Guest JimH Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Now it's pretty much Iguchi or bust. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Or trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jan 20, 2005 -> 12:59 AM) Willie isn't an everyday player because he can't hit lefties... Willie's 3-Year Average Splits: vs. Righties 580 At Bats .257 AVG .327 OBP vs. Lefties 129 At Bats .186 AVG .234 OBP Willie's 2004 Splits: vs. Righties 337 At Bats .279 AVG .366 OBP vs. Lefties 72 At Bats .181 AVG .224 OBP Willie's AVG and OBP versus righties is respectable. He just can't hit lefties at all. We need a right-handed 2nd baseman to at least platoon with Willie. Cairo would have been a decent choice but the Mets signed him. Now it's pretty much Iguchi or bust. I don't think 72 or 130 abs make a conclusive argument. Would you say a starter who had a bad month will never be able to hit? I'd love to see Willie's minor league splits vs lhp, b/c basically he's never been allowed to hit them in the ML. John Sickels wrote a complimentary piece on Harris when he was breaking in w/ the Sox, and he didn't say that Harris was incompetant vs lhp. (He also said "Scouts have nothing but praise for his intelligence, work ethic and baseball instincts. He plays 'above his tools.'" Fwiw.) Even if it proves he can't hit lefties for his life, you face so many more rhp that a .360 obp against righties will be valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jan 20, 2005 -> 03:17 AM) Even if it proves he can't hit lefties for his life, you face so many more rhp that a .360 obp against righties will be valuable. Especially considering that the .360 OBP will be coming from the nine spot in the order... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 19, 2005 -> 09:20 PM) Especially considering that the .360 OBP will be coming from the nine spot in the order... Which will probally be better than our lead-off hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider17 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jan 19, 2005 -> 06:15 PM) I'm not saying he isn't trying to get better. I just don't know if he WANTS to get better. Does he truly want it? Eh'...I've said my piece on Harris. You all know how I feel. I can see WANTING to do something but not TRYING to do it. But how do you TRY and do something and not WANT to do it? He went from the 84th pick (I believe) in the draft to the major leagues. It wasn't just on talent or he would have been picked alot higher. He definitely wants it and as you said he seems to be trying. I think for all the bravado he displays, he's still very unsure of himself. His act is just a front to cover that up. And you're not going to live up to any potential if you don't truly believe in yourself .... ESPECIALLY in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I agree with the splits. It's not a question of it being only 200 ab v LH but rather there is no sign of improvement. If we had his ml split numbers we'd be able to see if there was any hope there. But we don't. So based on what we do have, you can't seriously consider Harris an everyday player. Look at the LH in the ALC: Santana, Sabathia, Moroth, Robertson, Lee, May, & Anderson. Then add LH the Sox are sure to face at least once: Johson, Lilly, Zito, Hendrickson, Moyer, Rogers, & Redman. There are more quality LH arms in the AL than in the NL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jan 20, 2005 -> 04:24 PM) I agree with the splits. It's not a question of it being only 200 ab v LH but rather there is no sign of improvement. If we had his ml split numbers we'd be able to see if there was any hope there. But we don't. So based on what we do have, you can't seriously consider Harris an everyday player. Look at the LH in the ALC: Santana, Sabathia, Moroth, Robertson, Lee, May, & Anderson. Then add LH the Sox are sure to face at least once: Johson, Lilly, Zito, Hendrickson, Moyer, Rogers, & Redman. There are more quality LH arms in the AL than in the NL. Not true on "improvement". His splits against lhp in the 2nd half of last season were much better than his splits against lhp in the 1st half. So that would count as improvement, right? Problem is, you're still talking about only 70 abs total. He only has 130 or so in his career (not 200). That's not enough to make a fair judgement. Until he gets real, consistent playing time, I won't know what to think of Harris. But he seems to have good plate discipline, speed, and a good glove. I'm cautiously optimistic. (About his ability, anyway. Not sure if he'll get much playing time next year.) As for good lhp in the AL, I agree that there are a lot of them. But that doesn't change the fact that any regular in the ML will see at least twice as many pitches from rhp as lhp. The ability to hit rhp is still a valuable commodity. Anyway, suppose Willie isn't worth a lick against lefties. Then the White Sox should have known that and were pretty stupid to ever count on him to be the regular 2nd baseman. If that's the case, the Sox should stop acting like they're disappointed or surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 WH v LH: Not enough to go on? 2001 2ab .000 .000 .000 .000 2002 38ab .237A .293O .237 .530 2003 19ab .105A .150O .105 .255 2004 72ab .181A .224O .264 .488 Some minor league notes: http://www.orioleshangout.com/minors02/Willie_Harris01.htm vs ml LH: 192ab 302A, 333ab 306A So what happened? Team splits might give us a clue: vs. ANA 32AB .375A .412O .438S - good vs. ATL 11AB .091A .286O .091S - bad vs. BAL 18AB .333A .400O .389S - good vs. BOS 19AB .211A .250O .211S - bad vs. CHC 18AB .111A .158O .111S - bad vs. CLE 35AB .286A .359O .314S - good vs. DET 47AB .149A .226O .255S - bad vs. KAN 43AB .326A .383O .465S - good vs. MIN 30AB .200A .400O .200S - can hit Lohse but no other vs. NYY 28AB .179A .250O .250S - bad vs. OAK 15AB .133A .278O .200S - bad vs. SEA 22AB .318A .400O .455S - good vs. TAM 24AB .375A .400O .458S - good vs. TEX 29AB .276A .364O .310S - good vs. TOR 17AB .588A .600O .647S - good It looks like Harris can hit weak pitching real well but strong pitching real bad. That's yet another sign he is not an everyday player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Juggernaut, I just do not think 1 season is enough to say that he will not be an every day player. Look at Konerko's stats from 1998, in 350 ab's he hit around .210, 11 hr, and had 70 ks compared to 26 bbs. The next year he hit .298 Unlike most Sox fans, I think Willie can be a legitimate starter, and perhaps in a few years be a quality player. From what I have seen, he works the counts well, tries to see as many pitches as possible, and tries to get the bat on the ball instead of trying to swing for power, extra bases. With more confidence and better consistent playing time, I think you will see Willie at around .270-.280 range. Which is not terrible considering he is an above average fielder, has good speed, and will be batting 9th. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jan 20, 2005 -> 07:31 PM) WH v LH: Not enough to go on? 2001 2ab .000 .000 .000 .000 2002 38ab .237A .293O .237 .530 2003 19ab .105A .150O .105 .255 2004 72ab .181A .224O .264 .488 Some minor league notes: http://www.orioleshangout.com/minors02/Willie_Harris01.htm vs ml LH: 192ab 302A, 333ab 306A So what happened? Team splits might give us a clue: vs. ANA 32AB .375A .412O .438S - good vs. ATL 11AB .091A .286O .091S - bad vs. BAL 18AB .333A .400O .389S - good vs. BOS 19AB .211A .250O .211S - bad vs. CHC 18AB .111A .158O .111S - bad vs. CLE 35AB .286A .359O .314S - good vs. DET 47AB .149A .226O .255S - bad vs. KAN 43AB .326A .383O .465S - good vs. MIN 30AB .200A .400O .200S - can hit Lohse but no other vs. NYY 28AB .179A .250O .250S - bad vs. OAK 15AB .133A .278O .200S - bad vs. SEA 22AB .318A .400O .455S - good vs. TAM 24AB .375A .400O .458S - good vs. TEX 29AB .276A .364O .310S - good vs. TOR 17AB .588A .600O .647S - good It looks like Harris can hit weak pitching real well but strong pitching real bad. That's yet another sign he is not an everyday player. Absolutely, not enough in the ML to go on. 30 abs is roughly the equivalent of one week's work for a ML starter, not much. Actually, the minor league notes say "Hits left-handers as well as right-handers", which is a very good sign. These make me a little more optimistic. (Thanks for posting this, btw, I've been looking for something like this for a while.) The splits vs teams last year, I don't make much of those. That looks like normal variation, especially for someone who didn't bat very often. The conclusion you make, I don't see that. Detroit had an awful rotation, and he didn't do anything against them. Cleveland had a pretty good rotation, and he hit the Indians. Imo, these numbers just aren't very meaningful. 10, 20 abs is precious little information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChWRoCk2 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 nobodys giving willie any credit, :headshake , in the games he was hitting he would start a good streak of hits and he did very well, all he really needs to do is get more consistent when playing on an everyday basis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jan 20, 2005 -> 07:31 PM) WH v LH: Not enough to go on? 2001 2ab .000 .000 .000 .000 2002 38ab .237A .293O .237 .530 2003 19ab .105A .150O .105 .255 2004 72ab .181A .224O .264 .488 Juggernaut -- do you even read what other people post, or do you just respond aimlessly with a variety of stats? Hayes said that judging a guy on less than 200 AB's in a certain category is pointless, because it's too much of a sample size. Let me see here -- 2 + 38 + 19 + 72 = 131, correct? I mean, come on... Sorry if I sound like an ass, but it's kind of like Hayes is going around in circles with you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jan 19, 2005 -> 06:22 PM) I agree completely, he needs to play well the whole season, not just the first half and the meaningless games at the end. Bulls***! Uribe's Monthly Batting Average April: .393 May: .303 June: .222 July: .123 (didn't get 60 AB's though) August: .289 September: .353 October: .333 (only 6 AB's, shouldn't really count) He batted AT LEAST .289 for over two-thirds of the season. If all of our players did that, we would've won more games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 The racist part of this argument is gone. No one was making a racist statement in any way shape or form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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