The Vazquez "Auction" Begins

[Chisoxfn]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather steer clear of this whole situation.  If Arizona's starting point for their asking price is Konerko + Contreras/Garland, than that right there is already too much to be giving up.

 

Losing Konerko would be bad.  I know Ozzie/Kenny have been talking about speed and defense over power -- well, the reason we haven't won anything the past couple seasons isn't because we had too much power.  Rather, it's because all the power was coming from solo shots, rather than homers with men on base.

 

If JR is willing to budge just a wee bit more (payroll wise), I'd go after Miguel Cairo and AJ Pierz -- lock up those two to two year deals, maybe a three year for Pierz (he's still fairly young, younger than Ben Davis IIRC), and you have yourself a damn good team heading to Tuscon.

 

Pods (The Harris/Cairo platoon could leadoff, too, if Podsednik were to struggle)

Rowand

Thomas/Everett

Konerko

Dye

Pierz

Uribe

Crede

Harris/Cairo

 

The bullpen is awesome, and the starting rotation is light years ahead of what we went into 2004 with...  I really think we'd see a lot of consistency from that lineup, and with our pitching staff, that's a really good thing to have.

No I agree with you. I'd target AJ and Itguchi or another 2nd baseman and call it an offseason. Unless of course Arizona's demands are a lot less then all of us think or if another good starting pitcher becomes available.

 

I think thats what Kenny plans on doing too.

[redandwhite]

No I agree with you.  I'd target AJ and Itguchi or another 2nd baseman and call it an offseason.  Unless of course Arizona's demands are a lot less then all of us think or if another good starting pitcher becomes available. 

 

I think thats what Kenny plans on doing too.

Arizona already has Erik Bedard, Luis Matos, Jay Gibbons, and Jorge Julio on the table from Baltimore. This is going to be a deal similar to the Richie Sexson one last season, except this time around, the Diamondbacks are going to be the ones getting the grab bag.

[supernuke]

Wow! How could Arizona turn down an offer like that?

 

Upnorthsox, Jose Contreras had to waive his no-trade clause at the last minute to come here last offseason.  He mad the comment along the lines "If you don't want me in your house, I'll leave."

 

Contreras isn't going anywhere.

Of course the dbacks would turn it down, but at this point I don't see Vazquez being worth any more to the Sox.

[danman31]

Why in the hell would they be messing with this. The Sox have 5 decent starters, some better than that. Why would the Sox be working on trading 2 starters for 1 as some have brought up and why would the Sox even want Vazquez? BOOK THE OFFSEASON PLEASE!

[JUGGERNAUT]

Garland has always been mentioned in the early Vazquez trade talks. Contreras was never mentioned. So I think any deal for Vazquez is definitely going to include Garland.

 

Again this goes back to whether the SOX can sign Koney to an extension. If they feel that won't happen then they are better off trading him now where is value is the highest. If they think they can sign him to an extension then they need to figure out a pkg AZD would want built around Garland.

 

Vazquez is still valued as a front rotation starter. That doesn't come cheap.

He's more likely to bounce back vs ALC than Clement is to succeed vs the ALE.

[upnorthsox]

Well funny things happen on the trip between the trade table and the pay window, it wasn't that long ago(3 weeks maybe?) that there was no way in hell that NY was going to make a solo deal with ARI because they didn't want NY's prospects. And was it really that long ago that Colon went to the last man standing for a couple of young mediocre relievers and an injured 40 something starter. Come to think of it, would anyone have guessed just a month ago that 2 of the big 3 would be traded and then for the little they brought in return.

 

The one thing you can say in KW's favor right now is that he's positioned himself to walk away from any deal for JV that he doesn't dictate the terms to. Frankly, if Philly is willing to give up Wolf for JV then there's no point in even pursuing it further but I'm highly skeptical of that report.

[AddisonStSox]

I think thats what Kenny plans on doing too.

That's 100% right on Jas.

 

Kenny has targeted these last two positions. We will not be in the Vazquez hunt (and that is a good thing).

[AngelasDaddy0427]

The thread is too long to read the entire thing but I don't want Vazquez here at the price of Garland. Especially with no money invovled. Garland and Konerko both would be when hell freezes over.

[Sanjay2000]

If I were a GM, I would easily take Jon Garland over Javier Vazquez...sure, Jon Garland's numbers have not been phenomenal over his career but keep in mind that he's still very young and he has experience and he's just gonna keep getting better and better...with Jon Garland, you are really paying for the future because he has the stuff and experience will just keep making him better...sure he struggled early in his career but that was more because Jerry Manuel had no confidence in him...if your boss at work keeps talking you down and never gives you challenges, how can you expect to get better? Garland is young and could easily pitch another 15 years in the big leagues...at 15 wins a season, Garland could easily still win 300 games and go to the Hall of Fame...it would be a grave mistake to trade Jon Garland right now...his sinker is also perfect for US Cellular Field too...Vazquez is ovverrated, his health is questionable and he got rocked in the AL, he's an NL type pitcher i think and he has a great arm but his upside is not as high as Garland's...Garland if he puts it together could easily win the Cy Young which gives us four Cy Young Quality arms (Contreras, Buehrle, Garcia, and Garland) to go with the crafty veteran El Duque, only the Chicago Cubs and New York Yankees have better rotations than the Chicago White Sox

[YASNY]

I'm one of the biggest Garland backers at Soxtalk ... but HOF? C'mon.

[DBAHO]

If there is a package that can ink Vazquez with Jose Contreras being the starting point, I am all for acquiring him.  In my opinion, he will come back next season and will be a top ten pitcher in the cy young voting next season.

 

With that being said, there won't be any deal that involves Jose Contreras and prospects.  There just won't.  More likely they'd be looking for one of the cheap youngsters such as Rowand or Uribe, two players I am unwilling to give up.

 

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.  The Diamondbacks already have an offer on the table for Shawn Green that includes Halsey and Navarro.  If that is the sole player they are recieving then I have problems with that deal, but if they can get some other player such as a Hee Seop Choi or something, they could make out real well.

 

How upset would you be with the White Sox if they traded two of the best pitchers in baseball and recieved Casey Fossum, Brandon Lyon, compensation draft picks for Richie Sexson, and Shawn Green.  My guess is Vazquez won't be traded for quite some time. The Vazquez deal will be a trade that will either make or break the Arizona Diamondbacks for the next five-plus years.

Contreras just won't be dealt for the simple fact that KW wants to see what he can do for half a season under Coop. If he's struggling, then there's a good chance he could moved ALA Esteban Loaiza, especially if El Duque is still healthy and B-Mac is possibly ready to jump up as the 5th starter.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

Jon Garland a better value then Vazquez...Yes...

Jon Garland with more upside then Vazquez...Yes...

Jon Garland in the hall of fame or winning a CY Young...no offense but pass that bong over here....

[Chisoxmatt]

QUOTE (Sanjay2000 @ Dec 31, 2004 -> 06:49 PM)

If I were a GM, I would easily take Jon Garland over Javier Vazquez...sure, Jon Garland's numbers have not been phenomenal over his career but keep in mind that he's still very young and he has experience and he's just gonna keep getting better and better...with Jon Garland, you are really paying for the future because he has the stuff and experience will just keep making him better...sure he struggled early in his career but that was more because Jerry Manuel had no confidence in him...if your boss at work keeps talking you down and never gives you challenges, how can you expect to get better? Garland is young and could easily pitch another 15 years in the big leagues...at 15 wins a season, Garland could easily still win 300 games and go to the Hall of Fame...it would be a grave mistake to trade Jon Garland right now...his sinker is also perfect for US Cellular Field too...Vazquez is ovverrated, his health is questionable and he got rocked in the AL, he's an NL type pitcher i think and he has a great arm but his upside is not as high as Garland's...Garland if he puts it together could easily win the Cy Young which gives us four Cy Young Quality arms (Contreras, Buehrle, Garcia, and Garland) to go with the crafty veteran El Duque, only the Chicago Cubs and New York Yankees have better rotations than the Chicago White Sox You were making sense at first then you said he might play 15 more years and get 300 wins and win the Cy young. I agree with you when you say it would be a grave mistake to trade him. I think he has a lot of potential, not as much as you said, but more than Vazquez anyway. Whether the Sox have the 3rd best rotation in the MLB right now is questionable. We wont know until the season is finished, but the Sox rotation is definitley a good one.

[southsideirish71]

QUOTE (Jeckle2000 @ Jan 1, 2005 -> 04:42 AM)

Jon Garland a better value then Vazquez...Yes... Jon Garland with more upside then Vazquez...Yes... Jon Garland in the hall of fame or winning a CY Young...no offense but pass that bong over here.... Jeckle that fine crack you smoke must be getting to your head.   Garland does not have more upside than Vasquez

[beck72]

QUOTE (Sanjay2000 @ Jan 1, 2005 -> 12:49 AM)

If I were a GM, I would easily take Jon Garland over Javier Vazquez...sure, Jon Garland's numbers have not been phenomenal over his career but keep in mind that he's still very young and he has experience and he's just gonna keep getting better and better...with Jon Garland, you are really paying for the future because he has the stuff and experience will just keep making him better...sure he struggled early in his career but that was more because Jerry Manuel had no confidence in him...if your boss at work keeps talking you down and never gives you challenges, how can you expect to get better? Garland is young and could easily pitch another 15 years in the big leagues...at 15 wins a season, Garland could easily still win 300 games and go to the Hall of Fame...it would be a grave mistake to trade Jon Garland right now...his sinker is also perfect for US Cellular Field too...Vazquez is ovverrated, his health is questionable and he got rocked in the AL, he's an NL type pitcher i think and he has a great arm but his upside is not as high as Garland's...Garland if he puts it together could easily win the Cy Young which gives us four Cy Young Quality arms (Contreras, Buehrle, Garcia, and Garland) to go with the crafty veteran El Duque, only the Chicago Cubs and New York Yankees have better rotations than the Chicago White Sox There is no guarantee Garland will get better and better. He has shown spotty progress at best. I do like his consistency and ability to stay healthy   Vazquez overrated? He has shown all-star, "ace" type progression in the last 4 yrs, with being named an allstar in 2004 based on his 10-5 record, and 3.57 era in the AL. One poor 1/2 a season shouldn't discount the 3 1/2 yrs of steady and stellar work on lousy Mon. teams.   But Garland has more upside than Vazquez?! Not a chance.

[witesoxfan]

QUOTE (beck72 @ Jan 1, 2005 -> 05:45 AM)

One poor 1/2 a season shouldn't discount the 3 1/2 yrs of steady and stellar work on lousy Mon. teams.   UNLESS he was injured.   I want nothing to do with Vazquez, especially at the asking price. We are fine with our rotation right now, and if needed, we can get another good starter at the trading deadline(or before)

[beck72]

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 1, 2005 -> 09:58 PM)

I want nothing to do with Vazquez, especially at the asking price. We are fine with our rotation right now, and if needed, we can get another good starter at the trading deadline(or before) I'm sure the teams after Vazquez have the medical reports on him [esp as he was the big piece in the RJ deal and the deal took a while to get done]. If he was injured, it prob. wasn't anything long term.   And we don't know the asking price. But it is less than what was being talked about before.

[beck72]

I was checking the O's site for some Vazquez info. I think they have the cash, the need and could part with a few players to get him. Yet one thing got me thinking. The whole "Vaz will only go to an east coast team" thing. It probably has to do with Vaz and his family traveling back and forth to PR. Well, I checked on some flights and there was about a 20-30 minute difference between flights to Baltimore [bwi] and Chicago [ORD] from San Juan PR.

 

While Chi. isn't on the east coast it's a decent plane flight away. So that excuse is out the window.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

QUOTE (upnorthsox @ Dec 31, 2004 -> 07:01 AM)

LOL!!!   Something about the phrase "Outfielder Paul Konerko" just gets me giggling. He's proven he can steal a base, why not let him try his hand at playing center?

[DBAHO]

Found this about Vazquez in Phil Rogers' latest piece. A Navarro and Vazquez for Green and prospects or players pethaps?

 

Javier Vazquez is no dummy. According to research done by the White Sox, Vazquez wants to stay in the NL once he officially becomes property of the Diamondbacks. So don't look for GM Ken Williams to get in line with the teams hoping Arizona will trade him.

[beck72]

QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 01:19 PM)

Found this about Vazquez in Phil Rogers' latest piece. A Navarro and Vazquez for Green and prospects or players pethaps?   If he limits himself to only NL teams [and ones on the east coast] where does LA fit in? esp if he wants to be near his family. Even though Vazquez has no say in where he goes, any team trading for him has to be prepareed he'll ask to become a FA. Though realistically, will he give up the remaining $35 mill he's owed? Prob. not. Though with an allstar type yr, he could get a lot of cash as a FA   I wonder what the deal is w/ only wanting to pitch in the NL. I know that's what he's known, and it's easier. But if true, sounds pretty weak to me.

[beck72]

QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 01:19 PM)

Found this about Vazquez in Phil Rogers' latest piece. A Navarro and Vazquez for Green and prospects or players pethaps?   In Rogers' 12-30 piece, he wrote about KW not getting Vazquez and then added "not yet anyway". Something changed in the last few days?

[DBAHO]

<!--QuoteBegin-beck72+Jan 3, 2005 -> 12:48 AM-->

QUOTE (beck72 @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 12:48 AM)

<!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DBAH0+Jan 2, 2005 -> 01:19 PM--> QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 01:19 PM) <!--QuoteEBegin--> Found this about Vazquez in Phil Rogers' latest piece. A Navarro and Vazquez for Green and prospects or players pethaps?   If he limits himself to only NL teams [and ones on the east coast] where does LA fit in? esp if he wants to be near his family. Even though Vazquez has no say in where he goes, any team trading for him has to be prepareed he'll ask to become a FA. Though realistically, will he give up the remaining $35 mill he's owed? Prob. not. Though with an allstar type yr, he could get a lot of cash as a FA   I wonder what the deal is w/ only wanting to pitch in the NL. I know that's what he's known, and it's easier. But if true, sounds pretty weak to me. I only thought of the dodgers not based on the fact that he doesn't want to go to the West Coast, but since the D-Backs and Dodgers are likely to trade anyways, the Dodgers are in the NL, and L.A needs some good starters in their rotation, but looking at it more closely, it probably isn't a good fit.   If Vazquez is to be traded to an NL team only, teams that come to mind as possible trading partners would be the Marlins, Mets and Phillies.

[beck72]

QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 02:02 PM)

I only thought of the dodgers not based on the fact that he doesn't want to go to the West Coast, but since the D-Backs and Dodgers are likely to trade anyways, the Dodgers are in the NL, and L.A needs some good starters in their rotation, but looking at it more closely, it probably isn't a good fit.   If Vazquez is to be traded to an NL team only, teams that come to mind as possible trading partners would be the Marlins, Mets and Phillies. Az is stupid if they trade him within the NL and within their divison to LA. Then they have to face Vazquez a number of times.   If I were AZ, I'd get the best deal possible, regardless of where he wanted to go. It's not like Vazquez deserves special treatment, like his child is dying and he needs to be near his home in PR.   I see the Marlins and Phils being interested. But Balt. seems the likeliest spot--they have the cash, players and need

[YASNY]

Vazquez wants the NL because he's spent a year going against those 1-9 solid lineups in the AL. Very few easy outs.