Solution at C

[qwerty]

Yeah he's probably the only catcher on the market still possibly worth considering, and he did have a nice OBP of .367 in 2004 for the Blue Jays. He did really struggle in 2002 and 2003 though, so his 2004 stats wise could just be an anomaly.

Possibly, but it may also be that he had a good amount of at-bats unlike most years? I mean, he is a career .250 hitter. But his jump from batting average to obp is pretty damn good, .89 points. I would take that from are number eight hitter in the lin-up with willie following.

[beck72]

I think we are putting too much emphasis on a catcher and not enough emphasis on the middle infielder that we seek.

 

I really like Burke, I don't care what you say, but I think he's a stud when he's on...and I really can't see breaking with 3 catchers, so I'd think a flip flop of Burke and Davis would be pretty decent.

 

Where do we usually stick our catchers in the lineup anyway? No. 9. And usually I'd say we expect .260 out of them. And thats good, I think...

A few things:

 

*The sox have put the emphasis on C because Ozzie likes having 3 C's, for the flexibility of pinch hitting and pinch running late in games. Plus, the sox have basically 2 decent backups now. Both Ozzie and KW don't seem exactly thrillled w/ what the sox have there, and shouldn't.

 

*The 9th hitter [ideally] should be someone who can handle the bat and have some speed, so they can get a RISP for the top of the order. Harris seems well suited for this spot, not a slow C who doesn't make consistent contact

 

*Neither Burke or Davis are studs defensively. They aren't big offensive weapons, either. So what the sox would have is below avg players at a key spot. The sox should get at least an average C, either who can hit or field above what the sox have now

[Rex Hudler]

There has to be a reason Burke has never been a full-tiime catcher, even when in the Minor Leauges. I don't think Burke has EVER caught more than 90 games in a season as a professional.

 

Most years in the minors he was catching 30 or 40 games, while playing 1B or 3B part-time as well. He hasn't played a full season of games, regardless of position, since 1998, if I recall correctly. That was his first year of AA, I believe.

[beck72]

There has to be a reason Burke has never been a full-tiime catcher, even when in the Minor Leauges.  I don't think Burke has EVER caught more than 90 games in a season as a professional. 

 

Most years in the minors he was catching 30 or 40 games, while playing 1B or 3B part-time as well.  He  hasn't played a full season of games, regardless of position, since 1998, if I recall correctly.  That was his first year of AA, I believe.

Burke does sound like a good 3rd Catcher. I give Ozzie some credit for calling Burke up when he was hitting below .230 in AAA. but I wouldn't count on him repeating his 2004 yr.

 

Rex, I was wondering if you knew anything about two of the A's AA, AAA C's: Jeremy Brown and John Baker. With Kendall locked up, and Barton acquired, one of these guys could be available [if not then, A's back up Adam Melhuse traded and one of these guys could take his spot].

 

I know Brown was reach 1st round pick in 02, and Baker a later pick [4th maybe]. Seeing Baker's numbers [280/.355/.477 in AA, and some games in AAA] and LH hitting stick, he seems like a better fit than what the sox have in the upper levels

[DBAHO]

Burke does sound like a good 3rd Catcher. I give Ozzie some credit for calling Burke up when he was hitting below .230 in AAA. but I wouldn't count on him repeating his 2004 yr.

 

Rex, I was wondering if you knew anything about two of the A's AA, AAA C's: Jeremy Brown and John Baker. With Kendall locked up, and Barton acquired, one of these guys could be available [if not then, A's back up Adam Melhuse traded and one of these guys could take his spot].

 

I know Brown was reach 1st round pick in 02, and Baker a later pick [4th maybe]. Seeing Baker's numbers [280/.355/.477 in AA, and some games in AAA] and LH hitting stick, he seems like a better fit than what the sox have in the upper levels

Oakland also drafted Kurt Suzuki in the 2004 draft, I remember a lot of people wanted us to select him instead of Donny Lucy during the draft, so the A's are absolutely stocked with bonafide catcher prospects.

 

I found this on the recent A's BA chat on their prospects;

 

Q:  With Jeremy Brown, Kurt Suzuki and Landon Powell, its seems like there is a glut of catchers in the system. Can all of these players become everyday catchers in the bigs and which is most likely to do it for the A's?

 

A:  Kevin Goldstein: I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in baseball who thinks Jeremy Brown will be a starting big league catcher at this point, but he may make it as a backup. The world of prospects is full of attrition, so nothing wrong with taking a pair of top flight catchers in the draft. Both project as starters in the bigs.

 

Q: I see the A's added Jeremy Brown to the 40 man roster. Will he be a successful major leaguer despite BA's reservations about moneyball?

 

A:  Kevin Goldstein: The A's are convinced he'll have value in the majors as a backup, because of his on-base skills. He did put together a solid second half. Our reservations about Moneyball are overinflated -- our reservations about how some have perceived Moneyball may not be.

 

Baker was also put on the A's 40 man roster at the beginning of the month.

[beck72]

Baker was also put on the A's 40 man roster at the beginning of the month.

BA's Prospect handbook also said Baker was a better defender than Brown [but that neither were gold glovers]

[DBAHO]

Looking at Baker's stats, he certainly is an interesting proposition to consider. He's hit pretty well at every stop he's been at from his 3 years in the minor leagues, although it looks like he needs to improve his BB / K ratio in the higher levels, to improve that OBP of his, but that will definitely come in time.

 

What would Billy Beane want from us in a trade though? Most likely, young pitching. A young arm like Arnie Munoz could be used perhaps in a deal, as it would give Beane the flexibility to have him as a starter or use him like a reliever using Cruz as an example.

[beck72]

Looking at Baker's stats, he certainly is an interesting proposition to consider. He's hit pretty well at every stop he's been at from his 3 years in the minor leagues, although it looks like he needs to improve his BB / K ratio in the higher levels, to improve that OBP of his, but that will definitely come in time.

 

What would Billy Beane want from us in a trade though? Most likely, young pitching. A young arm like Arnie Munoz could be used perhaps in a deal, as it would give Beane the flexibility to have him as a starter or use him like a reliever using Cruz as an example.

Getting a AAA C with upside, who could actually make the team coming out of spring, should be done, if the sox don't make a trade for a vet or sign a FA.

 

I just don't think Davis and Burke have the upside the sox need

[JUGGERNAUT]

Zaun is the best option for the CWS in 2004. The Jays want him back & are willing to give him the starting role because he gelled well with the staff. Zaun's numbers suggest he has developed a more patient eye at the plate. So you get an upgrade both offensively & defensively. A 2-yr deal for a modest sum should take the Jays out of the running. It's got nothing to do with Zaun but rather other money they committed in prior years to the position. They want to get the most out of that money.

 

Another option that's not really been mentioned is Navarro. Again the NY-ARZ-CWS RJ trade comes to mind. Would Navarro+Vazquez+15M seal the deal for Koney+Garland+prospect for Vazquez? If ARZ wants Marte as well they would need to give us something in return. Would Navarro represent an appreciable upgrade over Davis? Burke will never be thought of as more than a bench player.

[soxfan420]

Zaun is the best option for the CWS in 2004.  The Jays want him back & are willing to give him the starting role because he gelled well with the staff.  Zaun's numbers suggest he has developed a more patient eye at the plate.  So you get an upgrade both offensively & defensively.  A 2-yr deal for a modest sum should take the Jays out of the running.  It's got nothing to do with Zaun but rather other money they committed in prior years to the position.  They want to get the most out of that money.

 

Another option that's not really been mentioned is Navarro.  Again the NY-ARZ-CWS RJ trade comes to mind.  Would Navarro+Vazquez+15M seal the deal for Koney+Garland+prospect for Vazquez?  If ARZ wants Marte as well they would need to give us something in return. Would Navarro represent an appreciable upgrade over Davis?  Burke will never be thought of as more than a bench player.

Catcher free agents(in order)

 

A.J.(still available??)

zaun

Fordyce

Bako

[Guest JimH]

Catcher free agents(in order)

 

A.J.(still available??)

zaun

Fordyce

Bako

I looked at that list too, it is slim.

 

Pierzynski is clearly the best but if the Sox don't think he'll fit, that's that.

 

Zaun would be good but I think he's being pursued hard by Toronto and IMO he wants some guarantee of playing time. I don't think our chances to get him are good.

 

Fordyce has really declined the last couple of years and when the Sox traded him in 2000 they weren't happy with his defense at all.

 

Bako is very good defensively with the exception of throwing runners out (going from memory there). And he adds zero with the stick.

 

At this point, my guess is they'll bring in a guy on a minor league contract and see how it goes with Davis and Burke. Not my preference but this is how I feel it'll play out.

 

I'd love to see KW surprise me with a Zaun signing or if somehow they can get on the same page with Pierzynski ... but I doubt it.

[Jake]

how did donny lucy do in rookie ball? i looked one time and he was batting around .240....i saw his video at mlb.com around draft time and he looked real good

[Rex Hudler]

I vote for Greg Zaun, if only for the fact that he is fun at parties!

 

He was at a friend of mine's wedding a few years ago (they were minor league teammates) and we spent some quality time in line at the bar (several times). He carried with him a nice metal collapsable shot glass. He'd go to the bar, get a drink for him and his (wife, sig. other, I can't recall) and pull out the shot glass while he was there. He'd do a shot or two, tap it on the bar and it would collapse into about 1/3 its full size, stick it in his pocket and say "see ya in about 15 minutes".

 

He was wearing his Marlins WS ring. It was pretty sweet. He was pretty cool.

[beck72]

I looked at that list too, it is slim.

 

Pierzynski is clearly the best but if the Sox don't think he'll fit, that's that.

 

Zaun would be good but I think he's being pursued hard by Toronto and IMO he wants some guarantee of playing time.  I don't think our chances to get him are good.

I like Zaun as well. He seems more than capable of giving the sox 90 games with above avg offense. He would be a safer bet, even for a 2 yr deal, as the sox don't have any prospects near being ready.

 

But getting a AAA guy [who may start the yr in AAA but prob. could be ready ealry in the yr to be called up] who has upside isn't a bad idea. Even if the Sox had to trade a top 10 prospect for another teams top C prospect, the sox need some options at this spot. Lucy and Hernandez are a few yrs away if at all.

[DBAHO]

how did donny lucy do in rookie ball? i looked one time and he was batting around .240....i saw his video at mlb.com around draft time and he looked real good

Lucy hit .239 for Great Falls in rookie ball in 50 games. Had 17 BB's and 36 K's, which lead to an OBP of .312. He did hit over .300 for Stanford in early 2004 though.

In contrast, Francisco Hernandez hit .326 for Bristol in rookie ball in 53 games, and even hit .333 in 3 games for Kanny.

 

It's good to see the Sox signing more Dominican Republic prospects like Hernandez after teams such as the Dodgers have usually had the bulk of the young talent that comes from that region over the past decade. The Sox also signed an outfielder from there, and he's got good wraps on him.

 

If only the Sox sended out more scouts to Australia now. Quite seriously though, the 3 main teams that have scouts down here are the Red Sox, Padres and Mariners, and Seattle especially have some real good Aussie prospects on their team like Travis Blackley and Chris Snelling, before he got injured.

 

Back on the thread topic though, Zaun wouldn't be a bad idea if the price is right. The Blue Jays will definitely try to resign him, and my thinking is he'll probably stay there if they can hammer out a suffcient deal that will make both sides happy.

[YASNY]

What is Brad Ausmus' availability. The guy can't hit a lick, but he's supposedly a master at handling a pitching staff.

[DBAHO]

What is Brad Ausmus' availability.  The guy can't hit a lick, but he's supposedly a master at handling a pitching staff.

I think he's a Houston native, and the Astros' don't have much in the way of replacements, so it's probably unlikely they'll trade him. Stranger things have happened though.

[chisox05]

What is Brad Ausmus' availability.  The guy can't hit a lick, but he's supposedly a master at handling a pitching staff.

How bout we just get a catcher who can hit and field his position, like olivo!

 

But wait, we traded him, one of the best outfield prospects in the game, and an intriguing shortstop prospect for 1/2 of a season of Freddy Garcia.

 

Don't say "we extended his contract 3 years so it ended up being worth it" because we probably could've gotten him at 8 million per not 9 million per as a free agent in the offseason.

 

I have no doubt in my mind that we couldve used those 2 specs and felix diaz for hudson this offseason-a top of the line pitcher for 1 year.

 

 

 

I don't want you guys to take this like I don't like Freddy cuz I do, its just that that trade is foolish.

[YASNY]

How bout we just get a catcher who can hit and field his position, like olivo!

 

But wait, we traded him, one of the best outfield prospects in the game, and an intriguing shortstop prospect for 1/2 of a season of Freddy Garcia.

 

Don't say "we extended his contract 3 years so it ended up being worth it" because we probably could've gotten him at 8 million per not 9 million per as a free agent in the offseason. 

 

I have no doubt in my mind that we couldve used those 2 specs and felix diaz for hudson this offseason-a top of the line pitcher for 1 year.

 

 

 

I don't want you guys to take this like I don't like Freddy cuz I do, its just that that trade is foolish.

Olivo was kicking some major ass with the bat. (think green)

 

 

Sorry, but I disagree 100%. This was a good deal.

[Guest JimH]

How bout we just get a catcher who can hit and field his position, like olivo!

 

But wait, we traded him, one of the best outfield prospects in the game, and an intriguing shortstop prospect for 1/2 of a season of Freddy Garcia.

 

Don't say "we extended his contract 3 years so it ended up being worth it" because we probably could've gotten him at 8 million per not 9 million per as a free agent in the offseason. 

 

I have no doubt in my mind that we couldve used those 2 specs and felix diaz for hudson this offseason-a top of the line pitcher for 1 year.

 

 

 

I don't want you guys to take this like I don't like Freddy cuz I do, its just that that trade is foolish.

Good morning ... smell the coffee.

 

Garcia's price would've been even higher this offseason, did you see Benson's contract? Not to mention he likely wouldn't have been available - Seattle was going to trade him regardless and the teams interested all wanted to get him signed to an extension right away.

 

Did you see how Olivo did in Seattle? Not good. Seattle has him working with a catching specialist due to his difficulties not only behind the plate, but hitting as well. He had a horrible few months offensively.

 

Saying those guys were traded for 1/2 year of Garcia is totally misinformed.

[LDF]

Good morning ... smell the coffee.

 

Garcia's price would've been even higher this offseason, did you see Benson's contract?  Not to mention he likely wouldn't have been available - Seattle was going to trade him regardless and the teams interested all wanted to get him signed to an extension right away.

 

Did you see how Olivo did in Seattle?  Not good.  Seattle has him working with a catching specialist due to his difficulties not only behind the plate, but hitting as well.  He had a horrible few months offensively.

 

Saying those guys were traded for 1/2 year of Garcia is totally misinformed.

olivo hitting, and mark my words here b/c i been saying this the whole time, is a non factor. all he has imho is a great arm and what i think the potential to learn to be a decent defensive catcher. as for hitting, forget it. remember when he was caught with corked in his bat?

[YASNY]

A great arm does not a great defensive catcher make.

[chisox05]

Good morning ... smell the coffee.

 

Garcia's price would've been even higher this offseason, did you see Benson's contract?  Not to mention he likely wouldn't have been available - Seattle was going to trade him regardless and the teams interested all wanted to get him signed to an extension right away.

 

Did you see how Olivo did in Seattle?  Not good.  Seattle has him working with a catching specialist due to his difficulties not only behind the plate, but hitting as well.  He had a horrible few months offensively.

 

Saying those guys were traded for 1/2 year of Garcia is totally misinformed.

That will happen when you arent even starting and play once a week.

[chisox05]

Garcia wouldve gotten a similar contract to clement. I think garcia is a better pitcher but I dont believe garcia could muster a much bigger contract than this. No way he'd be getting more than 10 million per year(1 million more than the sox are paying him).

 

It was a foolish decision but whats done is done.

[Guest JimH]

Garcia wouldve gotten a similar contract to clement.  I think garcia is a better pitcher but I dont believe garcia could muster a much bigger contract than this.  No way he'd be getting more than 10 million per year(1 million more than the sox are paying him).

 

It was a foolish decision but whats done is done.

It's all conjecture, but I believe Garcia would've gotten closer to Colon money, greater than Pavano money. His record is better than Clement's.

 

As for Olivo, he was playing consistently here, had a physical problem in Seattle and had some time off. That may have skewed his production, yes.

 

But the Mariners baseball people know that Miguel Olivo needs a lot of work. His pitch recognition at the plate is below average, he can't hit a curveball and he chases bad pitches. At this point in his career he should be improving in that regard, not regressing.

 

He has a much better arm than Ben Davis but I'm not so sure he's superior defensively. Based on my observation anyways.