raff Posted December 29, 2004 Author Share Posted December 29, 2004 i dont know, you tell me. i wish people would worry about themselves for once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Na. Old-schoolers will win. Why? Because new-schoolers are p....s! Seriously we'll win because it's human nature to become bored with complacency. Eventually the masses will get so bored with political correctness & moral relativism that they will just start to ignore it & do their own thing. But make no mistake Soxtalk.com is a far more open & tolerant forum than WSI. I think ST admins & mods are partial new-schoolers. They see the value of the goody-2-shoes speak argument but they also have read 1984 & Farenheit 411 & are mindful against censorship. Which means I still have time to convince SS that freedom is better than complacency. That spicey foods are more appealing than bland ones. That hate is not a bad word. That loathing the Cubs is a good thing. That denigrating the Cubs is a good thing. That treating the Cubs & Cub fans as inferior lifeforms is a reasonable thing. Do such things as fan-driven Cub sites actually exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 LCR, you are correct. most discriminated group in america is hetero white males. we cant say anything or do anything. i dont like to use racial slurs, unless deserved by an individual. they are stereotypes. let me explain why gay and f** are not stereotypes: (1) by being gay, a choice (i dont care what anyone says), you are admitting to being attracted to men, and possibly having intercourse with a man, which is against Christianity and normal values. (2) being gay is not being lumped into a catagory. obviously, not all black people like chicken, not all white men talk in a low slow voice, not all irish drink , not all chinese boys are smart. HOWEVER, all gay men LIKE MEN. there is no stereotyping. it is the truth. (3) cause its a free country. p.s. i dont use the word gay as an insult often, it is weak, i used it b/c it was a little quick ryhme. BWHAHAHAHA. We can say whatever they want and have for hundreds of years. Please, your pariah complex is hilarious. And who says what "normal values" are? Firstly, we're not a Christian nation (read the treaty of Tripoli penned by George Washington and passed unanimously by the Constitutional Congress -- "The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion") Plus, gay also refers to lesbians who like women -- so your comment that "all gays like men" holds no water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 i dont know, you tell me. i wish people would worry about themselves for once. Why should I tell you? You said it was a choice... Ah forget it... We should band together and rejoice in Mariotti being off the air! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 So what you are saying is... Someone would choose to be attracted to men (or women) only. Choose to be persecuted. Choose to be ostracized from their family. Choose to be insulted, beaten and in some cases murdered. Choose to never be allowed to get married. Choose to be denied insurance for those they love. Choose to be denied children, work, and common rights? They would choose all this and more? Why? Well, I'm sure Mike North can tell you why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raff Posted December 29, 2004 Author Share Posted December 29, 2004 to lighten this mood back up i will tell ya a good saying i once heard : "i am against gay marrige, unless the two chicks are hot" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I like this Bill Maher routine... But when it comes to homosexuals, Republicans sing "I Love You Just the Way You Oughta Be." They oppose gay marriage because it threatens or mocks -- or does something -- to the "sanctity of marriage," as if anything you can do drunk out of your mind in front of an Elvis impersonator in Las Vegas could be considered sacred. Half the people who pledge eternal love are doing it because one of them is either knocked-up, rich or desperate, but in George Bush's mind, marriage is only a beautiful lifetime bond of love and sharing -- kind of like what his Dad has with the Saudis. But at least the right wing aren't hypocrites on this issue -- they really believe that homosexuality, because it says so in the Bible, is an "abomination" and a "dysfunction" that's "curable": they believe that if a gay man just devotes his life to Jesus, he'll stop being gay -- because the theory worked out so well with the Catholic priests. But the greater shame in this story goes to the Democrats, because they don't believe homosexuality is an "abomination," and therefore their refusal to endorse gay marriage is a hypocrisy. The right are true believers, but the Democrats are merely pretending that they believe gays are not entitled to the same state-sanctioned misery as the rest of us. The Democrats' position doesn't come from the Bible, it's ripped right from the latest poll, which says that most Americans are against gay marriage. Well, you know what: Sometimes "most Americans" are wrong. Where's the Democrat who will stand up and go beyond the half measures of "civil union" and "hate the sin, love the sinner," and say loud and clear: `There IS no sin, and homosexuality is NOT an abomination' -- although that Boy George musical Rosie O'Donnell put on comes close. The only thing abominable about being gay is the amount of time you have to put in at the gym. But that aside, the law in this country should reflect that some people are just born 100 percent outrageously, fabulously, undeniably Fire Island gay, and that they don't need re-programming. They need a man with a slow hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 LCR, you are correct. most discriminated group in america is hetero white males. we cant say anything or do anything. i dont like to use racial slurs, unless deserved by an individual. they are stereotypes. let me explain why gay and f** are not stereotypes: (1) by being gay, a choice (i dont care what anyone says), you are admitting to being attracted to men, and possibly having intercourse with a man, which is against Christianity and normal values. (2) being gay is not being lumped into a catagory. obviously, not all black people like chicken, not all white men talk in a low slow voice, not all irish drink , not all chinese boys are smart. HOWEVER, all gay men LIKE MEN. there is no stereotyping. it is the truth. (3) cause its a free country. p.s. i dont use the word gay as an insult often, it is weak, i used it b/c it was a little quick ryhme. Would those be fightin words? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 So what you are saying is... Someone would choose to be attracted to men (or women) only. Choose to be persecuted. Choose to be ostracized from their family. Choose to be insulted, beaten and in some cases murdered. Choose to never be allowed to get married. Choose to be denied insurance for those they love. Choose to be denied children, work, and common rights? They would choose all this and more? Why? I guess straight people at some point in their lives also made a 'choice' to be hetero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I like this Bill Maher routine... As a self-proclaimed liberal lefty and supporter of the Democratic party, I must shamefully say that Bill Maher is a 100% right about the Dems stance on the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raff Posted December 29, 2004 Author Share Posted December 29, 2004 ive said where i stand. thats it from me on this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 LCR, you are correct. most discriminated group in america is hetero white males. we cant say anything or do anything. i dont like to use racial slurs, unless deserved by an individual. they are stereotypes. let me explain why gay and f** are not stereotypes: (1) by being gay, a choice (i dont care what anyone says), you are admitting to being attracted to men, and possibly having intercourse with a man, which is against Christianity and normal values. (2) being gay is not being lumped into a catagory. obviously, not all black people like chicken, not all white men talk in a low slow voice, not all irish drink , not all chinese boys are smart. HOWEVER, all gay men LIKE MEN. there is no stereotyping. it is the truth. (3) cause its a free country. p.s. i dont use the word gay as an insult often, it is weak, i used it b/c it was a little quick ryhme. Ouch! Raff, if I've followed along correctly, you are fellow South Side Irish (though I've been relocated by circumstance). So a simultaneous and a Of 'of our granfathers disapproving...' My grandfather was a great guy, but racial- and religous- and every other kind of xenophobe prejudice was ingrained into him and in the end he was an ass for not being bigger or better than that. I can say the same thing about 75% of my extended family. I love every last one of them, but we invariably come to blows over these things after a few pints at family gatherings. It's all the worse now that we have one of them there gays that has come out of the closet (and also one or two that never have, as you just didn't back in the 40s and 50s). So now we have a father who once traded f***** jokes right there with the best of them now anguishing over what he could have done to 'make his son gay,' and a family that acts one way when Cousin Johnny is around and another when he's not. There is so much of my working class southside heritage I'm fiercly proud of, but the narrow-minded biggotry is not one of those things. As for you list, I'll only commment on: (1) by being gay, a choice (i dont care what anyone says), you are admitting to being attracted to men, and possibly having intercourse with a man, which is against Christianity and normal values. What does it say about you and your ability to exist in a modern world when you wear a Flat Earther attitude like a badge of honor? You don't care what anyone says? There is a growing body of evidence coming out of academic institutions where these things are studied (not out of guy talk at the corner bar) in support of the contention that people are born with predispositions toward a particular sexual orientation. When the 'gay gene' or genes are found and described, will you still not care what anyone says? As for gayness being against Christianity - well at least the RC Church should have been a little more against it and they could have saved themselves a few hundred million $$ in lawsuits and more than a little bad publicity. As far as it being against 'normal values' - one person by definition cannot define normal. A wise one-time SoxTalker liked to say homosexuality is normal, albeit not normative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 As a self-proclaimed liberal lefty and supporter of the Democratic party, I must shamefully say that Bill Maher is a 100% right about the Dems stance on the issue. That he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 i dont use racial stereotypes, and i dont insult any of the users. i can call jay marriotti what i want. go ahead and ban me for it. . i dont want to start a fight with anyone, but i will if i cant give my opinion of jay marriotti. If calling him gay was meant to mean he is stupid, then why not simply call him stupid? Or perhaps, calling him gay brings in more than just stupid? Maybe you can fool your peer group into that thinking, but you will not fool anyone here. And you have insulted users, users have just told you that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robino_musolino Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Do gays find the use of "gay" as "stupid" offensive? Any gays here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Que the "Twlight Zone" theme... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Well this thread sure has spun off into different directions. First can we get back to what created this? A poster used the word gay in a post as an attribute of Moronitti that had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS SEXUAL PREFERENCE! He believes he was using the word gay to mean .. dumb, or stupid. But I don't think that's the case. There are plenty of words that mean that. No the old-schoool use of gay in the context to something somebody says or does means much more. It's the direct opposite of the new school meaing of "Word". It's not necc dumb or stupid but rather so mundane that it shouldn't have been said or acted. Now the sirens go off in the socialist mind because they believe any usage of the word gay can ONLY have a sexual reference. Baka. Such a colorless world they must live in. Now of course the thread has gone well beyond the issue of free-speech, sarcasm, & slurs to that of gay marriage & the gay issue itself. Makes you wonder if socialist always have alternative sex on their mind Well let me just clear it all up for you from an old-school point of view. Americans are against gay marriage primarily for one reason: they feel they are better than gay people. That's it in a nut-shell. Plain & simple. They don't "feel" that gays are equal to themselves. That feel that sex between a man & woman is more natural, more sacred, more worthy than the rest. Now America is the land of tolerance. Old-schoolers perceive that to mean I'm better than you but I'll tolerate your existence. New-schoolers perceive that to mean equality. I suppose one of these days they'll even want to re-write tolerance to mean equality. It doesn't mean acceptance in any way. It simply means allowing something to exist. Whether it be speech, behavior, or what not. That's all it means. Now do heterosexual Americans & Earthlings for the matter have a right to think they are better than the rest? Well evolution would suggest yes. After all the rest can not continue to exist without some form of heterosexual union. Whether it be in person or in a lab. But even more to the point is the recent scientific findings & where the research is leading. Ahhh .. very interesting indeed. It could have the new-schoolers entire foundation of equality come crashing down. What if I were to suggest that non-heterosexuals were abnormal or defective humans? I suppose a dragnet would form around this thread & incinerate it immediately just like in Farenheit 411. But that is exactly where the research is leading. The prominent theory is now that sexual preference is a function of genetic abnormalities & social abnormalities. In terms of genetics it's linked to Testerone levels during pregnancy. Recent data suggests that the T levels are a good predicter of female & male character traits in the child regardless of the sex. In terms of social abnormalities new case studies suggest many middle-age homosexuals are now seeking therapy because they are unhappy with their lack of maleness. They cite abnormal social upbringings as a cause. Situations were mothers wanted a daughter so much that they treated their sons like daughters. And vice-versa of course. Is it rare? No one knows. The data is incomplete. Just like all sexually related data is. Including the Kinsey report which was founded upon pedophile data to suggest they we are consciously sexually active from the point of our birth. That believe of course leads to the suggestion that sex between humans at any age & with any age difference is both normal & acceptable. All that can be said is that the recent foundings have been so profound that the research is growing. More universitites world-wide are participating & there should be a lot more data to make decisions upon in the years to come. But it is surprising that those involved in the original APA stance back in 73 I believe have even begun to yield. The original stance was that it's not a choice but rather a normal part of nature. Now one of them has conceded that at least 3% of homosexuals & lesbians are indeed a consequence of choice & not nature. You know what happens when you open the door to other possibilities. The crack get bigger & bigger. The biggest threat to the new-school belief on homosexuality of course is not strictly homosexual or heterosexual relations but rather that of bi-sexual relations. The APA has for decades taken the stance that bi-sexuals are the rarest population of alternative sex relations. But recent data in this area is blowing that out of the water. If bi-sexual research is true in it's claim that better than 80% of women have inherent lesbian tendencies & 50% of men have inherent homosexual tendencies then clearly being gay or straight is much more a matter of choice rather than nature. Not that there's anything wrong with that but Earthlings seem to also value that which is natural over that which is choosen. Example: God-given athletic talent is better than chemically induced talent. One is nature & the other is choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I have to say this is the first time I have EVER seen someone not say or write the word dago. (Jugger, d-g-o). Thanks man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Do gays find the use of "gay" as "stupid" offensive? Any gays here? I bet the term is never used around them. Kind of like 'Canadians" wink wink...but I bet no one here has ever used that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Any gays here? I should not even answer this question for some here and that are gone.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 It's about the ability to communicate in a manner that earns you respect and is respectful of the entire Soxtalk community. If the only means you have to communicate is offensive to others, isn't that sad? Some people can justify 100 different ways why they need to be offensive to communicate, they may fool themselves and their like-minded peer group but society isn't fooled for long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 As the resident gaybo on this board, I guess its time to do the inevitable and weigh in. I don't know what makes me gay, or bi or whatever the hell I am. I just know what I am - I know its not something I can change, and its not something I've chosen. I'm pretty sure I'm still a Christian and espouse Christian values in many of my actions every day. I'm not arrogant enough to assume that I lead a perfect, saintly life - but I try to follow the Golden rule and the ten commandments. I pray. As to being normal, I hope to God I'm not normal - because I don't think the world could take a whole lot of mes. Now I've seen and heard some stupid s*** on this board, but Juggernaut, what you've said could easily qualify as the most pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo I've ever read here - or possibly anywhere else. You basically insinuated that gay people are sub human, or at least not as human as you or any other straight person. And I'd obviously, respectfully disagree. "Gay" is "our" word for what we are. Taking that word and turning it into an insult is akin to you taking African-American and making it mean lazy. It wouldn't be acceptable. So for most people in the gay community, its not acceptable to them. You also said that we are the land of tolerance. Wrong. We are a land of equality, maybe you should consider the phrase "All men are created equal." But maybe that's too old school for you. Throw whatever bulls*** science you wanna throw at me about homosexuality or bisexuality being a choice. Being that I wanted, for a long time, nothing more than to change from what I was and couldn't, I'd beg to differ. Your sexuality is not a conscious choice. However, bigotry is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I guess straight people at some point in their lives also made a 'choice' to be hetero. i know i did! seriously, raff you are a really insensitive jackass with no regard to others' feelings. So what if you believe all that s*** we dont need to know it especially when it doesnt actually pertain to ANYTHING at hand. You're entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong, but thats the beauty of america. So if you're entitled, shouldn't everybody else? Including gays? how bout this: what's the point of using the word as "stupid"? can you just give a logical/reasonalbe answer? if you can prove why gay is a better word to use than any other adjective i'll be ok with you using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 (edited) Well said wino, I hoped we can keep this thread from turning onto raff . . . note: edited to clean up spelling . . . Edited December 29, 2004 by Texsox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Hey, lets not insult folk here. I'm sure one day, they'll figure stuff out on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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