qwerty Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 El Duque. LOL We just payed 2 yrs/8 mil for Grilli to be our 5th starter most of the year. And people say JR is cheap. We could have been paying league minimum for Grilli to be our 5th starter. Huh? How so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Garland will make it and prove you naysayers wrong. He'll never be Schilling or Johnson...god no, but he'll be good. Just like Darryl Strawberry was the next Willie Mays Garland all Hype Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Huh? How so? he's saying el duque will get hurt and grilli will take his place anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISF Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I have a better chance of winning the Lotto than El Duque has of pitching more than 100 innings this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Just like Darryl Strawberry was the next Willie Mays Garland all Hype Strawberry snorted his career away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I have a better chance of winning the Lotto than El Duque has of pitching more than 100 innings this season. :rolly give it a rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 he's saying el duque will get hurt and grilli will take his place anyways. Maybe, but if they use him correctly it will greatly lower his chances of injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Maybe, but if they use him correctly it will greatly lower his chances of injury. I'm not saying i agree with him, because i don't. he doesn't have a great history of health, but who knows, the sox aren't going to put nearly as much pressure on him as the yanks did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakes Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 It's the base I have problems with. Who do we trust? The Cubune or the Miami Herald? The Cubune: the Sox offered a two-year heavily laden with incentives, worth as much as $4 million. The Herald: http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/10472238.htm?1c ''El Duque'' agreed to a two-year, $8 million incentive laden contract that could be worth as much as $12 million. Pending a physical. The Cubune just said sources & the Herald made reference to his agent. That's way too much! The guy didn't just avg less than 146 ip over 4 yrs. Two of the years topped out at 100 ip. Do the math, & you get about 125-30 ip. No use crying about it. If this is true then that's if for the SOX. No Vazquez & no other starters. He might have a few mil left to get a solid utility player & an experienced C. It's not so much the $ as it is the idea of the SOX overpaying. That's what me the most. It's like the Bears spending close to 40M on a defensive secondary that has to be close to the worst in the NFL. It's sad because the line is good, the linebackers are good, but the secondary blows. That makes the team one of the worst in the league. Arggghhhh! At least the seats will be forest green over the next two years. That's something I wanted since 1991. Not to go off topic, but the Bears secondary worst in the NFL? You do realize that the 2 starting corners and free safety were injured this year. When healthy, their secondary is top 5 in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Garland will make it and prove you naysayers wrong. He'll never be Schilling or Johnson...god no, but he'll be good. I don't see that. All the good pitchers have dominant fast-balls & filthy off-speed stuff. Garland doesn't have a dominant fast-ball. He does have good stuff but change of speeds is not one of them. For Garland to become a good front man starter he needs to have better control of his pitches like Maddux. He's never demonstrated that kind of control over a long span of starts in his career. His stuff is good enough to be a bordeline winning pitcher in the MLs but beyond that is doubtful. Pitchers are best evaluated against their peers. Garland has one mark of consistency: his ranking. 04: 29th, 03: 30th, 02:32nd. Yes there's improvement there but don't expect a breakout year. What you can say is that his price vs performance level for the CWS has been good. In my opinion that makes Garland even more attractive to other teams that pitchers who rank a little better than he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISF Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 :rolly give it a rest. I was just explaining for qwerty. Besides, weren't we promised that we would be signing a top of the rotation guy? We weren't going to just settle for a 5th starter? Where's that money for Lee going? I'm pissed. This offseason started off well enough with Dye and Hermanson. But KW has done nothing but screw up since then. Oh, he saved us 400,000 on Davis, but that's just more money for Reinsdorf to leave his grandchildren in his will. Starting the year with a payroll under 70 mil when the Cubs will likely be over 100 mil, is bulls***. Pay Perez. Grab Varitek out from under Theo's nose. We should be at 75 easy. More likely 80 mil. No reason for this cheap crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I was just explaining for qwerty. Besides, weren't we promised that we would be signing a top of the rotation guy? We weren't going to just settle for a 5th starter? Where's that money for Lee going? I'm pissed. This offseason started off well enough with Dye and Hermanson. But KW has done nothing but screw up since then. Oh, he saved us 400,000 on Davis, but that's just more money for Reinsdorf to leave his grandchildren in his will. Starting the year with a payroll under 70 mil when the Cubs will likely be over 100 mil, is bulls***. Pay Perez. Grab Varitek out from under Theo's nose. We should be at 75 easy. More likely 80 mil. No reason for this cheap crap. trading lee gave us money for pod, duque, and hopefully eckstein if things go right. i'd say that's not bad, not bad at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I refuse to believe the Miami Herald report. I'm sticking with the Cubune. When they report it then I'll believe it. I can live a few more hours with the fantasy that KW got a quality arm for a good price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Maybe, but if they use him correctly it will greatly lower his chances of injury. I have to agree. He'll the the #5 guy and he'll get to skip starts. Not only that but I doubt with our pen being as strong as it is we will see him throwing too many complete games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighHeat45 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I was just explaining for qwerty. Besides, weren't we promised that we would be signing a top of the rotation guy? We weren't going to just settle for a 5th starter? Where's that money for Lee going? I'm pissed. This offseason started off well enough with Dye and Hermanson. But KW has done nothing but screw up since then. Oh, he saved us 400,000 on Davis, but that's just more money for Reinsdorf to leave his grandchildren in his will. Starting the year with a payroll under 70 mil when the Cubs will likely be over 100 mil, is bulls***. Pay Perez. Grab Varitek out from under Theo's nose. We should be at 75 easy. More likely 80 mil. No reason for this cheap crap. Wow, i didnt know the deadline for moves in the offseason passed already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I don't see that. All the good pitchers have dominant fast-balls & filthy off-speed stuff. Garland doesn't have a dominant fast-ball. He does have good stuff but change of speeds is not one of them. For Garland to become a good front man starter he needs to have better control of his pitches like Maddux. He's never demonstrated that kind of control over a long span of starts in his career. His stuff is good enough to be a bordeline winning pitcher in the MLs but beyond that is doubtful. Pitchers are best evaluated against their peers. Garland has one mark of consistency: his ranking. 04: 29th, 03: 30th, 02:32nd. Yes there's improvement there but don't expect a breakout year. What you can say is that his price vs performance level for the CWS has been good. In my opinion that makes Garland even more attractive to other teams that pitchers who rank a little better than he does. Well said, Juggernaut. As for the El Duque rumor, I cannot believe you people are complaining about a guy who has a career ERA under 4 and put up stellar numbers. Oh, and by the way, his home park was Yankee stadium...barely 300 down the lines. I like this signing a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S720 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 It's not so much the $ as it is the idea of the SOX overpaying. That's what me the most. It's like the Bears spending close to 40M on a defensive secondary that has to be close to the worst in the NFL. It's sad because the line is good, the linebackers are good, but the secondary blows. That makes the team one of the worst in the league. Arggghhhh! What the hell are you guys talking about? We acted as if players want to come here and play for the Sox. First Vizquel, then Jaret Wright, then Clement, and now El Duque. Many of us have stated that we should not overpay Vizquel, Wright and Clement. And look at their recent contracts with their new teams. Now that we get the Duke for $8 mil/2 years, we still are complaining. Do you SERIOUSLY think that you know more about players' market values than KW? We know JACK about it! If we continue to b**** and moan about how overpaid Kenny has signed the acquired players, the Sox will end up with NOBODY. There has to be a REASON why Kenny opted for the Duke rather than Miller, in which all of us know nothing about. Relax and enjoy this offseason. Gosh, this is one of the busiest season for the Sox, and all we could do is keep on complaining at every move Kenny makes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISF Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Wow, i didnt know the deadline for moves in the offseason passed already! It hasn't. Kenny still has time to trade Konerko for Jamie Moyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I was just explaining for qwerty. Besides, weren't we promised that we would be signing a top of the rotation guy? We weren't going to just settle for a 5th starter? Where's that money for Lee going? I'm pissed. This offseason started off well enough with Dye and Hermanson. But KW has done nothing but screw up since then. Oh, he saved us 400,000 on Davis, but that's just more money for Reinsdorf to leave his grandchildren in his will. Starting the year with a payroll under 70 mil when the Cubs will likely be over 100 mil, is bulls***. Pay Perez. Grab Varitek out from under Theo's nose. We should be at 75 easy. More likely 80 mil. No reason for this cheap crap. Promised? Kenny Williams never promised anything. He said they were going to try to get a top of the line starter. They explored deals for Randy Johnson, Javier Vazquez, Tim Hudson. They talked seriously to Matt Clement. The deals didn't work out. The Cubs payroll is $100 million because they sold out their entire season. The Sox payroll is middle of the pack, because their attendance is middle of the pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I have to agree. He'll the the #5 guy and he'll get to skip starts. Not only that but I doubt with our pen being as strong as it is we will see him throwing too many complete games. $10 he beats out Garland for the 4th spot after ST! Any takers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 $10 he beats out Garland for the 4th spot after ST! Any takers? I say Garland will beat out Contreras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 $10 he beats out Garland for the 4th spot after ST! Any takers? Orlando will probably be slotted as the 5th guy so he can be skipped if need be but if we can keep him healthy he's definitely our number 3 guy, if that makes any sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 $10 he beats out Garland for the 4th spot after ST! Any takers? I'm definitely with you on that bet, Juggernaut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Well, ya, i do not see them doing that since we can always use pitching. But it is a possiblity i guess. Not if he stays healthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I'm not trying to say Garland will pitch better then Hernandez... I'm saying it's a better bet to have the young 24 year old throw those extra games then risk having the injury prone 40 year old (maybe) throwing to many innings. I think El Duque will be a great assest to this team as long as Ozzie doesn't overwork him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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