about earlier, as both NYY and AZ will lower their asking prices; also the yanks were going to throw in $6 mill for Vaz's contract--that amount would go up I bet in the days ahead]. Garland would be expendable then, as trading him wouldn't leave the sox w/ another hole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 There seem to have been a lot of people around here lately who have been jumping on the David Eckstein bandwagon at the expense of Alex Cora. Frankly, I'm not one of those people, and I'll show the Pro's and Con's of each player. I'm a Cora fan too. But one thing that helped his OBP was 11 IBB, hitting in the #8 hole. Overall, I think Cora still would give the sox more than Eckstein would. And it's more likely he'd sign w/ the sox. This isn't fantasy baseball where the Sox can sign any player who's available. A player has to want to come here, choosing the sox over all the other teams. Is it like a 3% [1 out of 30 teams] chance of him signing with the Sox, all things being equal?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 A real 5 man rotation, just like the good clubs have. Now get the extremely grindy Eck, to help us scratch out a few runs, cause offensively we're gonna be spotty, and we have a chance to play in mid-October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 This guy will never make full year not hurt , KW quit signing basement people every yr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Here is how the cost per start would work out with El Duque as #5, its higher than I thought the White Sox would go: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Here is how the cost per start would work out with El Duque as #5, its higher than I thought the White Sox would go: El Duque's contract sounds like it's 2 yrs and $4 mill total, + more if incentives are reached. Maybe $2 mill a yr guaranteed, and could rise w/ incentives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 El Duque's contract sounds like it's 2 yrs and $4 mill total, + more if incentives are reached. Maybe $2 mill a yr guaranteed, and could rise w/ incentives. I'm sure that if he gets 20+ starts, some of those incentives will kick in. He's probably pretty close on those numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaCWS Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I love El Duque as a pitcher. He was extremely clutch in the playoffs, but that was 5-6 years ago. The guy hasn't stayed healthy the last few years and his age must be around 40 by now. It's low-risk with the dollars you guys are saying, but I'd rather see a younger, more long-term solution like Miller or Vazquez (in a trade). I'm also not sure El Duque is a great fit for this stadium. The power alleys won't be as forgiving as they are in the Bronx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I'm sure that if he gets 20+ starts, some of those incentives will kick in. He's probably pretty close on those numbers. I just think the base starts at $2 mill a yr. That makes sense w/ his injury history. More starts = more cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Personally I don't mind this deal. He could help Contreras along plus ends the mystery of the 5th starter at least for awhile. Plus the deal is pretty good for both the Sox and El Duque. A player who has been known to be hurt often, a contract that is incentive laden is the best way to go I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 David Eckstein PRO - Would provide loads of energy to this ballclub. Steals more bases than Cora. Hits lefties better than Cora. CON - Can tend to be very injury prone. Would probably come a little more expensive than Cora. Doesn't have a huge arm for a shortstop. I'm curious about the first CON you listed and why you didn't include it with Cora: Starts: Eckstein: 153, 152, 120, 142 Cora: 109, 134, 115, 148, 138 It would seem that Cora is the one who has the harder time staying in the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I'm curious about the first CON you listed and why you didn't include it with Cora: Starts: Eckstein: 153, 152, 120, 142 Cora: 109, 134, 115, 148, 138 It would seem that Cora is the one who has the harder time staying in the lineup. It just seems to be the general consensus going around the MLB that Eckstein is injury prone, probably a little more so than Cora, but yes they both have had injury problems over the past few years and have missed games because of it. Cora has played in more games over the last 2 years though, a good sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 This would be a good signing for the Sox. True, it's not a #1 or #2 starter, but it's better than minor leaguer of the week getting slaughtered. On paper, the Sox will have a pretty good rotation. Let's just hope everyone stays healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I love El Duque as a pitcher. He was extremely clutch in the playoffs, but that was 5-6 years ago. The guy hasn't stayed healthy the last few years and his age must be around 40 by now. It's low-risk with the dollars you guys are saying, but I'd rather see a younger, more long-term solution like Miller or Vazquez (in a trade). I'm also not sure El Duque is a great fit for this stadium. The power alleys won't be as forgiving as they are in the Bronx. Welcome to Soxtalk. Drop by the Sex, Lies, and Politics Forum and introduce yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I'm a Cora fan too. But one thing that helped his OBP was 11 IBB, hitting in the #8 hole. Overall, I think Cora still would give the sox more than Eckstein would. And it's more likely he'd sign w/ the sox. This isn't fantasy baseball where the Sox can sign any player who's available. A player has to want to come here, choosing the sox over all the other teams. Is it like a 3% [1 out of 30 teams] chance of him signing with the Sox, all things being equal?! Interesting point, he also doubled his avg of HBP to an astounding 18 HBP's last yr. I don't think you can count on that again either. Our #2 hitter had 0 IBB and 4 HBP and our #9 had 3 IBB and 5 HBP last yr, I'd say 1 or 2 IBB is the most you could expect from him and his avg of 8 HBP would be higher than would be normally expected. Adjusting his last yr OBP to expectations of 2 IBB and 8 HBP would put his OBP at .336 or slightly less than Willie's .343. Btw, Eck has 1 career IBB and Willie has 0 IBB, all their career PA's are in the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I love this move. Even if he can't make 30 starts, it could still work out given the money. Would you have any problem throwing this guy out there in a playoff game, or a big road game in Fenway or Yankee Stadium? I think not. This guy answers what I and several of you have been asking for, a guy who can help us win playoff games-not just get us there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Found this about the Dodgers and "El Duque", even though it's from an article written 4 hours ago, it could be old news considering the Friday used; Baseball sources said Friday the Dodgers figure to intensify negotiations with free agent right-handers Derek Lowe and Orlando Hernandez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox2334 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 thats old news lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 They say different. Every site thinks he was either born in santa villa or havana. http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hernaor01.shtml That is what I'd heard, age 38 or 39. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 It just seems to be the general consensus going around the MLB that Eckstein is injury prone, probably a little more so than Cora, but yes they both have had injury problems over the past few years and have missed games because of it. Cora has played in more games over the last 2 years though, a good sign. And yet He's only had one injury that caused him to miss any real playing time and that was in '03 when he had a collision on a popup with Garret Anderson. I'd hardly call that injury prone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 And yet He's only had one injury that caused him to miss any real playing time and that was in '03 when he had a collision on a popup with Garret Anderson. I'd hardly call that injury prone. 2004 Spring Training though he had lots of nagging injuries which limited the AB's he had, and he couldn't hit above .200 until April 16. But the more I look at Ecky, the more it seems he could fit our needs if he was signed which I still think is doubtful. I'm pretty sure St. Louis will offer him the starters job at SS since they missed out on Polanco, which would leave us with Cora if he isn't signed by another team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 Found this about the Dodgers and "El Duque", even though it's from an article written 4 hours ago, it could be old news considering the Friday used; If Dodgers offer a last-minute contract which exceeds ours, I'll assume this is retribution for Sox backing out of Vazquez discussions. Could anyone else legitimately picture DePodesta doing this? Not necessarily to stick it to Williams, but due to a dwindling market and limited options remaining. Oh man, would this irritate the hell out of me. That would be twice (three if you're counting Wright) a free agent was on the brink of signing w/us, only to join an organization which offered a more attractive package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I hope this gets done for the amount of money they are talking about. This still leaves the Sox some room to aquire some IF/C depth or another catcher. The guy basically carried the Yankees as that pitching staff fell apart. Plus I love having another guy who can relate to Contreras and maybe rationalize with him to do what he needs to do to be successful in the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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