Lee trade completed.

[GoodAsGould]

im going to ask again who plays 1B for the Barons next year this dude or rogo... i know rogo played some OF last year but id assume 1st is his natural position and if he has the most upside and with Konerko possibly gone after this year id really like to see him play some 1st.

[Rex Hudler]

im going to ask again who plays 1B for the Barons next year this dude or rogo... i know rogo played some OF last year but id assume 1st is his natural position and if he has the most upside and with Konerko possibly gone after this year id really like to see him play some 1st.

 

Who knows? Could be a combination of the two.

 

The bottom line is this no more than a filler acquisition as Cerb mentioned. The Sox got the Brewers 3rd best 1B prospect. He never played a full season until last year. He had to have played some OF because he got enough AB's in 2002 (269) and 2003 (372) playing behind Brad Nelson and Prince Fielder.

 

He will go from hitting with power in a great hitter's park to hitting in one of the worst hitter's parks in minor leagues.

 

Fair comparisons: Brian Becker, Aaron McNeal and Daylan Holt

 

Remember Holt was acquired from the A's for his power potential and last all of one week in AA before being sent back to Winston-Salem, never to return to AA. This guy will likely last longer in AA (if he makes it there out of ST) but I'd say the comparison could be made. If he plays a full season in Birmingham, expect something like:

 

.255 with 15 HR and 66 RBI.

[chisox2334]

from mil site

Hinton Sent To White Sox To Complete Lee Deal

 

-- Bill Batterman

Featured Player: Carlos Lee

Bio / Stats: [ link ]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The final piece of the Brewers' highest-profile off-season trade fell into place on Monday when Milwaukee sent minor league first-baseman Travis Hinton to the White Sox as the Player-To-Be-Named-Later in the teams' December 13th deal. Hinton joins center-fielder Scott Podsednik and reliever Luis Vizcaino in a package that netted the Brewers outfielder and much-needed right-handed slugger Carlos Lee.

 

The 24-year-old Hinton has spent his entire professional career with Milwaukee. A 13th-round selection in the 2001 June Amateur Draft out of Chandler-Gilbert Community College, the Phoenix-native enjoyed his finest season in 2004 with the High Desert Mavericks of the High-A California League. After posting OPSes of 657 and 649 in 2002 and 2003 at Low-A Beloit, Hinton earned California League All-Star Honors by hitting .302 with 22 homers and 88 RBI in 137 games with the Mavericks. His .360 on-base average and .507 slugging average were both career-highs.

 

Defensively, Hinton played exclusively at first-base in 2004 and committed 19 errors in 131 games. The left-handed hitter has bounced between the corner outfield and first-base during his time with the Brewers in an attempt to get his bat in the lineup. His best position, however, probably remains designated hitter.

 

Hinton was rated the Brewers' 35th-best prospect in the latest edition of Toby Harrmann's Brewerfan.net Power 50. He debuted at #44 in February of 2002 and peaked during September of 2004 at #33. Blocked by a number of talented Brewers' prospects at both first-base and in the outfield, the fresh start in Chicago will undoubtedly improve Hinton's chances of making The Show.

[Texsox]

We could always use a power hitting DH. I hope he's slow.

 

What is really surprising is why it took almost a month to decide? Imagine what this gene pool must have looked like.

Edited January 11, 2005 by Texsox

[Chisoxfn]

Not a big fan of a 24 year old 1st baseman still in A ball, but then again I'm a Rogowski fan so who knows if this guy is any good. Sounds like he has some offensive ability but god is he brutal defensively.

 

I do agree that Prince has slowed his development. He's gotta be better then Brandon Bounds.

[GoodAsGould]

well next year he should start for the Barons and thats where we find out if he is the real deal... put up good power numbers there and your good enuf to me regardless if he is 24 or 25 or 26... late bloomers are ok with me they have more respect for the game when they get there chance.

[CWSGuy406]

OK..who should they have got instead?  

 

It's still a salary dump.

 

The purpose of the trade wasn't solely talent for talent -- rather, it was talent for some talent but mainly to clear money to make more moves.

 

As to who they could have gotten instead -- you've got to believe that there was a better offer than Podsednik + Vizcaino for Lee. I mean, Vizcaino is a very nice reliever, but he's no centerpiece, and Podsednik has really only had one good season.

 

If they wanted to clear up room for payroll, and still make the same moves such as adding Pierzynski & Hernandez, I would have traded Konerko for Julio & Hairston from Baltimore (not a great deal, but clearing up money is the main point in the deal). In making this deal, you get your leadoff hitter in Hairston/Harris platoon -- as well as solidifying the bullpen.

 

Then, you go out and get El Duque, and Pierzynski -- in this situation, one would assume you'd be confident, or semi-confident, in every position on the whole team -- the bullpen is improved with Julio and Hermanson, the rotation is improved with El Duque, and you still get your offensive additions in Hairston, Pierzynski, and Dye -- you lose Konerko, but keep Lee (the better all-around player), and you live with Gload at first, getting a platoon player if he proves unable to handle lefties.

 

This is all speculation, but I believe that this situation would have left us with a better team today. JMHO.

 

EDIT: This situation above has no bearing on what the team should have done, because as Jim and Beck have stated numerous times, this organization clearly isn't happy with Harris, and clearly wouldn't give him the chance to leadoff (even as part of a platoon).

[Chisoxfn]

well next year he should start for the Barons and thats where we find out if he is the real deal... put up good power numbers there and your good enuf to me regardless if he is 24 or 25 or 26... late bloomers are ok with me they have more respect for the game when they get there chance.

Thats the dillema. Obviously ROgo will be in Bham, but he may be playing outfield now or at least there is a good shot at that. Still I wonder how many at bats he'll get. I'm guessing he'll be nothing more then roster fodder for the minors, but you never know.

[GoodAsGould]

well im guessing the games with a DH rogo will play 1st and this dude will play DH and than other than that rogo will play in the OF...... heh come to think about it the Barons OF could be a glimpse to the future for us if its sweeney, anderson, and rogo.....

 

here is an even more interesting thought... assuming Crede sucks this year can you imagine our opening 2006 team with Josh Fields, Brian Anderson, Rogowski, and B-Mac all on it.. thats a lot of rookies and hey les assume Uribe gets injured and add in Pedro Lopez

[Carlo Paz]

The White Sox acquired minor-league first baseman Travis Hinton Monday from the Milwaukee Brewers as the player to be named in the Carlos Lee trade.

 

Hinton, 24, led Class A High Desert (California League) in almost every offensive category in 2004, batting .302 with 36 doubles, 22 home runs, 88 RBI and 80 runs scored in 137 games.

 

(from the Trib online)

 

ooops....already posted. How to delete?

[Goober]

no way

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28433

[AngelasDaddy0427]

24 and still at high A...

I find it hard to believe KW couldn't of found better...

[JUGGERNAUT]

It's a well known fact that Lee's value was high enough to fetch a #1 or #2 pitcher for the CWS. This was written up by Gammons himself.

 

Think about that in terms of what we got for him. As someone said above Lee's value was higher than that of Koney's. So if this was a salary dump why not Koney over Lee? Look at all our 2B options we are discussing now. Any one of those players would have been thrown in with a relief pitcher & a PTBNL for Lee. That was likely the starting price for Lee.

[Rowand44]

It's a well known fact that Lee's value was high enough to fetch a #1 or #2 pitcher for the CWS.  This was written up by Gammons himself. 

 

Think about that in terms of what we got for him.  As someone said above Lee's value was higher than that of Koney's.  So if this was a salary dump why not Koney over Lee? Look at all our 2B options we are discussing now.  Any one of those players would have been thrown in with a relief pitcher & a PTBNL for Lee. That was likely the starting price for Lee.

First off consider your source for that one. Second, I think the main reason Kenny traded carlos over koney was that carlos fell out of favor with Ozzie.

[YASNY]

First off consider your source for that one.  Second, I think the main reason Kenny traded carlos over koney was that carlos fell out of favor with Ozzie.

 

 

I think Carlos fell out of favor with KW.

[Rowand44]

I think Carlos fell out of favor with KW.

It was probably both of them, I don't think Ozzie cared for Carlos's approach at the plate but I could be wrong.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

Yes it's obvious that we got hosed in the Lee deal and we could have gotten so much more for him.

But thinking about it makes my head hurt. So I just perfer to smile and ignore it.

Edited January 11, 2005 by Jeckle2000

[CWSGuy406]

It was probably both of them, I don't think Ozzie cared for Carlos's approach at the plate but I could be wrong.

 

That's stupid.

 

Grr... The stubborness of some people absolutely piss me off so much! (Not you Rowand or Yasny, talking about Ozzie a bit here).

 

Didn't Konerko strike out more than Lee? Gosh, did he make himself into such a complete player -- power, plate discipline, contact, and defense -- he improved himself in every year at one point in time with the Sox.

 

And all we got was a journeyman CFer with one good season, and a solid reliever. A little frustrating, but as they say, life goes on...

[qwerty]

That's stupid.

 

Grr... The stubborness of some people absolutely piss me off so much! (Not you Rowand or Yasny, talking about Ozzie a bit here).

 

Didn't Konerko strike out more than Lee?  Gosh, did he make himself into such a complete player -- power, plate discipline, contact, and defense -- he improved himself in every year at one point in time with the Sox.

 

And all we got was a journeyman CFer with one good season, and a solid reliever.  A little frustrating, but as they say, life goes on...

 

I feel your pain, i really do.

[sox-r-us]

We're in agreement.

 

I think.

 

I don't think there's anything at all flawed about looking at it as Lee for those 5 players.  In fact, that was the reasoning behind my post.

 

As for Cerbaho...     settle down champ.

 

Here is the flaw in looking at this deal as CLee for those 5 players and saying this was a great deal for the Sox.

 

Yes, I agree that Clee for those 5 players is great, assuming the Sox payroll was going to stay the same. BUT those who criticize the Lee deal with Milwaukee can say why didn't Kenny get, say for the sake of argument, someone else from another team for CLee that had the same salary as the players we got from Milwaukee. Hence, then we would still have the remainig players on the team (AJ, El Duque etc) BUT also have someone better than Pod and Vizcaino.

 

Now the flip side of this argument of course is that maybe Kenny COULD NOT find any other team's players at the salary he got Pod and Vuizcaino at and at the positions he wanted and the type of players he wanted (i.e speed and grinder at OF like Pod).

 

No one will ever know whether Clee could have been traded for some other OF and relief pitcher from some other team at the same salary, but those who criticize this trade have a point in that maybe there was a better combo of players possible for someone like Lee at the same salary.

[YASNY]

And maybe there wasn't an acceptable combo of players/salaries available. As for Lee's falling out of favor, I think it goes way beyond his approach at the plate. Like him "hating everyone" and failing to move in the outfield when directed to by the coaching staff.

[LDF]

i am a big advocate of overtrading to pick up what imo would be a missing part to take the team to the next level.

 

with that in mind, i am not too sure if this might be one of those trades for kw to make or just merely another trade in which he,kw was taken to the bank. kw has a history of overtrading that i am in constant fear when i hear of a trade being made or is rumored to make.

 

i am not a kw supporter and i might never be one, so again i am asking, is this the best that he could have done??? for pete sake kw didn't even bring in a quality ptbnl. come on, mil has a really nice system to get someone in the lower level, or was this a trade of paying back some of the favors that bud did for the sox????

[SkokieSox]

Man some of you guys complain. We have a leadoff hitter who clearly has the ability to disrupt pitchers on the base paths, we now have a complete bull pen, and amongst other holes now filled because of the money saved. Face it people, Lee was a good player, but he didn't fit the new mold they're trying to build. He did fall out of favor with Ozzie and KW. It's nice to have fond memories and all, but the team is clearly better than last year, enough said.

[LDF]

Man some of you guys complain. We have a leadoff hitter who clearly has the ability to disrupt pitchers on the base paths, we now have a complete bull pen, and amongst other holes now filled because of the money saved. Face it people, Lee was a good player, but he didn't fit the new mold they're trying to build. He did fall out of favor with Ozzie and KW. It's nice to have fond memories and all, but the team is clearly better than last year, enough said.

 

i was never a clee fan, lets get that straight. i on the thinking that anyone is tradeable for the right price.

 

we have a speedster with a low avg and a middle of the road rp. which pods is coming to the sox, the rookie of the yr or the one who played last yr???

 

so you don't mind trading people as long as we save money???? do you not think clee is worth more than we got from mil?

[DBAHO]

i was never a clee fan, lets get that straight. i on the thinking that anyone is tradeable for the right price.

 

we have a speedster with a low avg and a middle of the road rp. which pods is coming to the sox, the rookie of the yr or the one who played last yr???

 

so you don't mind trading people as long as we save money???? do you not think clee is worth more than we got from mil?

Add A.J and El Duque onto that list. KW obviously didn't make the deal for those 2 players alone, otherwise it would have fallen into the Jim Bowden and Brian Sabean territory of bone headed moves this off-season.