Planning Iran Invasion?

[KipWellsFan]

courtesy cbc.ca

 

Last Updated Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:47:07 EST

 

CBC News

 

NEW YORK - American investigative journalist Seymour Hersh says U.S. commandos have been inside Iran for at least six months looking for evidence to support an attack.

 

Hersh, who exposed the extent of prisoner abuse at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison, makes the allegations in Monday's edition of the New Yorker magazine. He says the special forces are looking for potential air strike targets, including nuclear sites and missile installations.

 

Iran has frozen its uranium enrichment program, but has not agreed to shut it down. The United States insists Iran is trying to make nuclear weapons. Iran maintains it's only interested in generating electricity.

 

Speaking on CNN's Late Edition on Sunday, Hersh said the Bush administration has "extensive" plans for an attack on Iran. The forces are hunting for evidence of weapons in order to avoid what happened in Iraq, he says.

 

U.S. forces and weapons inspectors have failed to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, U.S. President George W. Bush's chief argument for that military campaign.

 

Hersh says "neoconservatives" within the Bush administration, including Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, deputy defence secretary Paul Wolfowitz and undersecretary of defence Doug Feith, are pushing to attack Iran.

 

They believe an attack will prompt an Iranian uprising against the country's hardline religious leaders, he said.

 

His sources, Hersh says, are insiders who hope that publicizing the information will force the administration to drop their plans.

 

White House communications director Dan Bartlett describes the report as "riddled with inaccuracies."

 

more detailed article http://edition.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/01...iran/index.html

[FlaSoxxJim]

I think Bush never got the Risk boardgame he wanted for Christmas as a kid, and now he's making up for it. Seymor Hersh rocks. He's the big reason we now know Albert Gonzales is really more about wiping his ass with conventions that protect human rights than worrying about upholding them.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

If this is true then Bush is truely either insane or a moron.

We aren't even totally done in Afganistan, we are still losing soldiers every day in Iraq, and now he wants to go off and pick himself an even bigger war.

Someone needs to show George some history books, what happens to leaders that think they are destined by God for victory.

[soxman352000]

A two front war is plenty, we don't need to invade Iran too. We got a big enough mess in Iraq and Afganistan

[Scwible]

Wow, if this happen, here we come Military draft.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Wow, if this happen, here we come Military draft.

 

 

The most we'd ever do to Iran at this point is bomb their nuke sites. I think Bush has enough common sense to realize that we are in no position to invade anymore countries.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I think Bush has enough common sense to realize that we are in no position to invade anymore countries.

 

I rest my case.

[KipWellsFan]

I rest my case.

 

double

[PoohIss]

Is there oil in Iran?

[Rex Kickass]

Yes there is. But that's not the point.

 

That's the right swamp to drain.

 

Too bad we aren't capable at the moment.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Yes there is. But that's not the point.

 

That's the right swamp to drain.

 

Too bad we aren't capable at the moment.

 

 

That swamp can be drained with one night of air strikes. Aside from that they aren't much of a threat.

[southsider2k5]

So they are planning ahead just in case they need to attack Iran? Can I just say, duh? You don't think Iran has had thoughts of attacking a much weakened Iraq? And what if Iran does have nuclear capablity soon? Do you honestly think they would hesitiate to use it against their Zionist moral enemies in the US or Israel?

 

I know the article saids that people are pushing for this, but I don't buy it just based on common sense. There is no capability to attack Iran without letting Iraq collapse, and that ain't gonna happen. Plus the author goes out of his way to paste labels on the people he obviously doesn't like, so that kinda tells me his bias is in his eyes, which means the objectivity of the article is about zero. To me it looks like he is taking some obvious facts, and doing a Michael Moore job on them.

 

To me this article ranks up their with the conspiracy theorists who said that Bin Laden was captured and was going to show up before our elections and that the price of oil was going to plunge right before the election, both to assure Bush reelection.

[whitesoxmurph]

Good to see BMac got an invite .  Any idea who the other 8 players are?

The United States is constantly planning invasions of dozens of countries and much to the amazement of most naive Americans, we have Special Forces (Seals, Delta etc..) in place in many countries throughout the world, some with the permission of the host country and some without. In todays world we can't rely on the CIA, NSA & NRO for our intel, we have to have reliable HUMINT from people and troops on the ground. Iran would be a likely target for on the ground recon from U S Special Forces and does not necessarily mean that an attack or invasion is imminent

[EvilJester99]

Hell Bush should consider finishing the wars he is already involved in b4 starting more....JMO The War on Terror in Afghanistan and the War for Oil... ummm errr the War in Iraq.

[KipWellsFan]

Anyone else see something bizarre about whitesoxrumph's post?

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(KipWellsFan @ Jan 19, 2005 -> 10:39 PM)

Anyone else see something bizarre about whitesoxrumph's post?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah

 

I hope BMAC was invited to ST, not the military.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Anyone else see something bizarre about whitesoxrumph's post?

 

Bizarre and truthful. The US has committed tons of covert activities all over the world since World War II and even before then -- but a great book on these activities is "Killing Hope" by former State Department member William Blum.

[Controlled Chaos]

Espionage by any other name

Tony Blankley

 

January 19, 2005

 

This week in the New Yorker magazine, Seymour Hersh wrote the following words:

 

"The Administration has been conducting secret reconnaissance missions inside Iran ... Much of the focus is on accumulation of intelligence and targeting information on Iranian nuclear, chemical and missile sites. ... (The) American commando task force has been set up in South Asia and is now working closely with a group of Pakistani scientists and technicians who had dealt with Iranian counterparts ... The American task force ... .has been penetrating eastern Iran from Afghanistan in a hunt for underground installations ... The task force members, or their locally recruited agents, secreted remote detection devices ... "

 

Title 18 United States Code section 794, subsection (b.) prohibits anyone "in time of war, with intent that the same shall be communicated to the enemy [from publishing] any information with respect to the movement, numbers, or disposition of any of the Armed Forces ... of the United States ... or supposed plans or conduct of any ... military operations ... or any other information relating to the public defense, which might be useful to the enemy ... [this crime is punishable] by death or by imprisonment for any term of years or for life."

 

Subsection (a) of that statute prohibits anyone "with ... reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates ... to any representative, officer, agent, employee, subject or citizen thereof, either directly or indirectly, any information relating to the national defense, shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for any term of years or for life."

 

I am not an expert on these federal code sections, but a common sense reading of their language would suggest, at the least, that federal prosecutors should review the information disclosed by Mr. Hersh to determine whether or not his conduct falls within the proscribed conduct of the statute.

 

In the fairly recent past, at least one journalist writing for Jane's Publications has been successfully prosecuted under the statute, freedom of speech and the press not being a defense to espionage. Remember, in the famous Pentagon Papers case, the issue was prior restraint. Could the government stop a newspaper from publishing government secrets relating not to current operations but to prior planning? The answer then was no. But in the current matter of Seymour Hersh and the New Yorker, they have been free to publish the article. The question is whether or not any legal consequences attach to that decision.

 

I was shocked when I read Mr. Hersh's article. Note the tenses he uses to describe American military action: "The American commando task force ... is now working," "has been conducting secret reconnaissance." In other words, Mr. Hersh is revealing to all the world, including the Iranian government, that our commandos are currently behind enemy lines in Iran on a dangerous and vital military assignment.

 

Moreover, he helps the enemy by writing that our commandos have been "penetrating eastern Iran from Afghanistan." That considerably reduces the areas the Iranian military and counter-intelligence forces have to search and monitor to try to catch our brave commandos.

 

Furthermore, Mr. Hersh informs the world that our commandos are working with certain Pakistani scientists who had previously worked with Iranian scientists. Such information might further assist the Iranian security forces in their investigations. After all, there can't be that many Iranian nuclear scientists who worked with the few Pakistani nuclear scientists in the past. Mr. Hersh has virtually given Iranian intelligence the names (if not the addresses) of the Pakistani scientists who are working with our forces from their jumping off places in Pakistan.

 

Finally, Mr. Hersh helpfully writes that our commandos have been working with local Iranian agents to plant detection devices around known or suspected nuclear plants. This gives the enemy insights into our commandos' specific method of operation and alerts Iranian Intelligence to be looking for local Iranians as well as Americans.

 

Not a bad day's work for yet another patriotic American journalist.

 

Almost as appalling as the potentially lethal effect (if not, necessarily, the intent) of the Hersh article, is the quietude that greeted the damaging implications of the article's publication.

 

Whether or not the article meets the technical legal requirements for violation of the Espionage Act, I have seen no articles or public comments expressing concern at the revelation of such vital military secrets of an ongoing secret military operation. Keep in mind, the Pentagon has not denied the story, it has merely said that some of the facts are inaccurate. That is a classic Washington non-denial denial.

 

And this is not just any military operation. The purpose of this operation is to protect the world from a possible nuclear attack once the fanatical Iranian Islamist regime gets its hands on a nuclear bomb. They already have missiles capable of reaching London, Paris, Berlin and Tel Aviv. They are already the world's leading terrorist-supporting state. And our military's effort to prepare to deal with this extraordinary danger is exposed to the world -- while the operation is ongoing.

 

But not a peep of concern can be heard. Apparently, this is considered just journalistic business as usual. The Washington political class is suffering from a bad case of creeping normalcy. We are getting ever more used to ever more egregious government leaks of military secrets. What's the big deal? Maybe I am an alarmist. Or maybe we are sleep walking toward the abyss.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Hersh brought out the details of the My Lai Massacre. He got the ball rolling on the Abu Ghraib scandal and showed how widespread that is.

 

And the Iranian government may be crazy, but they're not stupid -- and if they wanted to get a dirty bomb into the US, it could be done and they've got the capabilities to do that.

 

Having the military all over the world using covert destabilization efforts etc. is not part of the American republic. The founders were explicit saying that the downfall of countries is binding alliances and meddling in foreign affairs with a country when we have not been attacked by them.

[Rex Kickass]

Tony Blankley is an assclown. When was the last time the US was in declared war? Oh yeah, 1945. We are not, legally, at war. Beyond that, what makes this any worse than exposing an undercover CIA agent. Oh wait, I remember - Hersh isn't a Republican. My bad.

 

 

Espionage by any other name

Tony Blankley

 

January 19, 2005

 

This week in the New Yorker magazine, Seymour Hersh wrote the following words:

 

"The Administration has been conducting secret reconnaissance missions inside Iran ... Much of the focus is on accumulation of intelligence and targeting information on Iranian nuclear, chemical and missile sites. ... (The) American commando task force has been set up in South Asia and is now working closely with a group of Pakistani scientists and technicians who had dealt with Iranian counterparts ... The American task force ... .has been penetrating eastern Iran from Afghanistan in a hunt for underground installations ... The task force members, or their locally recruited agents, secreted remote detection devices ... "

 

Title 18 United States Code section 794, subsection (b.) prohibits anyone "in time of war, with intent that the same shall be communicated to the enemy [from publishing] any information with respect to the movement, numbers, or disposition of any of the Armed Forces ... of the United States ...  or supposed plans or conduct of any ... military operations ... or any other information relating to the public defense, which might be useful to the enemy ... [this crime is punishable] by death or by imprisonment for any term of years or for life."

 

Subsection (a) of that statute prohibits anyone "with ... reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates ... to any representative, officer, agent, employee, subject or citizen thereof, either directly or indirectly, any information relating to the national defense, shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for any term of years or for life."

 

I am not an expert on these federal code sections, but a common sense reading of their language would suggest, at the least, that federal prosecutors should review the information disclosed by Mr. Hersh to determine whether or not his conduct falls within the proscribed conduct of the statute.

 

In the fairly recent past, at least one journalist writing for Jane's Publications has been successfully prosecuted under the statute, freedom of speech and the press not being a defense to espionage. Remember, in the famous Pentagon Papers case, the issue was prior restraint. Could the government stop a newspaper from publishing government secrets relating not to current operations but to prior planning? The answer then was no. But in the current matter of Seymour Hersh and the New Yorker, they have been free to publish the article. The question is whether or not any legal consequences attach to that decision.

 

I was shocked when I read Mr. Hersh's article. Note the tenses he uses to describe American military action: "The American commando task force ... is now working," "has been conducting secret reconnaissance." In other words, Mr. Hersh is revealing to all the world, including the Iranian government, that our commandos are currently behind enemy lines in Iran on a dangerous and vital military assignment.

 

Moreover, he helps the enemy by writing that our commandos have been "penetrating eastern Iran from Afghanistan." That considerably reduces the areas the Iranian military and counter-intelligence forces have to search and monitor to try to catch our brave commandos.

 

Furthermore, Mr. Hersh informs the world that our commandos are working with certain Pakistani scientists who had previously worked with Iranian scientists. Such information might further assist the Iranian security forces in their investigations. After all, there can't be that many Iranian nuclear scientists who worked with the few Pakistani nuclear scientists in the past. Mr. Hersh has virtually given Iranian intelligence the names (if not the addresses) of the Pakistani scientists who are working with our forces from their jumping off places in Pakistan.

 

Finally, Mr. Hersh helpfully writes that our commandos have been working with local Iranian agents to plant detection devices around known or suspected nuclear plants. This gives the enemy insights into our commandos' specific method of operation and alerts Iranian Intelligence to be looking for local Iranians as well as Americans.

 

Not a bad day's work for yet another patriotic American journalist.

 

Almost as appalling as the potentially lethal effect (if not, necessarily, the intent) of the Hersh article, is the quietude that greeted the damaging implications of the article's publication.

 

Whether or not the article meets the technical legal requirements for violation of the Espionage Act, I have seen no articles or public comments expressing concern at the revelation of such vital military secrets of an ongoing secret military operation. Keep in mind, the Pentagon has not denied the story, it has merely said that some of the facts are inaccurate. That is a classic Washington non-denial denial.

 

And this is not just any military operation. The purpose of this operation is to protect the world from a possible nuclear attack once the fanatical Iranian Islamist regime gets its hands on a nuclear bomb. They already have missiles capable of reaching London, Paris, Berlin and Tel Aviv. They are already the world's leading terrorist-supporting state. And our military's effort to prepare to deal with this extraordinary danger is exposed to the world -- while the operation is ongoing.

 

  But not a peep of concern can be heard. Apparently, this is considered just journalistic business as usual. The Washington political class is suffering from a bad case of creeping normalcy. We are getting ever more used to ever more egregious government leaks of military secrets. What's the big deal? Maybe I am an alarmist. Or maybe we are sleep walking toward the abyss.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

And the Iranian government may be crazy, but they're not stupid -- and if they wanted to get a dirty bomb into the US, it could be done and they've got the capabilities to do that.

 

 

 

 

If they're willing to try something like that then I'd say the weather forecast in Tehran, Bam, Kerman and several other cities would be calling for daytime highs in the 7000 degrees Celcius range with UV ratings off the charts.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

If they're willing to try something like that then I'd say the weather forecast in Tehran, Bam, Kerman and several other cities would be calling for daytime highs in the 7000 degrees Celcius range with UV ratings off the charts.

 

Correct -- they may be religiously insane (although I'd say not much more than the US religio-zealots) but they're not stupid enough to attempt to bomb the US with a dirty bomb etc. So covert military activities to take them down makes no sense. But the only reason we're dealing with that entire region is because they have all the batteries for all of our toys.

[Rex Kickass]

God that Tony Blankley column bothers me.

 

People do see that he's calling for an American journalist to be put to death because he pointed out that the Pentagon is circumventing the CIA to avoid Congressional oversight.

 

You do see that, right?

[Soxbadger]

As for Blankely, see first amendment. Unless he wants to prove that it falls in some public policy exception, you wont get very far with going after the press. Especially since he used, no names, and no real identifiable information. Just general information, which is generally not exempt from 1st amendment protection of the press.

 

Secondly, if you really think that an Iran will allow us to airstrike them, and then not do something about it, I would like to move to your dream world.

 

If Iran is attacked, expect Iran v Iraq II, except this time the millions of soldiers in the desert wont just be Iraqi's and Iranians, there will be a lot of Americans there too, especially since which side will Iraqi's fight on?

 

Even though Iran is their enemy, there is an old saying:

 

An enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

For futher information on this subject, please go to your local library and look up where Iraq got its weapons to fight Iran.

 

SB

[Controlled Chaos]

God that Tony Blankley column bothers me.

 

People do see that he's calling for an American journalist to be put to death because he pointed out that the Pentagon is circumventing the CIA to avoid Congressional oversight.

 

You do see that, right?

 

 

It doesn't bother me at all. However, if one American soldier performing his duty in Iran is caught or killed due to Hersch's need to spew conjecture...THEN I would have a problem.