DBAHO Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Thought this was interesting to see; Williams would have loved to have landed one of the two aces Oakland dealt last month, Thornwood High's Mark Mulder and Tim Hudson. The price for neither struck him as exorbitant. "The first one surprised me," Williams said. "The second one shocked me." Atlanta sent Oakland left-hander Dan Meyer (9-3, 146 strikeouts, 37 walks in 126 innings between Double A and Triple A), right-hander Juan Cruz and outfielder Charles Thomas for Hudson. St. Louis got Mulder for right-handers Dan Haren and Kiko Calero and catching prospect Daric Barton. Athletics GM Billy Beane projects Meyer and Haren into a rebuilt rotation with Barry Zito, Rich Harden and Joe Blanton. The Sox did not have a single young, inexpensive starter who interested Beane. "I doubt Billy has gotten more phone calls about his Big Three [starters] from anyone else than me over the last 2½ years," Williams said. "Our dialogue is ongoing today. But he decided he wanted a major-league-ready, zero-to-three [years' experience] starter, and that guy had to be a [potential] front-of-the-rotation guy. He looked at us and didn't see a fit." Beane didn't want Jon Garland and wasn't willing to take a gamble on Brandon McCarthy, who is 30-13 as a pro and led the minors with 202 strikeouts last season but hasn't pitched above Double A. So if the Sox had a young pitcher with loads of potential who was major league ready (can anyone say Kris Honel or even Corwin Malone if things worked out), Tim Hudson or Mark Mulder could very well be on the Southside as we speak. Over time, we'll see if B-Mac ends up being a better pitcher than Haren or Meyer though, and whether or not Mr. Moneyball did indeed make the right deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 01:23 PM) Thought this was interesting to see; So if the Sox had a young pitcher with loads of potential who was major league ready (can anyone say Kris Honel or even Corwin Malone if things worked out), Tim Hudson or Mark Mulder could very well be on the Southside as we speak. Over time, we'll see if B-Mac ends up being a better pitcher than Haren or Meyer though, and whether or not Mr. Moneyball did indeed make the right deal. If B-Mac continues his success this yr in AA and AAA, then he'd have the same type value Meyer or Haren had. I think the A's want someone who can pitch this yr. B-Mac will likely be ready in 2006. With the Sox SP's set, they can let Bmac develop. The sox haven't had a SP from the minors who could help out right away. Keeping BMac is a must and should make him untradeable. [though getting a guy like Mulder for 2 yrs would have been worth it] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 BB not wanting a .500 pitcher with a whiny attitude and a soft tosser in JG is no shock to me, teams around the league loathe JG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvjeremylv Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 08:09 AM) BB not wanting a .500 pitcher with a whiny attitude and a soft tosser in JG is no shock to me, teams around the league loathe JG. LOL, no kidding. Why would the A's give up a stud starter for prospects and a mindless loser? Beane's no idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 I gotta say I am intreagued to see that there was no interest in BMac. I wonder if we have him overrated, or Beane was just looking for someone a little closer to the majors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 Well, we shall see if Billy Beane is the genious he certainly believes he is.... he taking a big ass gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 I think billy's making a huge mistake here. I'm willing to bet that bmac turns out better then Haren, I'm not that high on Danny, I think he's a bit overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 01:38 PM) I think billy's making a huge mistake here. I'm willing to bet that bmac turns out better then Haren, I'm not that high on Danny, I think he's a bit overrated. how good are the kids that beane got for Mulder and Hudson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 QUOTE(MurcieOne @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 01:36 PM) Well, we shall see if Billy Beane is the genious he certainly believes he is.... he taking a big ass gamble. I just want to say this outloud, but does anyone else see the Bulls 1998 parallells? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 QUOTE(MurcieOne @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 01:39 PM) how good are the kids that beane got for Mulder and Hudson? Well obviously these are just my opinions. Meyer and Barton are very good prospects especially Barton. Calero is a very solid bullpen arm, Cruz was outstanding last year and we all know he has a dynamite arm should be interested to see if he can carry that success over without Leo. I personally like Thomas, he was pretty good in a short stint with Atlanta last year, I think he'll be a solid major league player-nothing special. As far as Haren goes he's been rated pretty highly for a while in the cards organization, I've seen him pitch a couple of times and I'm just not to high on him, don't think he's going to be that good especially not a top of the rotation guy like some think he may be. Once again jmo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Interesting piece. I think it would of been more then worth it to give up Bmac for either Hudson or Mulder but I can see where Beane is coming from. I think that both the Braves and Cardinals did good and I think Beane is crazy for trying to dump payroll, especially since he seems to think Jason Kendall was worth increasing payroll for, although considering he gave up Rhodes and Redman it wasn't a major increase, but in general young pitchers at least not all of them pan out and I think the A's are going to quickly find out that Beane isn't as great as everyone thought he was. Its a lot easier to get by with a mistake or two when you have the big 3 plus Harden, thats not going to be the case anymore. They do have some good young arms though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 12:53 PM) I gotta say I am intreagued to see that there was no interest in BMac. I wonder if we have him overrated, or Beane was just looking for someone a little closer to the majors? I am thinking more that he doesn't want to risk Hudson or Mulder on a guy who has not proven himself at even AA. Also I keep reading that people are worried to rate BMac too high based on one year. I don't think we are overrating him as much as other people, especially when trading ace pitchers away in Beane's case, are going to be more cautious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 B-Mac had his first really good year this year as opposed to Haren or Meyer who have had really good years more than once. But, I still think if Brandon can add a little more to his fastball, he could be unstopable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I think Haren is going to be very good in the future. This year, he'll be a good back of the rotation guy and then develop into a front end starter like Buehrle did in 2000 when he came out of the bullpen, this year will be Haren's 2001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 yeah despite Oakland trading away 2 of the big 3 their rotation should still be solid especially if Zito returns to form... dont doubt Beane until he has a losing season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittleWalk83 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 yeah despite Oakland trading away 2 of the big 3 their rotation should still be solid especially if Zito returns to form... dont doubt Beane until he has a losing season. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Doubts about Beane will always be there until and unless his team win a playoff series. All this crap about having a low payroll and still winning the division is crap. I would much rather be the Marlins who won a WS but not make the playoffs in any other year the past five years. And if any White Sox fans says anything different, they are liars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(KittleWalk83 @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 04:04 AM) Doubts about Beane will always be there until and unless his team win a playoff series. All this crap about having a low payroll and still winning the division is crap. I would much rather be the Marlins who won a WS but not make the playoffs in any other year the past five years. And if any White Sox fans says anything different, they are liars. To an extent. The Marlins are a different circumstance. It's comparing apples and oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosox41 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 01:38 PM) I think billy's making a huge mistake here. I'm willing to bet that bmac turns out better then Haren, I'm not that high on Danny, I think he's a bit overrated. He might be. But Beane never said he didn't like BMac. The article said he wanted pitchers that are major league ready. Both Haren and Myer were good in the minors. Nohing wrong with wanting guys to come in now. That being said, there is a chance that B-Mac can be better then one or both of them. But Beane doesn't want to wait the year. The issue here seems to be major league readiness not whether B-Mac will be better. This may be bad thinking on Beane's part but can you really blame him on passing on a Sox pitchng prospect who has had 1 year of success at AA and may be ready in '06 when he can get a guy who is slightly more proven and ready to contribute now? Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosox41 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(SuperSteve @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 03:44 AM) To an extent. The Marlins are a different circumstance. It's comparing apples and oranges. Exactly. both of the Marlins championships are due to spending big in free agents. That's how the Marlins won in 1997. Then they began trading off all these good players (rightfully or wrongfully selling highat the time) and acquring good prospects by trade while suffering through a couple of rebuilding seasons and high draft picks. I don't think the Marlins would have won either championship if they didn't break the bank in 1997. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Unless we were going to do a multi-year extension with Hudson or Mulder, I for one am thrilled we didn't trade Brandon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosox41 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 08:35 PM) yeah despite Oakland trading away 2 of the big 3 their rotation should still be solid especially if Zito returns to form... dont doubt Beane until he has a losing season. Even then I wouldn't doubt Beane. Just about every team is going to need to rebuild eventually, especially those in the bottom half in payroll. And while Beane has made his share of mistakes...and not trading for B-Mac may be one of them, he does have a plan. One thing I've noticed is a couple of years ago his thing was to find a cheap middle reliever and turn him into a successful closer. Then trading him when his value increased and finding a replacement. Lately, it seems Beane has been going after catching. Outside of finding good pitching, finding a good catcher is probably hte enxt most diffiicult thing. It appears to me that the he is eventually going to trade some of his catching prospects to fill holes. We as Sox fans know how difficult it is to find a halfway decent catcher let alone a good one. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 What cheap middle reliever did he turn into a successful closer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 11:31 AM) What cheap middle reliever did he turn into a successful closer? Keith Foulke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosox41 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 11:31 AM) What cheap middle reliever did he turn into a successful closer? Isringhausen. I thought there was someone else, but guess I was wrong. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Gammons i think said the A's could be better this year i wouldnt go that far but id say competetive still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.