southsideirish71 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 17, 2005 -> 11:31 AM) Ozzie exact words were that the player went into second base "like his wife was playing SS. So we got rid of his butt." Whats the over/under on a brawl with another AL Central team(the twinks) this year. I dont think we will bean people. But I feel that their middle infielders should clear the deck. With all of the trash talking over the years this has the makings of a brawl. I dont preach violence(unless its a video game) but nothing drew that team together in 2000 like that detroit tiger brawl. I think that really brought the team together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehard chisox 1427 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I cannot agree more about that 2000 Tigers fight. That fight was the turning point of the season for the Sox and I will never forget that. --Remember Magglio's dropkick.... ....now I want to dropkick Maggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDsDirtySox Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I can't stand how these "stories" come out after a player leaves the team. From Carlos and Maggs leaving here, to AJ leaving the Giants, and so on... why can't we just move on. Carlos gave us a lot of good time here, why do we have to bring up negatives to try and justify moving him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jan 17, 2005 -> 11:35 AM) after signing AJP. (Interestingly, in the Hunter-Burke game, John Rooney mentioned that the Twins were very glad to lose AJP.) For the rest of this offseason, anytime Sox management announces how important character is, it's just bs. I'm glad you've met aj and know what kind of guy he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I sorta have that game burned in my memory, unfortunately. Rowand did go in pretty hard in the 8th inning but it wasn't a bang-bang play at 2B, so he didn't have a chance to roll the guy at 2nd. Lee did not go in hard at all in the 9th but as I recall it was the same sort of situation, meaning he wasn't close to the 2B at the force out. I really didn't think too much of it. As some on this board may remember, I was much more livid that Mike Jackson didn't plunk Hunter in the 9th inning. Don't care to rehash the whole right/wrong debate, just mentioning that's how I felt (feel) about it. SS25K is dead on here though ... get players on the team that'll play the aggressive style consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 17, 2005 -> 11:29 AM) Yup, he talked about that nothing gets accomplished talking about it through the media, he also mentioned freddy's retaliation problem was that was a couple months later. As for Carlos I don't recall that exact play ozzie is thinking of and carlos always seemed to be someone that went into 2nd hard, very surprising to me. I did learn something interesting about AJ. He grew up in the same neighborhood as Hawk. Hawk knows his whole family and has been talking to AJ personally for years. He has watched AJ play since he was 15 in HS. As a matter of a fact Hawk tried to get the Sox to draft AJ over Mark Johnson. He also has talked to him about the incident in SF and explained it in detail. I feel much better about AJ after listening to AJ talk, and to knowing his connections to this organization. He really has some incentive to be a model citizen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 17, 2005 -> 05:40 PM) I'm glad you've met aj and know what kind of guy he is. Please. Like this is just me. If you don't think there's a lot of evidence that AJ's a jerk (like Rooney's quip, like multiple teammates calling him out in the paper), then you're living under a rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 17, 2005 -> 11:42 AM) I sorta have that game burned in my memory, unfortunately. Rowand did go in pretty hard in the 8th inning but it wasn't a bang-bang play at 2B, so he didn't have a chance to roll the guy at 2nd. Lee did not go in hard at all in the 9th but as I recall it was the same sort of situation, meaning he wasn't close to the 2B at the force out. I really didn't think too much of it. As some on this board may remember, I was much more livid that Mike Jackson didn't plunk Hunter in the 9th inning. Don't care to rehash the whole right/wrong debate, just mentioning that's how I felt (feel) about it. SS25K is dead on here though ... get players on the team that'll play the aggressive style consistently. If Jackson attempted to hit Hunter, Torrii probably would have hit a homerun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 17, 2005 -> 12:44 PM) If Jackson attempted to hit Hunter, Torrii probably would have hit a homerun I won't miss that guy. Cotts would have had some sick numbers if it weren't for MJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I did learn something interesting about AJ. He grew up in the same neighborhood as Hawk. Hawk knows his whole family and has been talking to AJ personally for years. He has watched AJ play since he was 15 in HS. As a matter of a fact Hawk tried to get the Sox to draft AJ over Mark Johnson. He also has talked to him about the incident in SF and explained it in detail. I feel much better about AJ after listening to AJ talk, and to knowing his connections to this organization. He really has some incentive to be a model citizen. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, interesting stuff. Goes to show there's a lot behind the scenes we fans don't know about. It will be up to AJP to prove himself. Sox did this one right, sign him for one year but have control of him through 2006 due to arbitration. The onus is on AJ. No doubt about it though, Hawk loves him. Hawk used to compliment AJP all the time on the broadcasts, and it was clear he meant he wanted guys like AJP on the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoelessinva Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I don't care why he was "shipped." I'm just glad he's gone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 17, 2005 -> 11:43 AM) I did learn something interesting about AJ. He grew up in the same neighborhood as Hawk. Hawk knows his whole family and has been talking to AJ personally for years. He has watched AJ play since he was 15 in HS. As a matter of a fact Hawk tried to get the Sox to draft AJ over Mark Johnson. He also has talked to him about the incident in SF and explained it in detail. I feel much better about AJ after listening to AJ talk, and to knowing his connections to this organization. He really has some incentive to be a model citizen. Exactly 2k5, what Hawk said about the cards incident makes a ton of sense to me, I could easily see something like that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 the real question i have would running into the 2B/SS or whatevr really of sent back a message... i mean the 2B/SS didnt do anything the guy that plowed Burke over was Hunter therefore if anyone is going to get hit back it should be Hunter... baseball is the most individual team sport and the guy at 2B/SS had nothing at all to do with what Hunter did to Burke. What im trying to say is retaliation is good but not on an innocent person hit the guy that did the crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 For the record -- There was no double play. It would seem that Carlos broke it up. http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...t=.jsp&c_id=cws (click the gameday link to get PBP) Bottom 9th B:2 S:1 O:0 Carlos Lee singles on a pop up to second baseman Luis Rivas. Bottom 9th B:1 S:0 O:1 Carl Everett flies out to center fielder Torii Hunter. Bottom 9th B:3 S:2 O:2 Paul Konerko grounds into a force out, third baseman Corey Koskie to second baseman Luis Rivas. Carlos Lee out at 2nd. Paul Konerko to 1st. Just another excuse. Just like SF leaking a story about AJ hitting a trainer in the groin... it's all just stupid :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jan 17, 2005 -> 11:44 AM) Please. Like this is just me. If you don't think there's a lot of evidence that AJ's a jerk (like Rooney's quip, like multiple teammates calling him out in the paper), then you're living under a rock. Were you at soxfest?? Like southsider said I think you'd feel much better about aj as a person if you were there. I'm not going to say he's the nicest guy in the world but he's not a clubhouse cancer either, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 If Jackson attempted to hit Hunter, Torrii probably would have hit a homerun <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sox handled that whole situation better than I would have. They let Jackson get his 1000th appearance and I believe let him pass one other guy on the all time list (Gossage?) who had 1005 ... and cut him afterwards. If it's me, his ass would've been cut a lot sooner. But ... water under the bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 17, 2005 -> 11:49 AM) Sox handled that whole situation better than I would have. They let Jackson get his 1000th appearance and I believe let him pass one other guy on the all time list (Gossage?) who had 1005 ... and cut him afterwards. If it's me, his ass would've been cut a lot sooner. But ... water under the bridge. Jim, I think all of us wanted him gone before that apperance but like you said that's all over now and we don't have to put up with thriller for another year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Btw, in the postgame interview, Ozzie said that HE would take responsibility for responding if he thought it was dirty. "When I'm gonna hit somebody, I'll make the call... If I thought the play was dirty...I will send a message." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 17, 2005 -> 11:49 AM) Sox handled that whole situation better than I would have. They let Jackson get his 1000th appearance and I believe let him pass one other guy on the all time list (Gossage?) who had 1005 ... and cut him afterwards. If it's me, his ass would've been cut a lot sooner. But ... water under the bridge. I wanted Jackson cut back during the Philly series when he let them come back. Jackson hitting Torii would of been funny. Nothing like the mean spirited beaning of a guy who barely can outgas a high school pitcher. Now that we have Bobby Jenks. Well now we have something. 100 mph from a guy who is a few screws loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I guess it's only a matter of time then before Ozzie ships Frank Thomas out once he returns if this story is correct. I have a hard time believing that this was THE reason CLee was dealt. If it was though, someone should school Ozzie on when retaliation should be dealt out..... like during the SAME GAME..... not a week or two later. And then don't defend Torii's "..... hard, aggressive style of play" if you think it calls for retaliation later. Hard and aggressive is just that..... and always clean. And clean doesn't call for retaliation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I guess it's only a matter of time then before Ozzie ships Frank Thomas out once he returns if this story is correct. I have a hard time believing that this was THE reason CLee was dealt. If it was though, someone should school Ozzie on when retaliation should be dealt out..... like during the SAME GAME..... not a week or two later. And then don't defend Torii's "..... hard, aggressive style of play" if you think it calls for retaliation later. Hard and aggressive is just that..... and always clean. And clean doesn't call for retaliation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agree on the "same game". Hard/aggressive/clean = semantics. If they had a problem with it at any level, do exactly the same thing in return, and use the same semantics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 17, 2005 -> 05:48 PM) Were you at soxfest?? Like southsider said I think you'd feel much better about aj as a person if you were there. I'm not going to say he's the nicest guy in the world but he's not a clubhouse cancer either, imo. No, but I wouldn't count that as meeting him even if I had. AJ has always, always said the right things publicly. I just can't imagine how SF could have reacted in such an extreme way, or where these stories are coming from, if AJP hadn't really crossed the line. Anyway, let's not have this argument in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 QUOTE(diehard chisox 1427 @ Jan 17, 2005 -> 11:33 AM) I think it's funny how Ozzie is basically blaming the season on Carlos when all Carlos did was put up .305/31/99. The Sox would have not been in a situation like that if we had a 5th starter, or if Crede batted .275 or Valentin. Blaming the season on one play in one game by one player is ridiculous. By the way, I was very pissed that the sox did NOT retaliate. Torrie Hunters hit on Burke changed the momentum of the season for the Twins, however if we did hit one of their batters, was momentum coming back to us? Doubt it. Bill How is talking about ONE specific play blaming Carlos for the entire dismal season..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 17, 2005 -> 05:42 PM) I sorta have that game burned in my memory, unfortunately. Rowand did go in pretty hard in the 8th inning but it wasn't a bang-bang play at 2B, so he didn't have a chance to roll the guy at 2nd. Lee did not go in hard at all in the 9th but as I recall it was the same sort of situation, meaning he wasn't close to the 2B at the force out. I really didn't think too much of it. As some on this board may remember, I was much more livid that Mike Jackson didn't plunk Hunter in the 9th inning. Don't care to rehash the whole right/wrong debate, just mentioning that's how I felt (feel) about it. SS25K is dead on here though ... get players on the team that'll play the aggressive style consistently. Jim, you usually remember the games pretty well, and are always honest on things. So, I ask you this -- wasn't Carlos Lee, along with Aaron Rowand, one of the guys who went hardest into 2B, in your opinion? Maybe it's just my remembering incorrectly, but I always remember Carlos going into second real, real hard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 QUOTE(Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jan 17, 2005 -> 10:11 AM) This is combined from Monday's Tribune and Southtown: When fans at Soxfest brought up the Torii Hunter play, Guillen said the Sox had a chance to retaliate about 2 weeks later, when a Sox player hit a ground ball with a runner on first during a gave vs. Twins. "This guy went into second like his wife was trying to turn a double play. That's why we kicked his butt out of here." The Southtown says "While Guillen didn't name the player, speculation was that he likely was referring to Carlos Lee." The Tribune says Guillen was "referring to former Sox left fielder Carlos Lee, who was forced at second in the ninth inning. Guillen added that the Sox had "shipped" out the player." I just wanted to address this one more time ... Complaining about a play where Carlos "didn't slide hard enough", yet still got the job done, (There was no Double play, and with Pauly behind him, we know that's saying something) is idiotic. That would be the equivilent of hitting a HR, and Ozzie complaining that he should have hit it farther. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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