olp_nch Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 hey, im new on here... Even with the HUGE loss of Maggs in RF, I think this will be a much better team. I'm very happy with getting rid of "stone hands" Lee, and a big upgrade to the pen. If we can get AJP, we will be a very solid team...still neading a middle infielder. Problem: loudmouth AJP vs. loudmouth Everett :finger Flyer: I want Loaiza. Dead arm and all.... he could come at almost no cost. I say just get him at a minor league contract (no offers yet?) and see if he can fill long relief, or step in as an ALT #5 starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Welcome to soxtalk. I think everett being a cancer and an all around bad guy was totally blown out of proportion.He is not a problem in my eyes. Loaiza wants a three year deal as it stands. Even though he blew last year, there is no way in hell he signs a minor league contract with anyone, dead arm or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp_nch Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 Role Last April 2005 No. 1 starter Mark Buehrle Buehrle No. 2 starter Esteban Loaiza Freddy Garcia No. 3 starter Jon Garland Orlando Hernandez No. 4 starter Scott Schoeneweis Jose Contreras No. 5 starter Dan Wright Garland Closer Billy Koch Shingo Takatsu set-up man Cliff Politte Dustin Hermanson set-up man Damaso Marte Marte Middle relief Mike Jackson Luis Vizcaino Middle relief Jon Adkins Politte Long relief Neal Cotts Jason Grilli or Cotts Im sure you all saw this on ESPN, but here is our Pitching staff (so far). A deffinate upgrade from top to bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I say we are better. Welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_LEE45 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Welcome I agree were much better this year BUT iam not going to DIS my boy C LEE he gave 110% since hes been with us and keep his mouth shut and didnt talk s*** when he got traded like sorry ass Magglio doing QUOTE(olp_nch @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 10:46 PM) hey, im new on here... Even with the HUGE loss of Maggs in RF, I think this will be a much better team. I'm very happy with getting rid of "stone hands" Lee, and a big upgrade to the pen. If we can get AJP, we will be a very solid team...still neading a middle infielder. Problem: loudmouth AJP vs. loudmouth Everett :finger Flyer: I want Loaiza. Dead arm and all.... he could come at almost no cost. I say just get him at a minor league contract (no offers yet?) and see if he can fill long relief, or step in as an ALT #5 starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 On paper we are a better team..lets just hope there is not to many "rainouts" this year :sleep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulokis Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I think we are better, hope the change will relieve us of recently called up pitchers pitching like a Cy young winner against us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChWRoCk2 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 rainouts wont make a difference, we need to score more consistently, there would be a day where we score nine runs and go silent the rest of the series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 rainouts wont make a difference, we need to score more consistently, there would be a day where we score nine runs and go silent the rest of the series <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It was a metaphor...what happens to paper in the water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosox41 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Jan 2, 2005 -> 10:53 PM) Welcome to soxtalk. I think everett being a cancer and an all around bad guy was totally blown out of proportion.He is not a problem in my eyes. Loaiza wants a three year deal as it stands. Even though he blew last year, there is no way in hell he signs a minor league contract with anyone, dead arm or not. Everett's problem is his weight. He needs to get his act together or risk looking like a Brontosaurus. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(gosox41 @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 12:16 PM) Everett's problem is his weight. He needs to get his act together or risk looking like a Brontosaurus. Bob And if that happens, he would be forced not to believe in himself, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I never really thought Maggs made us a good team. What exactly did we win with him here? A fluke division title in 2000 was about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninem Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(olp_nch @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 04:46 AM) hey, im new on here... Even with the HUGE loss of Maggs in RF, I think this will be a much better team. I'm very happy with getting rid of "stone hands" Lee, and a big upgrade to the pen. If we can get AJP, we will be a very solid team...still neading a middle infielder. Problem: loudmouth AJP vs. loudmouth Everett :finger Flyer: I want Loaiza. Dead arm and all.... he could come at almost no cost. I say just get him at a minor league contract (no offers yet?) and see if he can fill long relief, or step in as an ALT #5 starter. How the hell can you call Lee 'stone hands'? You do realize he had no errors last year, right? :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(gosox41 @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 12:16 PM) Everett's problem is his weight. He needs to get his act together or risk looking like a Brontosaurus. Bob QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 12:34 PM) And if that happens, he would be forced not to believe in himself, right? Ah didn't believe in no dinosours 'til I looked in the mirror one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(keninem @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 11:49 AM) How the hell can you call Lee 'stone hands'? You do realize he had no errors last year, right? :headshake haha seriously.. the only thing to be happy about with Lee is gone is we moved payroll.. but he was prolly our best all around player last year.. and we moved him for a bullben arm and a guy whos OBP was like .313 We took a risk on that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(FlaSoxxJim @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 11:34 AM) And if that happens, he would be forced not to believe in himself, right? Yeah and we're still paying off for that one lucky year. We haven't gotten any major lucky breaks the past 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(knightni @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 11:52 AM) Ah didn't believe in no dinosours 'til I looked in the mirror one day. Yes, we took a risk. But, with the report in Sept of KW and OG talking to Lee and telling him what he needed to work on, and the after trade bad press on Carlos, I believe there was more to Carlos Lee than met the eye of the average fan and that what we didn't know was a negative. When KW and OG talked to Lee, they might not have liked his attitude or responses to what they had to say. The main advantage the Twins have held over the Sox is their cohesiveness. Carlos may have been more of a problem than he was an asset. I know this speculation on my part, but I don't think I'm just blowing smoke here. I believe there's something to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Oops ... quoted the wrong post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I'm very happy with getting rid of "stone hands" Lee, and a big upgrade to the pen. "Stone hands?" You have to be kidding right? Goodbye credibility. :headshake :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Lee was terrible in the outfield, regardless if he made any errors or not. Half the time he never got to balls that most players would get to and perhaps the main reason he had no errors if that he only on occasion made difficult plays. There are a lot of times I remember balls dropping right in front of him throughout the years. Let's not make him out to be such a great outfielders, folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 06:30 PM) Lee was terrible in the outfield, regardless if he made any errors or not. Half the time he never got to balls that most players would get to and perhaps the main reason he had no errors if that he only on occasion made difficult plays. There are a lot of times I remember balls dropping right in front of him throughout the years. Let's not make him out to be such a great outfielders, folks. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The problem is that Lee's defense improved every year. You can't look at what he did in 2002 and compare it to 2003. You can't look at 2003 and compare it to 2004. When he first started in LF yeah he sucked. Maybe he might never have the best range but I think Carlos is lightyears ahead of when he started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 12:30 PM) Lee was terrible in the outfield, regardless if he made any errors or not. Half the time he never got to balls that most players would get to and perhaps the main reason he had no errors if that he only on occasion made difficult plays. There are a lot of times I remember balls dropping right in front of him throughout the years. Let's not make him out to be such a great outfielders, folks. Lee's range factor(1.98 compared to the league average of 1.73), and his range factor per 9(2.06 compared to 2.04, the league average), both tell me he is average to above average, and his zone rating of .875 was 5th among LFers who qualified(16 LFers qualified)...and you may look at that and see that Moises Alou in 4th with a zone rating of .884 would lead a person to believe that stat is misleading, but you also have to consider that Alou's range factor per 9 was 1.66, that he made 8 errors in about 60 more innings then Carlos, and had fewer assists too while having fewer put outs, and it makes a little more sense. Carlos is not bad...I don't get where everyone is coming with that. He is not good, not like even close to a GG caliber OFer...but he is not bad. I would put him in a category of slightly above average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Maggs is no longer the player he once was. His agent has avoided physicals & tryouts in Dec (the busiest off-season month). That's a sure sign he's trying to avoid the injury risk issue. Maggs will sign with a team that is solid in RF but has the extra cash to take the risk. If he can play at all the Cubs certainly come to mind. But if you had to do the odds I would say there is less than a 50% chance Maggs can play a full season in 2005 & less than a 30% chance he's close to 300/30/100. So when considering those odds vs Jermaine Dye, Dye is a much lower risk with a better expected production level. Dye 2005 is definitely an upgrade over Maggs 2005. Lee will be missed. You can knock his defense all you want, but he made wall plays & he showed a good arm. He never lacked effort. He was becoming a more patient hitter & that was driving up his production both at home & on the road. The Brewers are luckly to have him. I will look forward to him being a much bigger CubKilla force now. But the White Sox did upgrade the total OF. With the additional of Pods the White Sox have upgraded all OF positions defensively. That's what they wanted. When you move the fences in you need guys who can make wall catches. Rowand, Pods, & Dye are those guys. With the move all 3 positions now feature strong arms that should help cut down the total bases of the opposition. Yes Pods went from 313 to 244 & saw a similar drop in his OBP as a result. But he still managed to steal 70 bases last year. Up 25 from the year before. The White Sox are a +59 in stolen bases now & project to beat Min in that dept by 30. Does it make a difference? Absolutely! The stolen base is one of the most humilitating actions in baseball for team on the field. If everybody does their job to the best of their ability in theory a runner can not steal a base. So when it happens someone didn't perform at their best. That gets inside a pitcher's head. Even if it doesn't result in a run scored in the inning it still results in more pitches thrown under the highest amount of stress. Do it often enough & a pitcher will leave early. This is also why I hope Kenny does sing Iguchi. Two expert base-stealers at the top of the order would make the White Sox the favorites to win the ALC. That kind of pressure faced 4/5 times a game is going to greatly weardown the opposition. Even if both hit 250, with an OBP of 330, they are still going to have a major impact. Especially in the ALC where the pitching for the most part is weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 04:01 PM) Lee's range factor(1.98 compared to the league average of 1.73), and his range factor per 9(2.06 compared to 2.04, the league average), both tell me he is average to above average, and his zone rating of .875 was 5th among LFers who qualified(16 LFers qualified)...and you may look at that and see that Moises Alou in 4th with a zone rating of .884 would lead a person to believe that stat is misleading, but you also have to consider that Alou's range factor per 9 was 1.66, that he made 8 errors in about 60 more innings then Carlos, and had fewer assists too while having fewer put outs, and it makes a little more sense. Carlos is not bad...I don't get where everyone is coming with that. He is not good, not like even close to a GG caliber OFer...but he is not bad. I would put him in a category of slightly above average. I have said something similar to this many times and people usually come back with, ''well he is still a bad outfielder.'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 06:57 PM) I have said something similar to this many times and people usually come back with, ''well he is still a bad outfielder.'' Yup. People have it in their heads that CLee was poor defensively and are too stuborn to admit he was fantastic last year. He made significant improvements each and every year with both his glove and his bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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