Luis Castillo for 2B?

[beck72]

I wouldn't say he's a lock to hit .300.  He didnt last year.

 

My bad, .291. The nit picking police have caught me.

 

My point is, a player who can hit around .300 every yr at the top of the order is hard to come by. Esp. with the questions still surrounding Pods [will he hit closer to .300 or .244?], and Uribe [was his .284 avg the highest he'll hit or drop back?], the two guys the Sox must get good seasons from at the top. Having a veteran top of the order hitter who can hit near .300 in 2005, would make the sox much less of a question mark heading into the season.

[beck72]

Sounds like Delgado will choose between the fish and the mets. If the fish add a 4th yr, they should land him

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article.jsp?co...115_203920_4676

[beck72]

FWIW, a poster on the sox board [jiminusrex2, at least jiminusrex was OK, w/ a decent track record of being on the up and up] posted this about a possible Castillo trade. I know he has some association/ relationship with a local sports writer or two.

 

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp...sox&msg=36231.1

 

If a trade does come down, please speak highly of me.

[YASNY]

The whole time you've been selling this idea, I thought it was something that you had put together. Granted, it's a very good idea and the logistics make sense. Now hearing from another source, even one as skimpy as that thread, makes me a bit more hopeful that this gets done.

[beck72]

The whole time you've been selling this idea, I thought it was something that you had put together.  Granted, it's a very good idea and the logistics make sense.  Now hearing from another source, even one as skimpy as that thread, makes me a bit more hopeful that this gets done.

 

Sure my wife and kids might say I'm a little insane, but am I that whacked out?!

 

I'm just trying to think like KW and Ozzie

[YASNY]

Sure my wife and kids might say I'm a little insane, but am I that whacked out?! 

 

I'm just trying to think like KW and Ozzie

 

 

There was nothing whacked out about it. As I said, it was damn good idea and you put it together well. I didn't know KW had the same idea though.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Soriano just signed a 7.5M/1yr deal. That removes another option for 2B.

I am not giving up Marte's contract for Castillo's.

It's very simple. You have yet to convince me that Castillo will play a greater role in wins for the CWS in the next 3 yrs. The cost of adding Castillo is not just 16M/3. You have to add the cost to fill Marte's shoes as well.

 

I believe Marte had 59 appearances last yr w/out surrendering a run.

That's talent. Does Minn win the div with Castillo's or Romero's?

The answer is obvious: Romero. The CWS has had the weaker of the two BP's the last 4 yrs. This chance they have the opportunity to close that game. I'm not going to weaken that buy trading for a better bat.

 

Marte's contract is all in the CWS' favor: 4M/2yr or 10M/4yr.

[beck72]

Soriano just signed a 7.5M/1yr deal. That removes another option for 2B.

I am not giving up Marte's contract for Castillo's.

It's very simple.  You have yet to convince me that Castillo will play a greater role in wins for the CWS in the next 3 yrs.  The cost of adding Castillo is not just 16M/3.  You have to add the cost to fill Marte's shoes as well.

 

I believe Marte had 59 appearances last yr w/out surrendering a run.

That's talent.  Does Minn win the div with Castillo's or Romero's?

The answer is obvious: Romero. The CWS has had the weaker of the two BP's the last 4 yrs.  This chance they have the opportunity to close that game.  I'm not going to weaken that buy trading for a better bat.

 

Marte's contract is all in the CWS' favor: 4M/2yr or 10M/4yr.

 

You can like the trade suggestion or not. It seems you don't. Move on

[Chisoxmatt]

You can like the trade suggestion or not. It seems you don't. Move on

Damn straight!

 

I wish we didnt have to give up marte for this deal... they want a set up man though so i guess we would have to give them marte. I wouldnt be mad if we did this trade i'm just not convinced it would be worth it. i would be much more pleased with Iguchi because we wouldnt have to lose a key pitcher in the pen. Even though Iguchi is risky, i have heard enough to know that he is definitely an upgrade to harris.

[CWSGuy406]

Beck, I know I'm a little late here, but in your opinion, is Castillo - Harris - Marte >> than Iguchi (assuming we get a deal done) + Harris + Marte?

[CWSGuy406]

I could see Castillo leading vs LHP w/ Pods hitting 9th.

 

I think KW got the sense from fans yesterday he's on the right track. A deal for a .300 hitter would be icing on the cake, the final offseason move. Even at the expense of MArte. Let's face it, .300 hitters don't grow on trees. LHP's are easier to find then those type guys.

 

BTW, FA p/u Kevin walker also has to fit in somewhere. Interesting....

 

I disagree.

 

We complained last year that Marte didn't have a very good season, yet he still put up a sub-3.50 ERA. If Marte's worst year is 3.49, that's unbelievably good.

 

I won't say that Castillo is bad, because he isn't. But I feel that Iguchi/Harris + Marte >> Castillo - Marte.

 

Oh, one more thing. You're right, Walker has to fit in somewhere. At AAA Charlotte would be a good spot, if we plan on going for a division title and beyond, he isn't in our bullpen.

[CWSGuy406]

I could see Castillo leading vs LHP w/ Pods hitting 9th.

 

I think KW got the sense from fans yesterday he's on the right track. A deal for a .300 hitter would be icing on the cake, the final offseason move. Even at the expense of MArte. Let's face it, .300 hitters don't grow on trees. LHP's are easier to find then those type guys.

 

BTW, FA p/u Kevin walker also has to fit in somewhere. Interesting....

 

I disagree.

 

Last year, we complained about Marte having a bad season, yet he still gave us good innings out of the 'pen, and put up a sub-3.50 ERA. You say "LHP are easier to find", saying it like Marte is any ordinary LHP. There aren't many LHP's out of the bullpen who I'd take over Marte, and Marte is one of the better 'relievers' -- RHP included -- in all of baseball, IMHO.

 

Kevin Walker can fit somewhere -- at AAA, where he belongs. If we have aspirations of a World Series title, the only spot that Walker deserves is fourth on the depth chart behind Adkins, Diaz, and Munoz, as far as mop-up relievers...

[CWSGuy406]

PITCHING PITCHING PITCHING. Our bullpen is a strength right now. Vizcaino had a 3.75 ERA last year, he  could have well over 4 in the AL. How can he or Cotts easily replace Marte and his 2.5 ERA (except for last year). Marte IS our bullpen, and our bullpen sucks without Marte. I'd take Castillo to, but I'm not weakening my bullpen for someone with equal defensive talents to Willie Harris.

 

Ditto.

 

Many of you act as if Munoz/Cotts/Walker/Vizcaino will easily step in and take over Marte's job. Marte's worst year is about as good as Vizcaino's best year, and Munoz/Cotts/Walker can't even come within a full run of Marte's worst year.

 

EDIT: My bad for this whole string of posts, I really gotta get the quote feature down and start using that.

[JDsDirtySox]

I have been over posting on marlinsbaseball.com about the idea of them dealing Castillo if they sign Delgado... and the Marlins fans seem to think there is no way this will happen.

[qwerty]

I have been over posting on marlinsbaseball.com about the idea of them dealing Castillo if they sign Delgado... and the Marlins fans seem to think there is no way this will happen.

 

 

I have been reading over there also and what i get from them is there is no way in hell he will be dealt. Would you really feel good about easley being your starting second baseman? He is worse than willie harris.

[JDsDirtySox]

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...showtopic=37048

 

Here is the thread I started over there.

[Guest JimH]

Interesting and the conclusions may be accurate, but let's remember the Marlins or White Sox message board folks have zero influence over who the teams ultimately trade.

 

There are always behind the scenes issues we don't know about.

 

Note that Williams was awfully coy when asked about Iguchi, it was his perfect opportunity to come out and say "Willie is the 2B for 2005". He didn't.

 

Still lots of time in the offseason for scenarios to develop, involving Castillo or not.

[quickman]

Don't tell Quickman that about Munoz. 

 

The Sox can go three ways at the moment, by either signing Iguchi, trading for a Castillo or Durham, or standing pat with Willie Harris and Wilson Valdez. KW needs to ask himself what will be more important to the team, a second baseman who can bat 2nd in the order, hit for a high average with a good OBP and get some steals, or one of the best lefty relievers in the game who could get back to his 2002-2003 form and post a sub 2.00 ERA. I'd be for signing Iguchi and keeping Marte, and I would have even signed Cairo instead if he was still available, but we may yet see Marte dealt. But I don't think Munoz or Cotts will step up in 2005 and post great numbers that can replace Marte's output, not this season anyway.

 

 

By the way I wasn't arguing with you earlier. Beck seems to be all over this thing. Its almost like he is negotiating for all the teams

[WSFAN35]

I don't know why no one's talking about Polanco. The Phillies want to get rid of him. It doesn't look good for Iguchi, Castillo's trade would pend on the Marlins signing a big bopper, and I think that Polanco is a better choice than Durham.

[JUGGERNAUT]

I'm beginning to think it's going to be Igs. More because of the lack of what's being written than anything else. Everything to do w Igs in Jan is centered around the CWS. There appear to be no other suitors. If the CWS have a hard time flying under the radar I can't see any other team being able to do it. If the interest was still there we'd be reading about.

 

Likewise the lack of articles surrounding the CWS trading for Rollins, Polanco, Castillo, Durham, or signing Larkin lead me to believe that KW thinks Igs is going to break our way.

 

What we do know is a report broke that the CWS offered 10M/3yr just prior to the opening of Soxfest. That beats any offer Igs will get from Japan. My guess is that his agent is using that offer to see if he can get a better one from Japan right now. If they can't I see them joining the CWS.

It's the only thing that makes sense when you read the various reports.

[beck72]

I have been over posting on marlinsbaseball.com about the idea of them dealing Castillo if they sign Delgado... and the Marlins fans seem to think there is no way this will happen.

I've read their Delgado thread as well. They seem to think they can sign Delgado w/o giving up anyone. Sure some team will take Encarnacion [hurt] and his $4+ mill contract, or Conine and his $4 mill?!

 

Their lineup would be awesome w/ Castillo. And they are acting like school boys with a first crush, dreaming of having the best team in the NL. But realistically, they have to shed payroll to afford Delgado. Will the fish go from a $60 mill. payroll to a $73-75 mill payroll, all the while crying poor that they can't afford to pay $30 mill for a new stadium deal but can pay Delgado prob a 4 yr deal for $45 mill? Names like Burnett and Castillo have been tossed around as cost cutting moves for a reason--they can't afford to have it all.

[JUGGERNAUT]

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...20entry560820

Castillo is not that much of an upgrade over Harris v RH, & Graff v LH. Certainly not to the point where we should give up Marte & Harris to get him.

Castillo costs 16M/3, Graff+Harris costs 1.5/1, Marte costs 4M/2, 7M/3, 10M/4 all at the CWS discretion.

[beck72]

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...20entry560820

Castillo is not that much of an upgrade over Harris v RH, & Graff v LH.  Certainly not to the point where we should give up Marte & Harris to get him.

Castillo costs 16M/3, Graff+Harris costs 1.5/1, Marte costs 4M/2, 7M/3, 10M/4 all at the CWS discretion.

 

Numbers, stats and salaries aren't the only consideration for the sox in trying to upgrade the middle IF. For whatever reason the sox seem intent on getting a proven vet who has some intangibles Ozzie and KW want. Seeing how Vizquel was the Sox #1 target, if the Sox get a chance to acquire a player similar to him, I think they'd do it. [Esp for a salary near what they were going to pay Vizquel--$5 mill] Castillo is very much like Vizquel, in terms of what he could offer the sox on the field and off.

 

But this is all speculation by us fans. We'll see how it all pans out. No need to make this into a doctoral thesis

[JUGGERNAUT]

Comparing Vizquel to Castillo is ridiculous. Vizquel has ranked in the top 30 list of offensive AL players many times. Castillo hasn't even cracked top 40 once in the NL.

 

Now if you're comparing Vizquel at his present age to Castillo's potential

I guess that's reasonable. But Vizquel was a GG at SS & not 2B. That's worth a bit more. Plus the CWS were not willing to go about 4M/yr.

So that's an extra 4M/3yr they would be spending on Castillo.

[JUGGERNAUT]

How about Vizc+Harris+1M for Castillo? The Marlins still get a 2B, a solid NL RP, & 1M to cover his cost. Maybe throw in a PTBNL as well.