NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Oo NO the biggest :dips*** is calling me one.. He's a dips***........No HE'S a dips***. Play nice kiddies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 If he gets to the 6 million it means it pitched good, which means I'll take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 He's a dips***........No HE'S a dips***. Play nice kiddies. \\m// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Pitching in the major leagues these days is horrible overall. There are too many teams, so pitchers that shouldn't be allowed to even buy replica jerseys are actually being paid to wear real ones. So, comparing Jon to your average #3 starter might not be a bad argument. However, since I expect the Sox to be better than just "average", I'd rather compare him to the #3s of teams that actually win. Much different story. I've seen Jon pitch many games, but his numbers really tell me all I need to know. He was a #4 last year (and I think every year before that), and had his first winning record ever (1 game over .500). He was facing other teams' #4 starters most of the time..and he still was just a .500 pitcher. That's sad. And unlike most 24 year old pitchers, he's got 5 years experience under his belt. So comparing 1st or 2nd year pitchers to a 5 year veteran isn't a fair comparison. yeah, but look at the Red Sox. Here's their World Series winning rotation: Schilling Pedro LOWE WAKEFIELD ARROYO With the year that Lowe had last year, I think garland is comparable and cheaper. Lowe was 14-12 with a 5.42 ERA Wakefield went 12-10 with a 4.87 ERA Arroyo went 10-9 with a 4.03 ERA Garland 12-11 -- 4.89 There's your comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 The incentives will make him work that much harder. I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Exactly. And even if he doesnt get hurt, if he is s***, they sit him or put him in the pen to take Diaz spot or Cotts spot, and he doesnt get the 100IP. 4 mill base is too much for a guy who rarely makes 20 starts the past couple years. Just way too much of a guaranteed portion, especially when you consider your giving him 4 mill this year and next. For a team thats tight on payroll its not wise. I so hope they aren't giving that much guaranteed. If it was a 1yr deal for 4 mill worth as much as 6 mill fine, but not 2 years 8 mill worth as much as 12 mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 yeah, but look at the Red Sox. Here's their World Series winning rotation: Schilling Pedro LOWE WAKEFIELD ARROYO With the year that Lowe had last year, I think garland is comparable and cheaper. Lowe was 14-12 with a 5.42 ERA Wakefield went 12-10 with a 4.87 ERA Arroyo went 10-9 with a 4.03 ERA Garland 12-11 -- 4.89 There's your comparison. Problem is the Sox have no one like Schilling and Pedro. Although you could make a case that Buehrle or Garcia could come close to putting up Pedro's numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 alright guys i just got on, don't feel like reading this entire thing anyone got a quick summary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Any word on a press conference? I'm leaving and wanna tape it if there is one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Pitching in the major leagues these days is horrible overall. There are too many teams, so pitchers that shouldn't be allowed to even buy replica jerseys are actually being paid to wear real ones. So, comparing Jon to your average #3 starter might not be a bad argument. However, since I expect the Sox to be better than just "average", I'd rather compare him to the #3s of teams that actually win. Much different story. I've seen Jon pitch many games, but his numbers really tell me all I need to know. He was a #4 last year (and I think every year before that), and had his first winning record ever (1 game over .500). He was facing other teams' #4 starters most of the time..and he still was just a .500 pitcher. That's sad. And unlike most 24 year old pitchers, he's got 5 years experience under his belt. So comparing 1st or 2nd year pitchers to a 5 year veteran isn't a fair comparison. Comparing to a pitcher that has 5 years experience under his belt that's 28 years old isn't fair either. Just think about what you have in Jon Garland. You have a guy that has, at a very young age, held down a starter's spot on a mojor league team. You have a guy that will give you 200 innings and double digit wins. You have a guy that is young enough to still get better, to learn what it takes to be a top notch pitcher. He has the physical abilities. That's the opinion of anyone (scouts, GM's, etc) who know about that kind of thing. It's just a matter of something clicking for the guy. Will it happen? Hell, I don't know. But I'd hate to trade this guy off one year too soon. Oh ... compare him to the #3 pitchers for all the AL contenders last year. he's right with them. At least he was about Sept 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Wait, we did actually sign him officially? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 alright guys i just got on, don't feel like reading this entire thing anyone got a quick summary? Pending Physical, El Duque is signing with the sox for believed to be 2 years 8 mill plus incentives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Looks like El Duque is going to be with the Sox, two years, 8 Mil, incentives up to 12 mil if he goes over 100 IP. wow, not bad. i'll take it. this gives us a solid rotation. thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Pending Physical, El Duque is signing with the sox for believed to be 2 years 8 mill plus incentives. I thought that price (2 years at 4 million) was too good to be true. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I hope I'm wrong, but this is too much money. I'll still root for him and am glad that the Sox now have a 5th starter thats not named Jason Grilli. On a sidenote, what about the Sox introducing all the new players at Soxfest. That could be a kind of cool way for them to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I hope I'm wrong, but this is too much money. I'll still root for him and am glad that the Sox now have a 5th starter thats not named Jason Grilli. On a sidenote, what about the Sox introducing all the new players at Soxfest. That could be a kind of cool way for them to do it. i don't think that's too bad. better than overpaying for some of the other FA's out there i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Looks like El Duque is going to be with the Sox, two years, 8 Mil, incentives up to 12 mil if he goes over 100 IP. That is sad that the incentives kick in at only 100 innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 4 mill base is too much for a guy who rarely makes 20 starts the past couple years. Just way too much of a guaranteed portion, especially when you consider your giving him 4 mill this year and next. For a team thats tight on payroll its not wise. I so hope they aren't giving that much guaranteed. If it was a 1yr deal for 4 mill worth as much as 6 mill fine, but not 2 years 8 mill worth as much as 12 mill. Well we have the money to play with this year, so I agree with you there that for this year it's fine. Next year Pauly comes off the books and so does jon. I don't think 4 mill a year is that bad and we'll have some money to work with next year. It's also a possibility that the sox won't have to make any starting pitcher acquisitions going into next year with Bmac on the way. I can see how you're a little worried about the money but I think we'll have some money to play with next year and I think we'll be fine, jmo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Put it this way, I hope to hell Bmac is ready cause the Sox are going to need him at some point this year when El Duque craps out due to injury. I hope he's ready by then. On another sidenote, can anyone remember an offseason in which the Sox made so many moves. Cause I'm pretty sure they still have one more move to make minimum, which will be Cora or Eckstein. And then still the potential of adding Vazquez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvjeremylv Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Comparing to a pitcher that has 5 years experience under his belt that's 28 years old isn't fair either. Just think about what you have in Jon Garland. You have a guy that has, at a very young age, held down a starter's spot on a mojor league team. You have a guy that will give you 200 innings and double digit wins. You have a guy that is young enough to still get better, to learn what it takes to be a top notch pitcher. He has the physical abilities. That's the opinion of anyone (scouts, GM's, etc) who know about that kind of thing. It's just a matter of something clicking for the guy. Will it happen? Hell, I don't know. But I'd hate to trade this guy off one year too soon. Oh ... compare him to the #3 pitchers for all the AL contenders last year. he's right with them. At least he was about Sept 1st. :rolly :sleep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Problem is the Sox have no one like Schilling and Pedro. Although you could make a case that Buehrle or Garcia could come close to putting up Pedro's numbers. I agree with Schilling, I disagree with Pedro. There are very few true shut down aces now. Schilling, Randy, Clemens, maybe Hudson, Beckett (when healthy), Prior... i'd put Buehrle up against a lot of those guys. We have two VERY solid #2's, two solid #4s and if we get El Duque and he doesn't get hurt (a big IF), that's a solid #3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I'll just say this, our other options aren't exactly safe from injury(Perez and Miller) and won't put up much better numbers either. But they'll each make around 7-8 million per, compared to just 4(as much as 6). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I agree qwerty, it should have been at least 150. But overall, I love the addition. He has won a World Series before and could help Jon with theat winning mentality and he is good friends with Contreras maybe they will light fires under each others asses to inspire them to work that much harder. If you really take a second to think about, 4 million a year to possibly improve Jon and Jose, plus his stuff, it's a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Well we have the money to play with this year, so I agree with you there that for this year it's fine. Next year Pauly comes off the books and so does jon. I don't think 4 mill a year is that bad and we'll have some money to work with next year. It's also a possibility that the sox won't have to make any starting pitcher acquisitions going into next year with Bmac on the way. I can see how you're a little worried about the money but I think we'll have some money to play with next year and I think we'll be fine, jmo. Ya I can see it now. Sox refuse to sign Konerko because they are paying El Duque who may never pitch again 4 million a year. This is after Konerko has another .275-.285 35 HR, 100 RBI season. I'll just hope to hell he helps them get the series this year cause I don't like giving him anything guaranteed next year. Maybe have the 2nd year of the contract kick in if he pitches 100 innings this year. Either way too much guaranteed money if this whitesox.com article is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 :rolly :sleep Hey. I've tried to have an intelligent conversation with you. But apparently, you aren't capable. So be it. Merry Christmas. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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