Just how good is our pitching staff?

[JUGGERNAUT]

When did this expand to include the NYY & BOS?

If you're including them then definitely it's

 

1-NYY Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Wright, Brown

2-BOS Schilling, Clement, Wells, Miller, Wakefield

3-CWS Garcia, Buehrle, Hernandez, Contreras, Garland

4-MIN Santana, Radke, Silva, Lohse, Mays

 

It's a given the NYY will get Johnson & upgrade their 5th spot with either a healthy

Brown or a new acquistion. Getting a solid 5 is a never a problem for the NYY's.

 

Hernandez as a number 3 makes them a little better than the Twins.

But if you were to ask amongst all of those names which are the most likely

to have breakout seasons it's likely Contreras & Garland. In other words the CWS

has more upside in those 2 than any other team can claim with the bottom of their

rotation.

 

They are battle tested in the AL & positioned to improve.

 

I'm now thinking the M's are going to buy Odalis Perez' services. They near pitching to compete in that div & they haven't done much to improve there.

[quade36]

With cle, you have cc, c lee and westbrook, now they are getting millwood to help in the rotation. However lets look at what their minor league players and they are going to produce, Guthrie, miller, cruceta, dittler (?). and carmona. They have a good depth of prospect at pitching and look at the rest of the farm, it stock. However when I was mention cle, I was also looking at the rest of the team stats and how that helps in the win and lose category.

 

 

 

With det I was guilty of looking at something else when I was ranking them (young hitting team). I still like the young rotation of there’s. However they do have some young arms to looking at, sleeth's, zumaya's, sborz, and Woodyard. Again I will say that the performance of the hitters helps out with the win – lost record and I think they will be better. Actually i think that bonderman is the better of the 2 pitchers but again that is me.

I really disagree with this. If you want to go by young prospects that could produce in the majors, look no further then the Whitesox. They have a ton of young pitching talent that always seems to be lights out in the minors, but when they get to the majors they are busts. Prospects are just that. Cleveland has 2 pitchers I consider decent. Sabathia and Bobby Howry.

 

Cliff Lee had a 5.43 ERA. WOW.

 

Jake Westbrook had his first good season in 6 years. I won't jump on his bandwagon just yet. Millwood also isn't the greatest. So their pitching staff still has a ton of holes.

[qwerty]

on the Road

marky B B

*A+.*

[AngelasDaddy0427]

I have to agree with Qwerty.

If Mark B pitched in a pitchers park he would have won 20 games at least twice in his career by now.

[shakes]

The Indians are the up-and-coming surprise. A great 1-4 in Sabathia, Westbrook, Lee, and Millwood. Their bullpen has had their ups and downs but they are solid as well. A good closer and they are on their way to being as good as the old Indians.

Why is everyone so high on the Indians? Millwood is one of the most overrated pitchers in baseball and will only get worse in the AL. How is their bullpen solid? It was one of the worst in baseball and the only addition is Rhodes. Not much help IMHO.

[AnthraxFan93]

I have to agree with Qwerty.

If Mark B pitched in a pitchers park he would have won 20 games at least twice in his career by now.

I would agree with you, but there are games where he is not "great'" I'd give him and A- to b+ at the highest..

 

He is a great pitcher, but there are times where he kind of falls short

[qwerty]

I would agree with you, but there are games where he is not "great'" I'd  give him and A- to b+ at the highest..

 

He is a great pitcher, but there are times where he kind of falls short

I don't know about you but i will take a couple s***ty starts if he is dominant the rest of them, which he was. He had a 2.63 road era which is just excellent. You cannot expect any pitcher over the course of the year to not '' fall short.''

[AnthraxFan93]

I don't know about you but i will take a couple s***ty starts if he is dominant the rest of them, which he was. He had a 2.63 road era which is just excellent.  You cannot expect any pitcher over the course of the year to not '' fall short.''

Agreed.. I didn't look at the numbers, I must have seen a couple of bad games this year.. and that is what got my attention.

 

So.. who got the pull to make USCF a pitchers park!!

[Harry Chappas]

I think Santana may have an off year. The guy was great but he seemed to wear down as games wore on. How many times did he have a gem going for 5 innings and then get touched up in the 6th or 7th. I will use the Buerhle game last year in Cleveland. If he is on he is on for 9 innings. Sanatana seems to tire and can be had in the late middle innings.

 

Am I wrong?

[raff]

i dont think were far behind boston or the yankees. the twins are right there with us. i say 1) yanks (2) White sox (3) Twins (4) Boston

[JUGGERNAUT]

I think Santana may have an off year.  The guy was great but he seemed to wear down as games wore on.  How many times did he have a gem going for 5 innings and then get touched up in the 6th or 7th.  I will use the Buerhle game last year in Cleveland.  If he is on he is on for 9 innings.  Sanatana seems to tire and can be had in the late middle innings.

 

Am I wrong?

I covet Santana as a White Sox fan.

 

Santana 2004:

 

IP, cum era

Oct. 5@NYY 7.0, 0.00 - great

Oct. 9 NYY 5.0, 0.75 - good

 

Apr. 6 CLE 4.0, 4.50 - poor

Apr. 11@DET 5.0, 5.00 - poor

Apr. 16 KC 6.1, 6.46 - poor

Apr. 22 DET 6.0, 5.91 - good

Apr. 27 TOR 7.0, 5.40 - great

May. 2 ANA 7.0, 4.59 - great

May. 7@OAK 4.0, 5.26 - poor

May. 13 SEA 7.0, 4.47 - great

May. 18 @TOR5.1, 4.70 - poor

May. 23 CWS 3.0, 5.60 - poor

May. 29 @KC 6.1, 5.61 - poor

Jun. 3 TB 7.2, 5.51 - poor

Jun. 9 NYM 7.0, 5.12 - great

Jun. 15 @WAS 8.0, 4.84 - great

Jun. 20 @MIL 8.0, 4.62 - great

Jun. 25 MIL 7.0, 4.38 - great

Jul. 1 CWS 8.0, 4.22 - great

Jul. 6 KC 9.0, 3.89 - great

Jul. 11 DET 8.0, 3.78 - great

Jul. 17 @KC 8.0, 3.55 - great

Jul. 22 TB 7.0, 3.44 - great

Jul. 27 @CWS 6.0, 3.36 - great

Aug. 1 BOS 8.0, 3.30 - great

Aug. 7 OAK 6.1, 3.34 - good

Aug. 12 @SEA 7.0, 3.25 - great

Aug. 18 NYY 7.0, 3.23 - good

Aug. 23 @TEX 8.0, 3.13 - great

Aug. 28 @ANA 7.0, 3.06 - great

Sep. 3 KC 7.0, 2.95 - great

Sep. 8 @BAL 7.0, 2.85 - great

Sep. 14 CWS 7.0, 2.76 - great

Sep. 19 BAL 8.0, 2.65 - great

Sep. 24 @CLE 6.0, 2.62 - good

Sep. 29 @NYY 5.0, 2.61 - good

 

21 great, 5 good, 8 poor

 

 

Santana 2003:

 

Jul. 11 @ANA 6.0, 3.00 - good

Jul. 18 OAK 7.1, 2.84 - great

Jul. 23 KC 5.1, 3.19 - poor

Jul. 29 BAL 5.2, 3.49 - poor

Aug. 3 DET 6.0, 3.46 - poor

Aug. 8 @DET 8.0, 3.19 - great

Aug. 13 CLE 8.0, 2.96 - great

Aug. 19 @CLE 8.0, 2.92 - great

Aug. 24 KC 6.0, 2.85 - good

Aug. 30 @TEX 6.0, 2.72 - good

Sep. 5 TEX 4.0, 3.10 - poor

Sep. 10 @CWS 6.1, 3.03 - good

Sep. 15 @CLE 5.0, 3.11 - poor

Sep. 20 DET 5.2, 3.17 - poor

Sep. 25 @DET 5.0, 3.07 - good

Sep. 30 @NYY 4.0, 0.00 - good

Oct. 5 NYY 3.2, 7.04 - poor

 

4 great, 6 good, 7 poor

 

It would be more of a surprise for Santana to digress in 2005 than to improve.

That's reality. CWS fans just need to deal with it

[jackie hayes]

1.Boston

2.New York

3.Twins

4.White Sox

5.A's( I project they will be about 3 by season's end.

Seems like exactly the right order, and good call on the As. Only thing I'd add is that there are some dark horses that I'd put at 6 & 7, Toronto and the Ms, that shouldn't be left out of the debate, at least based on the rotation. Halladay-Lilly-Bautista-Bush-? looks good (especially since it's an odd numbered year), and Meche-Pineiro-Franklin-Moyer-? can't possibly be as bad as they looked in 2004. Bullpen's a question for each, though.

[JUGGERNAUT]

How can a CWS fan put up Santana's stats & not include Marky B's? Unheard of

 

Apr. 5 @KC 6.2, 2.7 - great

Apr. 10@NYY 8.0, 1.23 - great

Apr. 15 KC 6.0, 3.05 - poor

Apr. 20 NYY 2.0, 5.96 - poor

Apr. 25 TB 7.2, 5.93 - poor

May. 1 TOR 6.2, 5.35 - great

May. 5 @BAL 5.2, 5.27 - good

May. 11 BAL 7.0, 4.53 - great

May. 16 MIN 6.2, 3.99 - great

May. 21@MIN 7.0, 3.84 - great

May. 27 TEX 7.0, 3.46 - great

Jun. 2 @OAK 6.0, 3.30 - great

Jun. 8 PHI 7.0, 3.67 - poor

Jun. 13 ATL 8.0, 3.65 - good

Jun. 18 @WAS 6.0, 4.07 - poor

Jun. 23 CLE 7.0, 4.49 - poor

Jun. 29 @MIN 8.0, 4.33 - great

Jul. 4 @CHC 7.0, 4.15 - great

Jul. 10 SEA 8.0, 4.03 - great

Jul. 16 @OAK 6.0, 4.12 - poor

Jul. 21 @CLE 9.0, 3.86 - great

Jul. 26 MIN 6.1, 3.94 - good

Jul. 31 @DET 9.0, 3.83 - great

Aug. 6 CLE 6.2, 3.83 - good

Aug. 11 KC 7.0, 3.84 - good

Aug. 15 @BOS 7.0, 3.79 - great

Aug. 20 BOS 6.0, 4.00 - poor

Aug. 25 @DET 6.0, 4.02 - poor

Aug. 30 PHI 6.0, 4.13 - poor

Sep. 4 SEA 7.0, 4.12 - good

Sep. 9 @TEX 9.0, 4.03 - great

Sep. 15 @MIN 7.0, 3.98 - great

Sep. 20 MIN 8.0, 4.12 - good

Sep. 25 KC 9.0, 4.00 - great

Sep. 30 @KC 9.0, 3.89 - great

 

18 great, 7 good, 10 poor

 

Marky B's a great pitcher who has some really horrible starts each year.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Apr. 8 ANA 7.0 0.00 - great

Apr. 14 @ANA 6.0 3.46 - good

Apr. 19 OAK 7.0 2.25 - great

Apr. 24 @TEX 7.2 2.60 - great

Apr. 30 @DET 8.0 2.27 - great

May. 6 MIN 7.0 2.11 - great

May. 12 @MIN 7.1 2.34 - great

May. 18 BAL 6.0 2.89 - poor

May. 23 DET 7.0 2.71 - good

May. 29 @BOS 5.2 3.02 - poor

Jun. 4 CWS 7.2 3.18 - good

Jun. 9 HOU 8.0 3.20 - good

Jun. 15 @MIL 7.2 3.23 - good

Jun. 20 @PIT 6.0 3.21 - good

Jun. 25 SD 9.0 3.20 - great

Jun. 30 @MIN 6.0 3.35 - good

Jul. 6 ANA 8.0 3.42 - great

Jul. 11 SEA 6.2 3.45 - good

Jul. 17 @OAK 6.2 3.35 - good

Jul. 22 @CLE 7.0 3.18 - great

Jul. 27 MIN 7.1 3.27 - good

Aug. 1 @DET 7.1 3.35 - good

Aug. 7 CLE 7.0 3.37 - good

Aug. 12 KC 6.0 3.36 - good

Aug. 17 DET 4.1 3.74 - poor

Aug. 22 BOS 7.0 3.84 - good

Sep. 8 @TEX 5.0 3.79 - good

Sep. 14 @MIN 5.1 3.97 - poor

Sep. 19 DET 7.1 3.86 - good

Sep. 24 KC 5.0 3.95 - poor

Sep. 29 @DET 7.0 3.81 - great

 

10 great, 16 good, 5 poor. Garcia is consistently good!

 

I'm changing my evaluation. Yes Santana is now Cy Santana but Buehrle & Garcia may just be the best 1-2 combination in the AL now. Better than Mussina-Pavano, Schilling-Clement, & yes Santana-Radke.

 

It might not show up in W-L in 2005 because you don't lose Maggs, Lee, & part of Frank for a year w/out a significant drop in RPG but I'm going to say right now that Mark-Freddy-El Duque have the best chance to total more quality starts than any 1-2-3 combo in the AL.

[DBAHO]

Buerhle really stepped up huge last season, even after a fairly slow start. The long - term contract he signed definitely helped, and for the money he's making over the next 3 to 4 years, he looks like a bargain in this current market. I don't think we're going to see many pitchers in our rotation have a better home ERA than their road ERA. Buerhle and Garcia most likely won't, I doubt Garland will, Contreras and Hernandez well we really don't know what to expect from them next season.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Contreras 2004 ip, cum era.

 

Apr. 9 CWS 5.1, 8.44 - poor

Apr. 18 @BOS2.1, 9.39 - poor

Apr. 23 BOS 3.1, 10.64 - poor

Apr. 28 OAK 6.0, 7.41 - great

May. 4 @OAK 2.0, 9.47 - poor

May. 22@TEX 6.0, 7.56 - great

May. 27@BAL 6.0, 6.97 - good

Jun. 2 BAL 0.2, 7.11 - poor

Jun. 10 COL 7.0, 6.75 - good

Jun. 15@ARI 6.1, 6.20 - good

Jun. 20 @LA 6.0, 6.18 - good

Jun. 27 NYM 6.0, 5.53 - great

Jul. 3 @NYM 5.0, 6.10 - poor

Jul. 8 TB 6.2, 5.64 - great

Jul. 15@DET 8.0, 5.17 - great

Jul. 20 @TB 7.0, 4.84 - great

Jul. 25@BOS 5.1, 5.36 - poor

Jul. 29 BAL 6.2, 5.65 - poor

Aug. 3 @KC 6.0, 5.49 - good

Aug. 8 CLE 8.0, 5.17 - great

Aug. 13@BOS 6.0, 5.21 - poor

Aug. 18 DET 6.2, 5.08 - good

Aug. 23@DET 5.0, 5.23 - poor

Aug. 28@CLE 6.2, 5.04 - great

Sep. 2 OAK 5.1, 5.10 - poor

Sep. 7@TEX 1.2, 5.55 - poor

Sep. 12@ANA 3.0, 5.88 - poor

Sep. 18 DET 7.0, 5.84 - poor

Sep. 23 KC 5.2, 5.86 - poor

Sep. 28@DET 5.2, 5.77 - good

Oct. 3 @KC 8.0, 5.50 - great

 

9 great, 7 good, 15 poor. You can open your eyes now

Seriously, he's in competition with Jon for the 4 spot.

His numbers are not good enough to be anoited the spot.

 

Contreras 2003 ip, cum era.

 

May. 24 TOR 4.0, 8.74, 1R, 0ER - great

May. 30 @DET 7.0, 5.40 - great

Jun. 5 @CIN 7.0, 4.62 - great

Aug. 24 BAL 7.0, 3.62 - great

Aug. 29 @BOS 3.0, 5.09 - poor

Sep. 4 @TOR 7.0, 4.47 - great

Sep. 9 DET 4.2, 4.40 - good

Sep. 14 TB 7.0, 4.17 - great

Sep. 19 @TB 7.0, 3.84 - great

Sep. 23 @CWS 8.0, 3.39 - great

Sep. 27 BAL 2.0, 3.30 - good

 

7 great, 2 good, 1 poor

 

I would put his potential ahead of Jon's.

 

Without question this is the best rotation KW has assembled since he's been GM.

It rivals that of the 1992-1993 team.

[YASNY]

Why is everyone so high on the Indians? Millwood is one of the most overrated pitchers in baseball and will only get worse in the AL. How is their bullpen solid? It was one of the worst in baseball and the only addition is Rhodes. Not much help IMHO.

To answer part of your question, their bullpen solidified quite nicely when Howry and Wickman came back from the DL. Add Rhodes to the mix, and they can have a decent bullpen.

[chisox05]

First off Vizcaino is better than Politte...Hermanson too...

 

Secondly, don't ever mention Johan Santana in the same sentence as Esteban Loaiza...Santana is a young stud with electric stuff, and has done it before.  Esteban is a journeyman who came from out of nowhere...I can't believe someone even suggested that.

I agree 100%

[CWSGuy406]

I don't know about you but i will take a couple s***ty starts if he is dominant the rest of them, which he was. He had a 2.63 road era which is just excellent.  You cannot expect any pitcher over the course of the year to not '' fall short.''

Qwerty, do you know how to calculate what Buehrle's road ERA would have been without that horrid start in Montreal?

[qwerty]

Qwerty, do you know how to calculate what Buehrle's road ERA would have been without that horrid start in Montreal?

2.28

[beck72]

I see the AL staffs [with RJ going to the Yanks] stacked up this way:

 

1. NYY

2. Bos

3. Ana [could step back to near middle of the pack; but starts the yr near the top]

4. Sox [must get consistency and starts from Jon, Jose and Orlando; could be in the top 3]

5. A's [sP will prob. surprise people; has a lot of upside, esp in the pen with Cruz, Calero, Dotel, Bradford, etc.]

6. Minn. [Questions in 3rd-5th spots, and set up guys in 'pen. Mays and Lohse don't cut it for me. Silva should have an ERA near 5.00. Have to get rookies to step up]

[ChWRoCk2]

1. NYY

2. Bos

3. Sox

4. Ana

5. Cle (tie)

5. Min (tie)