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Winnin Ugly

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Interesting comparisons for Willie Harris nay sayers. 1st year stats:

 

G AB R H HR RBI BB SO SB CS OBP AVG

Durham 1995 CHW 125 471 68 121 7 51 31 83 18 5 . 309 .257

Harris 2004 CHW 129 409 68 107 2 27 51 79 19 7 .343 .262

 

We might as well stick with Harris one more year and see what he can give us.

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QUOTE(striker62704 @ Jan 8, 2005 -> 11:49 AM)
Interesting comparisons for Willie Harris nay sayers. 1st year stats:

 

                          G    AB    R  H  HR  RBI  BB  SO  SB  CS OBP  AVG

Durham 1995 CHW 125  471  68 121 7    51 31 83 18 5 . 309  .257

Harris    2004 CHW 129  409  68 107 2    27 51 79 19 7    .343  .262

 

We might as well stick with Harris one more year and see what he can give us.

I have no problem with willie, I've said that before, however ray can bunt and knows how to steal bases, also ray has consistantly had a very good obp, ray would be a great guy to plug in, in the 2 slot of the order.

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Ray was traded because we wouldn't meet his contract demands. Now when we are looking at what he is getting paid we all feel it is too much, so I guess our front office was right to begin with. Just like all my favorite pitchers that we let leave broke down during the long term contracts our front office wouldn't give. At the time I was pissed and said we wouldn't make a commitment to winning. One seriously bad contract like say Magglio at 14 million per could cripple us. Oh well, I guess it is hard to be sentimental when you have to follow a budget.

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QUOTE(striker62704 @ Jan 8, 2005 -> 11:49 AM)
Interesting comparisons for Willie Harris nay sayers. 1st year stats:

 

                          G    AB    R  H  HR  RBI  BB  SO  SB  CS OBP  AVG

Durham 1995 CHW 125  471  68 121 7    51 31 83 18 5 . 309  .257

Harris    2004 CHW 129  409  68 107 2    27 51 79 19 7    .343  .262

 

We might as well stick with Harris one more year and see what he can give us.

 

 

 

But there's a significant difference: Ray was 23, and Willie was 26. Ray hadn't gotten anywhere near his full performance level, Willie.....

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While he was undoubtedly one of my favorite players while he was with the Sox, this guy is very streaky.

 

It always seemed as Durham went, so went the Sox.

 

He was a very good player in the late 90's and 2000.

 

Not sure what he has left in him now, especially considering the multiple stints he's had on the DL since going to San Francisco.

 

If we could land him with the Giants eating a major portion of the deal, I'd love to have him back. Definitely an upgrade over Harris.

 

But if we have to pay a lot of the remaining dollars, forget it.

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QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jan 8, 2005 -> 12:25 PM)
While he was undoubtedly one of my favorite players while he was with the Sox, this guy is very streaky.

 

It always seemed as Durham went, so went the Sox.

 

He was a very good player in the late 90's and 2000.

 

Not sure what he has left in him now, especially considering the multiple stints he's had on the DL since going to San Francisco.

 

If we could land him with the Giants eating a major portion of the deal, I'd love to have him back.  Definitely an upgrade over Harris.

 

But if we have to pay a lot of the remaining dollars, forget it.

 

Ditto my thoughts. Ray would be perfect for the two hole as a switch hitter and a good handler of the bat. Plus if he still has any wheels left, that could be huge at the top of the line up.

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QUOTE(103 mph screwball @ Jan 8, 2005 -> 05:28 PM)
If the Sox can afford Durham, couldn't they afford Polonco instead?  I think he'd be a better fit if the Phillies would part with him.  Maybe KW is putting pressure on the Iguchi negotiations.

 

Excellent point.

 

If your gonna go one step for the older, worse player in Durham, why not go the extra mile and get the younger, and making-less-money Polanco? I'd (easy for me to say sitting right here, right? :lol: ) take on the five million in his contract for Adkins and Harris. Or, hell, maybe we could just get him for Adkins. They lost Rodriguez in the Lofton trade, so I bet they could probably use another arm in their bullpen, a young one, too.

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QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 8, 2005 -> 12:41 PM)
Excellent point.

 

If your gonna go one step for the older, worse player in Durham, why not go the extra mile and get the younger, and making-less-money Polanco?  I'd (easy for me to say sitting right here, right?  :lol: ) take on the five million in his contract for Adkins and Harris.  Or, hell, maybe we could just get him for Adkins.  They lost Rodriguez in the Lofton trade, so I bet they could probably use another arm in their bullpen, a young one, too.

Ray's older but he's still a better player then Polanco, obviously the big difference is the money......

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QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 8, 2005 -> 05:52 PM)
I have no problem with willie, I've said that before, however ray can bunt and knows how to steal bases, also ray has consistantly had a very good obp, ray would be a great guy to plug in, in the 2 slot of the order.

 

Bunting is a confidence thing.

 

If your a confident bunter, it's easy to get it down.

 

Harris obviously wasn't confident last year, and, how could he be confident? He was jerked around in the lineup way too often, IMHO.

 

Durham is making way, way too much money for us to take on. No thanks...

 

Oh, one more thing. Durham knows how to steal bases, yet only has 23 in the last three years... :huh:

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QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 8, 2005 -> 12:45 PM)
Bunting is a confidence thing.

 

If your a confident bunter, it's easy to get it down.

 

Harris obviously wasn't confident last year, and, how could he be confident?  He was jerked around in the lineup way too often, IMHO.

 

Durham is making way, way too much money for us to take on.  No thanks...

 

Oh, one more thing.  Durham knows how to steal bases, yet only has 23 in the last three years...  :huh:

Ray has over 200 sb's for his career and something like a 78 percent success rate. He knows how to steal a base, I think him not running these last few years has more to do with his injuries then anything else. I'm sure if he came to the sox you'd see him running much more.

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QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 8, 2005 -> 12:45 PM)
Bunting is a confidence thing.

 

If your a confident bunter, it's easy to get it down.

 

Harris obviously wasn't confident last year, and, how could he be confident?  He was jerked around in the lineup way too often, IMHO.

 

Durham is making way, way too much money for us to take on.  No thanks...

 

Oh, one more thing.  Durham knows how to steal bases, yet only has 23 in the last three years...  :huh:

Bunting is a skill. I'm not saying willie can't become a good bunter but as of right now he's brutal at it.

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QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 8, 2005 -> 06:50 PM)
Bunting is a skill.  I'm not saying willie can't become a good bunter but as of right now he's brutal at it.

 

I think it's much more about confidence. Obviously, you'll be a lot more confident in it if you practice it a lot, but Harris isn't a terrible bunter. And bunting definitely shouldn't be a reason to like/dislike a guy.

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QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 8, 2005 -> 12:52 PM)
I think it's much more about confidence.  Obviously, you'll be a lot more confident in it if you practice it a lot, but Harris isn't a terrible bunter.  And bunting definitely shouldn't be a reason to like/dislike a guy.

Tell ozzie that. Like I said I have no problem with willie as the starting 2b, however I'd like someone on this team that can bat 2nd to move aaron down and bunting for a number 2 hitter is essential.

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For starters...I was one of the first to bring up the thought of Ray Durham earlier in the offseason, so I'mma pat myself on the back here real quick :D

 

Secondly...there is no way I want him back at around 7 mill a year for 2 years. That's insane. If San Fran takes on half of that, then we can talk.

 

Thirdly, Ray can steal bases, and he can do it well...but I don't want him trying to steal anymore then 30 times this year if he is not fully healthy. He has proven to be quite injury prone in San Francisco, having only played 110 games and 120 games respectively with them...that's roughly 2 DL trips a year.

 

Finally...he or Polanco would both be very good #2 hole hitters for us. I wouldn't be sad if we acquired either one of them.

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I know this makes for great fodder but shouldn't we all just relax. One we have no written proof of anything. two, whoever started this rumor just keep folks up to date. I just think until this gets picked up by other media its just nonsense. it seems to be an awlful lot of money for a guy that is 3 or four years older than when he left. I like the idea but, its just the word of a radio station that is 3000 miles away.

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First off, no one is going to convince me that Polanco is better than a healthy Ray Durham. Secondly, if the Giants pick up 3 mill each year of the deal then its a fantastic move for the White Sox. Even 2.5 mill each year. The Giants just want to clear up a little payroll and I Don't think its as much about who they get as it is getting his contract off the books cause they added quite a bit in payroll this year.

 

So I'm guessing one of Diaz, Munoz could do it. Some may gripe about that, but not me. Durham gives the Sox a very fast top of the order, but he's also a good OBP guy and still solid defensively. However, if he's picked up, then it becomes obvious someone has to come in to be a backup middle infielder (guy that can play both ss and 2nd). If they are spending that extra money it may just be Wilson Valdez.

 

But Ray is a career .279/.354/.789 OPS; Thats coming from a 2nd baseman. There is no reason not to be excited over the possibility of bringing him back, especially if its the Sox mainly adding payroll and not giving up a stud level prospect (ie Bmac, Tracey, Anderson, Sweeney).

 

In fact last year he hit .289 with 17 HR's (in 120 games) with a .364 OBP, and a .848 OPS

 

Hell just to throw it out there if the Sox wanted Rowand in the 2 hole they could put Durham in the 3 hole. But Durham/Spod or vice versa is a damn improvement over the previous top of the order in my opinion.

 

Get Ray here. Man I'd fall over in excitement if true. I doubt it though because of the payroll implications. My understanding was Ray always liked Chicago but I thought he was a little upset when he got dealt. Maybe those feelings are past him now. I think Ozzie be pretty familiar with him too.

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