T R U Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(MurcieOne @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 10:39 PM) Do the bears really need another CB? Tillman, Azumah, Vasher, and McQuarters if we still want him.... thats a solid group no? Considering this might be the worst offense to ever hit the field in the NFL... dont you go offense early and often? Nah they dont need a QB, they would be stupid not to draft a young WR that Grossman will be able to grow with.. They lack in the WR department especially after moving booker.. WR needs to be the way they go.. And yes, Kiper only ranks seniors, he does not rank the juniors.. so what your lookin at from him so far is just senior rankings as of now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Sign a Free Agent WR or two. Trade down for two 1st round picks. Select a OL and then a LB. 2nd round, select a DB. It's so simple! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(knightni @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 10:44 PM) Sign a Free Agent WR or two. Trade down for two 1st round picks. Select a OL and then a LB. 2nd round, select a DB. It's so simple! The only teams that have 2 first round picks as of now are San Diego and Dallas and Chicago would have to fight Miami in that department because I am almost positive that Miami will be trading down from the #2 spot in this draft.., And if Rodgers and Leinart come out, thats only better news for Miami because if teams fall in love with one of them they will be looking to move up to grab them.. and Dallas may just be one of those teams with Vinny at the end of his career and the fact that they are not satisfied with Henson and dont think he is the answer for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Also, Muhammed is going to be 32 this next season, Chicago would be in much better shape if they traded down a bit and picked up one of the big 3 names at WR in this draft instead of signing someone who may only be around a few years.. Plus they would most likely come at a cheaper and more cap friendly contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I think we should go with last years theory. Pick the same position with our second pick too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(knightni @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 10:44 PM) Sign a Free Agent WR or two. Trade down for two 1st round picks. Select a OL and then a LB. 2nd round, select a DB. It's so simple! Who's going to be available at that position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Do you trust Angelo to pick an offensive player? Do you trust Lovie Smith to develop an offensive player? Who would you prefer your new young draft pick playing under, Ron Rivera or Terry Shea? Lets say we draft Williams or Edwards. Our offensive line needs drastic improvement for him to make an impact. High pick WR's are no guarantee. Last year he was projected below Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, and probably slightly above Reggie Williams. REC YDS AVG LNG TD Reggie 27 268 9.9 26 1 Roy 54 817 15.1 46 8 Now either Williams or Edwards would probably put up numbers in this area. But it will most likely be lower, because neither are as talented as Roy, but both should not do as bad as Reggie. As for the Bears CBs, I think Tillman could be a legitimate 1-2, but he is still very raw and Im not sure if in a playoff game I would be 100% comfortable with him on Moss, etc for a whole game. Azumah is still learning, and I think that a 3rd cb is a perfect position for him. He would cover slot recievers where he could match them with his quickness, and generally be against less talented recievers. Also I think 3 good to great cbs are a necessity for any defensive football team. Vasher then becomes the 4th cb, or even potentially fs if ever the Bears wanted to move Brown to SS. This also will give them a very deep unit if injuries should arise, so that they are not forced to watch RW flail his arms around hoping that he will hit the ball as it falls over his head. To think that the Bears will make a good pick with an offensive player is to deny history. We might as well get our moneys worth, and try and sign veteran free agents for offense who can run a system. Great defense with mediocre offense wins games. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 10:57 PM) Do you trust Angelo to pick an offensive player? Do you trust Lovie Smith to develop an offensive player? Who would you prefer your new young draft pick playing under, Ron Rivera or Terry Shea? Lets say we draft Williams or Edwards. Our offensive line needs drastic improvement for him to make an impact. High pick WR's are no guarantee. Last year he was projected below Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, and probably slightly above Reggie Williams. REC YDS AVG LNG TD Reggie 27 268 9.9 26 1 Roy 54 817 15.1 46 8 Now either Williams or Edwards would probably put up numbers in this area. But it will most likely be lower, because neither are as talented as Roy, but both should not do as bad as Reggie. As for the Bears CBs, I think Tillman could be a legitimate 1-2, but he is still very raw and Im not sure if in a playoff game I would be 100% comfortable with him on Moss, etc for a whole game. Azumah is still learning, and I think that a 3rd cb is a perfect position for him. He would cover slot recievers where he could match them with his quickness, and generally be against less talented recievers. Also I think 3 good to great cbs are a necessity for any defensive football team. Vasher then becomes the 4th cb, or even potentially fs if ever the Bears wanted to move Brown to SS. This also will give them a very deep unit if injuries should arise, so that they are not forced to watch RW flail his arms around hoping that he will hit the ball as it falls over his head. To think that the Bears will make a good pick with an offensive player is to deny history. We might as well get our moneys worth, and try and sign veteran free agents for offense who can run a system. Great defense with mediocre offense wins games. SB The bears offense is FAR from mediocre, they are dead last in the league for that matter.. They need to get Grossman a weapon, and Mike Williams, Braylon Edwards, and Mark Clayton would all be very good fits for them.. Williams is in a Keyshawn Johnson mold, except he has a better attitude.. Braylon really broke out this year and was a very very good WR and theres really no reason to suspect he wouldnt be good in the pros.. I think he has a better upside than Terrell coming out of college.. And Mark Clayton, he is an amazing deep threat and AMAZING after the catch, hes a burner.. Personally I think they need to trade down and get more picks and grab Clayton, but sitting at #4 they are going to have a lot of options to play with.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Also, it might be time for the Bears to realize they need to try and draft a running back.. thats where I think two guys that may get overlooked would be a good fit for them.. JJ Arrington and Ciatrik Fason.. they are being overshadowed by the big 3 at RB this draft and could be VERY solid runners in the NFL.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 If they trade with Dallas. Derrick Johnson OLB from Texas will be at #10 and Jammal Brown OT from Oklahoma should be available at #23. Bryant McFadden DB from FSU would be available at the 4th pick of round 2 possibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(knightni @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 11:03 PM) If they trade with Dallas. Derrick Johnson OLB from Texas will be at #10 and Jammal Brown OT from Oklahoma should be available at #23. Bryant McFadden DB from FSU would be available at the 4th pick of round 2 possibly. Actually I wouldnt be surprised if DJ got taken before 10.. he is a lock to be a starter as soon as he steps on the field IMO.. Same with Brown.. he may not be around for 23 either.. Barron and Brown are two of the top tackles in the draft, actually depending on the draft status of Ferguson they ARE the two top tackles in the draft I also think its gonna be very hard for Chicago to trade with Dallas if they have their eye on one of the two QB's thats IF they both declare.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Guys -- If memory serves me correctly, we traded this years second round pick to Miami along with Booker, in the Ogunlye trade -- no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 11:13 PM) Guys -- If memory serves me correctly, we traded this years second round pick to Miami along with Booker, in the Ogunlye trade -- no? No that would be your 3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Well, at least we're in a pretty good position this year. Lot's of guys to look at -- Williams, Clayton, Johnson, Barron, Rolle -- trade down, take two. If there were a scenario in which we can grab Johnson and Clayton, I'd be all for that. But those two are studs, I doubt that they last that long... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(Man Of Steel @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 05:13 AM) No that would be your 3rd Ah -- thanks for clearing that up. I'm just thinking about Reggie Bush. Damn, is he good. No linebacker in the NFL would be able to guard him one on one, put him in the slot, put him in the backfield. Perfect fit for Lovie's "fast" (or what's supposed to be) offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Johnson could very well be drafted 3. If he runs sub 4.5, its not outside the Brown's to draft him at 3. Brown I think will be gone that late as well. If we got 10 and 21 for arguments sake, we could probably hope for Edwards or Williams at 10 for WR or Barron, Ferguson, and Brown. At 21 youd be looking at Clayton for WR, Mcneil at tackle, Munoz, who knows, hard to guess at all this early. I mean ideally with a 10 21 trade youd want Williams or Edwards and whichever tackle slips to 21. But that just might not happen. And I really think its suicide to take a WR at 4, if niether Edwards or Williams runs even a 4.5 40. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 11:14 PM) Well, at least we're in a pretty good position this year. Lot's of guys to look at -- Williams, Clayton, Johnson, Barron, Rolle -- trade down, take two. If there were a scenario in which we can grab Johnson and Clayton, I'd be all for that. But those two are studs, I doubt that they last that long... I dont really think the bears are going to be in a posistion to trade down for two first rounders unless San Diego falls in love with someone at #4 Miami is a much more logical pick for Dallas to trade down with if there is a fight for one of the top two QB's But trading down wouldnt be bad for them.. they could go quite a few spots IMO and still land whichever WR they wanted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 11:16 PM) Johnson could very well be drafted 3. If he runs sub 4.5, its not outside the Brown's to draft him at 3. Brown I think will be gone that late as well. If we got 10 and 21 for arguments sake, we could probably hope for Edwards or Williams at 10 for WR or Barron, Ferguson, and Brown. At 21 youd be looking at Clayton for WR, Mcneil at tackle, Munoz, who knows, hard to guess at all this early. I mean ideally with a 10 21 trade youd want Williams or Edwards and whichever tackle slips to 21. But that just might not happen. And I really think its suicide to take a WR at 4, if niether Edwards or Williams runs even a 4.5 40. SB Exactly thats why I think they would be able to trade down a few spots and get some additional picks and still land the WR that they want.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Well.. Clayton might be sitting there in the late teens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Who do you trade with and how far down? Im just saying at 4, unless you think Ferguson is the second coming, you take Rolle. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(knightni @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 11:20 PM) Well.. Clayton might be sitting there in the late teens. Im pretty sure Clayton will be there in the teens.. and if they are going to trade down they would only need to look a few spots up to see who would wanna move up a few unless a higher teams comes to them with their 1st and 2nd this year to switch with them.. like a team in the teens.. it would even cost them more than that too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 http://www.nfldraftworld.com/tvc.htm According to that chart, the Cowboy trade would be fair at about our 1 and 4, for their first 2. I looked at another chart and it seems similar as well. Also, how do we for sure get 4? Our record is tied with other teams? SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 11:31 PM) http://www.nfldraftworld.com/tvc.htm According to that chart, the Cowboy trade would be fair at about our 1 and 4, for their first 2. I looked at another chart and it seems similar as well. Also, how do we for sure get 4? Our record is tied with other teams? SB It is determined by SOS and it is already FOR SURE the Bears have the #4 pick.. And Like I said, I dont see the Cowboys trading up unless it is to get one of the top 2 QB's thats IF they both declare and if that was the case Miami at #2 would be the team they trade with since it is not out of the question for Cleveland to take a QB and since they are #3 trading with Chicago would not help them out.. But there are still combines and what not so they may fall in love with another player and think they HAVE to have him at #4, who knows.. but the Bears would only give up #4 and most likely get BOTH Dallas 1st rounders and a 3rd in the deal.. those top picks are worth a s*** load in the NFL Draft San Diego got NYG 1st, 2nd, 5th and this years 1st just for moving down 3 spots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(Man Of Steel @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 12:36 AM) but the Bears would only give up #4 and most likely get BOTH Dallas 1st rounders and a 3rd in the deal.. those top picks are worth a s*** load in the NFL Draft San Diego got NYG 1st, 2nd, 5th and this years 1st just for moving down 3 spots Thank you Jonathan Quinn! :banghead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Okay wasnt sure if it was SOS or if it was coin toss. Also, the chart gives list of values: Last years trade was: 1 for, 4 a 3rd round pick, and a 1st and 5th next year. That is: 3000 pts for, 2255 this year, and a 1st and 5th next year, so anywhere between 3000 and 600. And no way can we get both 1st rounders, and a 3rd, 2 1sts are already heavily in our favor, let alone a 3rd on top. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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