AnthraxFan93 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Let's see if Ryne Sandberg still wants to play then :rolly I'm confused on why you kids are excited over a player who against RHP is avg at best against LHP flat out sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 I'm confused on why you kids are excited over a player who against RHP is avg at best against LHP flat out sucks The league average in the american league for batting average was .279, exactly what willie hit against right handers. His obp against righties was .366 league average .348 against both right handers and left handers. So as long and willie does not see a lefty he is prefectly fine. League average for second baseman was a .260 average with a .319 obp. Looks like he was better than both to me. So in his first full year he was just as good if not better than the majority of the second baseman in the american league. But let's not let the facts get in the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Taking into consideration that Harris has just gotten his first exposure to somewhat regular playing time at the big league level, I think he did ok. I don't believe he'll ever be an all star, but I would expect a ceratin level of improvement from him. I expect him to dramtically improve his base stealing. He's proven in the minors that he knows how to steal bases. I think it was a matter of him not wanting to screw up that made him tentative in that area. He will have more confidence this year and a coach in his ear that knows when it's appropriate to steal a base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 The Sox would love to sign an infielder cheaply who can fill in and really hit well against LHP. The only guy I can see out there besides Iguchi who we don't know how we would hit out here, is Miguel Cairo. Now by all reports St. Louis was the favorite to sign him, and they still might, even though they gave Robbie Alomar a non guaranteed 1 year $500,000 deal. But for about 1.5 to 2 mil for a couple of years, this guy will fill in at 2B and SS, and hit about .280 or better for you, and will give you great splits against LHP. Cairo should be our next target if we miss out on Iguchi, but you never know what KW's thinking especially with Alex Cora still out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittleWalk83 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Let me see. Willie Harris in his first season as a semi full time player improved his average, OBP and SLG. Add to the fact that he is 27 and people want to get rid of him? But most of these same people are happy with a 40 year old pitcher, who is coming off an arm injury, and the more innings he pitches the HIGHER his ERA is. It can only be The Sky is Falling White Sox fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Let me see. Willie Harris in his first season as a semi full time player improved his average, OBP and SLG. Add to the fact that he is 27 and people want to get rid of him? But most of these same people are happy with a 40 year old pitcher, who is coming off an arm injury, and the more innings he pitches the HIGHER his ERA is. It can only be The Sky is Falling White Sox fan. I don't think many people have a problem with Willie's numbers. I think people have a problem w/ a player who says w/ a straight face that he should hit .300 and steal 50 bases "easy" when he's just hit .260 and stole 19 bases. Nothing worth having is easy. Willie would do well to do what Aaron Rowand did before the 2004 season--work his ass off. Then, after the season when Willie hits .300 and steals 50 bases, everyone will know he put in the effort to get the job done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosox41 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 come on Willie is not the answer,i think Grudziclaneck,polanco would be good enough and maybe even Bellhorn(little power but Ks ALOT)anyone of the 3 over willie Doesn't Grudz have a abd back? Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Let me see. Willie Harris in his first season as a semi full time player improved his average, OBP and SLG. Add to the fact that he is 27 and people want to get rid of him? But most of these same people are happy with a 40 year old pitcher, who is coming off an arm injury, and the more innings he pitches the HIGHER his ERA is. It can only be The Sky is Falling White Sox fan. So you wouldn't mind sending out Jason Grilli and his 8+ ERA every 5th day then? Like it or not, El Duque was realistically the only starter still available in free agency who was going to be in our price range so that we could still fill other needs if we had to. Odalis Perez is going to get over $7 million from Seattle, the Mets or Washington, Millwood got $7 mill a season from the Tribe, and you saw how much Eric Milton got. The problem with Willie wasn't his OBP or average. It was mainly two things. 1 - He was too god damn inconsistent, 5 for 5 one night, and then 0 for 5 the next. If the Sox are going to play small ball, they need consistent production every night. 2 - Willie just can't hit LHP. It's a fact of life, it could change in the future, I don't know. Will the Sox wait and see for that to happen? Probably not. That's why it's likely Miggy Cairo or Iguchi is going to be here instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan14 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Willie Harris can so be our 2nd baseman! He's good! We don't need to go sign anyone else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Don't know if this has been posted before It's believed the White Sox are only offering Japanese second baseman Tadahito Iguchi $2 million per season. Iguchi isn't going to get the Kaz Matsui money he was hoping for, but he's worthy of a better deal than Orlando Hernandez received from the White Sox. If no team steps up with a more signficant proposal, Iguchi likely will return to Japan. from rotoworld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Dec 31, 2004 -> 07:51 AM) The problem with Willie wasn't his OBP or average. It was mainly two things. 1 - He was too god damn inconsistent, 5 for 5 one night, and then 0 for 5 the next. If the Sox are going to play small ball, they need consistent production every night. HMMM , lemme do the math here. 5 for 5 one night + 0 for 5 the next night = .500 BA. I think I'll take that "inconsistency". Face it hitting a baseball is an inconsistent thing anyway, since a good hitter fails 7 out of every 10 at bats. Do you dismiss entirely his range , defense and speed ? Granted he sucks against lefties but he could get better and if not pinch hit for him in the late innings if need be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 <!--QuoteBegin-DBAH0+Dec 31, 2004 -> 07:51 AM--> QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Dec 31, 2004 -> 07:51 AM) <!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem with Willie wasn't his OBP or average. It was mainly two things. 1 - He was too god damn inconsistent, 5 for 5 one night, and then 0 for 5 the next. If the Sox are going to play small ball, they need consistent production every night. HMMM , lemme do the math here. 5 for 5 one night + 0 for 5 the next night = .500 BA. I think I'll take that "inconsistency". Face it hitting a baseball is an inconsistent thing anyway, since a good hitter fails 7 out of every 10 at bats. Do you dismiss entirely his range , defense and speed ? Granted he sucks against lefties but he could get better and if not pinch hit for him in the late innings if need be. Thing is, he will go 5-5 one night then 1-14 the next three games. You can look through out the course of the year. It happended like that way too often for my liking and many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Thing is, he will go 5-5 one night then 1-14 the next three games. You can look through out the course of the year. It happended like that way too often for my liking and many others.This has been a recurring knock on Harris but is it really so? Remember the 0'fer stat we talked about in the fall? The number of games where a player has more than 1 at bat but no hits or walks. Willie: 104 G 22 0'fers 21% Alex Cora: 122 G 36 0'fers 30% Miguel Cairo: 104 G 28 0'fers 27% I think Willie sticks in people's minds as inconsitant because he looks SO lost when has a poor match up. Oz held him out a lot when the match up was not favorable, this -I think- helped his numbers. But it also shows that used right, there is a lot of mileage to be gotten out of Harris. It remains a priority to get an IF on the roster who can handle the type of pitchers that Willie can't. The other hope is that Willie learns to bunt or walk on these guys and contribute on days he is overmatched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 either way you have to sign an infielder for depth. Pick one. I personally don't like Harris because of his inconsistancy. I also think, he is not very smart, but maybe better coaching can help that. I just do not have alot of confidence in his ability at the plate. Bring in somebody that can push him and play several positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Tlak, good points. So many of the issues with Harris are subjective and it's difficult to quantify some of the pro's and cons. I like to look at the bigger picture and watch what management is doing or not doing, we all have our opinions but let's face it, they're closer to the situation and know more than we do. Sox have locked up all this veteran pitching so this team is not by any stretch in a rebuilding mode. The White Sox are in "proven performer" mode, and judging by what they've done and what it appears they're trying to do, it seems like they want nothing to do with growing pains. Look at catching. KW comes out and says he's "comfortable" with Davis and Burke, yet they chased Kendall and now Pierzynski. To me, that's good business. Support who you have, but try to improve. Neither Davis or Burke are proven commodities, they are both serviceable but KW wants more ... as do the fans. Now look at 2B. Without getting back into the Harris debate for the umpteenth time, KW is looking to augment at a minimum and probably upgrade. Whether or not they sign Iguchi, KW is looking. Again, good business. Guillen probably popped off a bit too much on Harris at year's end, after Harris himself did. They have not come out and trashed Harris this winter but they are clearly looking to upgrade. Why would they want to upgrade on a guy who is good defensively and statistically had a decent year (average, stolen bases, etc.)? Because there is something they don't like about Willie Harris. It could be "this" it could be "that" it could be who knows what. We as fans can guess and we may be 100% right. We sit back and say, "why go after Cora or Cairo or Iguchi, their stats or proven abilities aren't better than Harris?". Well first of all it's not all about stats. Second, if their scouts think Iguchi for example is a clear upgrade over Harris ... they should do it and sign him. Despite the extremely frustrating economic handcuffs with this franchise, KW in particular is trying to win. "Good enough" isn't good enough, they want the best possible option given their payroll constraints. We are saying Harris is best suited as a #9 hitter. To me, that's not good enough. The 2B is an ideal guy to be a #1 or #2 hitter. If our current 2B is ideal as a #9 hitter for 2005, we should be looking for an upgrade. And that's exactly what KW is doing, he's looking for an upgrade. This should all play out this week. It will be very interesting to see what they can get done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChWRoCk2 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 instead of signing an infielder we may be better off calling a minor up to see what talent they might have. i think its worth the risk plus im not a huge cairo fan, and cora is not one of the greatest fielders, either way were still gonna have problems at second base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 instead of signing an infielder we may be better off calling a minor up to see what talent they might have. i think its worth the risk plus im not a huge cairo fan, and cora is not one of the greatest fielders, either way were still gonna have problems at second base <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In 2005, the White Sox are not in the mode of testing unproven minor leaguers. They want to go with proven performers vs. a Wilson Valdez type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I think Willie can get it done at 2nd, but Iguchi seems like a solid player with a ton of speed. I'd love to get him, but it's not the end of the world if we don't. I think catcher is a more pressing need for this team right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I prefere to stay with Willie. Willie and Juan were great in the infield together last year. I think they'll do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(WilliamTell @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 06:07 PM) I prefere to stay with Willie. Willie and Juan were great in the infield together last year. I think they'll do it again. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Exactly my point. Who knows if anyone else we get will have that chemistry. I think Willie will only improve and he'll be batting 9th. Then we can get a guy like Cairo to platoon with him. Cora gives us nothing that we don't already have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Exactly my point. Who knows if anyone else we get will have that chemistry. I think Willie will only improve and he'll be batting 9th. Then we can get a guy like Cairo to platoon with him. Cora gives us nothing that we don't already have. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wonder how many games Uribe and Harris played in 2004 as the SS-2B combo, and why it's assumed they have such great chemistry. Further, if the chemistry was so great and everything is fantastic, why is KW looking to add somebody at 2B? Something doesn't add up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 07:18 PM) I wonder how many games Uribe and Harris played in 2004 as the SS-2B combo, and why it's assumed they have such great chemistry. Further, if the chemistry was so great and everything is fantastic, why is KW looking to add somebody at 2B? Something doesn't add up. its because he knows the limitations of Willie Harris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 its because he knows the limitations of Willie Harris. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And so do you, and so do I. They're not looking at other 2nd basemen just to do it. We can all have our opinion on this board but they're not thrilled with Willie Harris, no question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 01:18 PM) I wonder how many games Uribe and Harris played in 2004 as the SS-2B combo, and why it's assumed they have such great chemistry. Further, if the chemistry was so great and everything is fantastic, why is KW looking to add somebody at 2B? Something doesn't add up. Maybe because he is so cocky an arrogant and is yet to achieve anything on the major league level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 02:38 PM) Tlak, good points. So many of the issues with Harris are subjective and it's difficult to quantify some of the pro's and cons. I like to look at the bigger picture and watch what management is doing or not doing, we all have our opinions but let's face it, they're closer to the situation and know more than we do. Sox have locked up all this veteran pitching so this team is not by any stretch in a rebuilding mode. The White Sox are in "proven performer" mode, and judging by what they've done and what it appears they're trying to do, it seems like they want nothing to do with growing pains. Look at catching. KW comes out and says he's "comfortable" with Davis and Burke, yet they chased Kendall and now Pierzynski. To me, that's good business. Support who you have, but try to improve. Neither Davis or Burke are proven commodities, they are both serviceable but KW wants more ... as do the fans. Now look at 2B. Without getting back into the Harris debate for the umpteenth time, KW is looking to augment at a minimum and probably upgrade. Whether or not they sign Iguchi, KW is looking. Again, good business. Guillen probably popped off a bit too much on Harris at year's end, after Harris himself did. They have not come out and trashed Harris this winter but they are clearly looking to upgrade. Why would they want to upgrade on a guy who is good defensively and statistically had a decent year (average, stolen bases, etc.)? Because there is something they don't like about Willie Harris. It could be "this" it could be "that" it could be who knows what. We as fans can guess and we may be 100% right. We sit back and say, "why go after Cora or Cairo or Iguchi, their stats or proven abilities aren't better than Harris?". Well first of all it's not all about stats. Second, if their scouts think Iguchi for example is a clear upgrade over Harris ... they should do it and sign him. Despite the extremely frustrating economic handcuffs with this franchise, KW in particular is trying to win. "Good enough" isn't good enough, they want the best possible option given their payroll constraints. We are saying Harris is best suited as a #9 hitter. To me, that's not good enough. The 2B is an ideal guy to be a #1 or #2 hitter. If our current 2B is ideal as a #9 hitter for 2005, we should be looking for an upgrade. And that's exactly what KW is doing, he's looking for an upgrade. This should all play out this week. It will be very interesting to see what they can get done. solid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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