Castillo for 2B?-Part 2

[beck72]

The question fans have to ask is why haven't the Sox improved up the middle, even if it's just to get an experienced backup UTL IFer? Even if the plan was to have Harris start [i'm more willing than others to give Harris the benefit of the doubt, that he'll improve on his 2004--but the sox sure don't seem set w/ him], the sox would still need a vet up the middle. Going with two young guys up the middle, w/ a young backup in Valdez, doesn't make sense. Esp seeing that Cora signed w/ Clev. to be a UTL guy at SS and 2B. The Sox must have some deal in the works to bring in an even better option than Cora or Cairo. With no upgrades over Cora via free agency, a trade is the only route for improving this spot.

 

People know I've speculated that the Marlins could deal Luis Castillo if they signed Carlos Delgado, based on the Miami Herald quote of a Marlins insider. Since that was back on Jan. 9th, and the Sox have seen "back up" plans for 2b sign with other teams [Cora, Cairo, even Robbie Alomar], would the sox "wait it out" just on the chance Delgado signs w/ the Fish? Maybe. The Sox could trade for a bench player w/o giving up much talent. But KW doesn't usually operate by waiting weeks for other teams to make a deal

 

But if Delgado didn't sign w/ the Fish, could a deal still be made between them and the sox for Castillo? Probably. The Marlins biggest need is a LH power bat. While they have an opening at 1B, they could also use a LFer. Conine could play 1B like he did for 57 games last yr. No big LH bats are either LF'ers or 1B in free agency

 

Could a contingency deal be in the works between the Sox and Fish, if the fish don't land Delgado, to get them a LH bat? Maybe a deal along the lines of Carl Everett, Neal Cotts and Harris for Castillo and a prospect. the Sox would still have Bochard as the LH power, and Cotts would be the sweetener as Castillo is locked up for a few yrs, and Everett is gone after 2005

 

The Sox sitting on the sidelines while other teams fill holes doesn't fit the 2004 offseason MO. If not Castillo, the Sox should have something lineup to get a vet for the sox middle IF.

[beck72]

Found this little tidbit from FLA's team Pres. Could be a hint that even if Delgado is signed a "front line player" might not need to be moved just for salary purposes. Yet i've talked before about how Easley replacing Castillo's bat helps improve FLA's SLG and power, and they could make a case that adding a bullpen arm could improve the club as well. [Of course no team will come out and say they made a move for strictly a salary dump] Interesting though

 

From today's Sun-Sentinel:

 

Marlins won't break budget

 

By Juan C. Rodriguez

Staff Writer

Posted January 21 2005

 

They can lure him with the promise of abundant RBI opportunities. They can entice him with their proximity to his native Puerto Rico. What the Marlins can't and won't do to sign Carlos Delgado is lapse into fiscal insanity.

 

If the division-rival Mets torpedo the Marlins' three-year, $35 million bid, they'll settle for exchanging pleasantries with Delgado from across the diamond. Delgado and David Sloane, his Coral Springs-based agent, had a three-hour meeting Thursday with Mets officials in Puerto Rico. Today, the Rangers will make their pitch.

 

Sloane met with the Marlins on Tuesday before joining Delgado in Puerto Rico. The Marlins did not increase their offer during that session. The Marlins believe it will come down to them and the Mets.

 

If outbid, the Marlins won't find a way to make up financial ground.

 

"We're going to do only what makes sense," said team president David Samson, during an interview Thursday with Evan Cohen on ESPN Radio 760 (WEFL-AM) in West Palm Beach. "If Carlos Delgado requires so much money that it would require us to trade another player, another front-line player, just to have him then we just rob Peter to pay Paul. We're not going to do that."

 

Samson went on to say: "The Marlins are not in the business of overpaying. The worst thing you can do as a franchise is have under-performing contracts, and we won't do it. So if it becomes an overpay, the Marlins will bow out gracefully and we will see the Mets on the field 19 times, and we'll look forward to saying hello to Carlos then."

[GreatScott82]

I think that article pretty much dampers any chance of aquirering Castillo. It looks like they are going to go with Willie Harris after all. It just doesn't make sense to me that our utility infielder is going to be a young player like Valdez. If KW doesn't aquire a starting 2B, than he for sure needs to acquire a veteran utitlity man.

[beck72]

I think that article pretty much dampers any chance of aquirering Castillo. It looks like they are going to go with Willie Harris after all. It just doesn't make sense to me that our utility infielder is going to be a young player like Valdez. If KW doesn't aquire a starting 2B, than he for sure needs to acquire a veteran utitlity man.

 

the question is why would the sox let veteran UTL guys go [cora, cairo, etc] if they didn't have someone in mind for either 2b or UTL? The need is there. The players via FA aren't.

[S720]

the question is why would the sox let veteran UTL guys go [cora, cairo, etc] if they didn't have someone in mind for either 2b or UTL? The need is there. The players via FA aren't.

 

Iguchi. The Sox is waiting for Iguchi to come to them!

[beck72]

Iguchi.  The Sox is waiting for Iguchi to come to them!

 

Iguchi is one option, I agree. But letting him go over a few hundred thousand dollars, w/o having a fall back option would be ridiculous. The sox should also have an option for a deal with someone at least Iguchi's equal, and better than the guys they let sign elsewhere [cora, Cairo]. Taking such a hardball stance w/ Iguchi doesn't make sense unless they were also looking at a guy like Castillo, durham or Polanco via trade

[YASNY]

Iguchi is one option, I agree. But letting him go over a few hundred thousand dollars, w/o having a fall back option would be ridiculous. The sox should also have an option for a deal with someone at least Iguchi's equal, and better than the guys they let sign elsewhere [cora, Cairo]. Taking such a hardball stance w/ Iguchi doesn't make sense unless they were also looking at a guy like Castillo, durham or Polanco via trade

 

I'm totally unsure about Iguchi .... KW called him an "impact player" a couple of weeks ago. But then, I've seen it expressed that some of the "all-stars" that went to Japan expressed some doubt his ability to catch up with a major league fastball. Yet, his salary plus Marte's compared to just Castillo's sounds pretty good, and we'd still have Harris as insurance. I'm thinking Iguchi may be the way KW chooses to go.

[santo=dorf]

I'm sick of seeing us forced to give up players in order to fill our holes. KW described Iguchi as "an impact" player. Look at Castillo's contract:

2005: 5.33 million

2006: 5.33 million

2007: 5.25 million team option.

 

Why should we f*** with our own payroll constraints for the next 2-3 years while we're giving up a guy like Damaso Marte?

 

I'll pass

[beck72]

I'm totally unsure about Iguchi .... KW called him an "impact player" a couple of weeks ago.  But then, I've seen it expressed that some of the "all-stars" that went to Japan expressed some doubt his ability to catch up with a major league fastball.  Yet, his salary plus Marte's compared to just Castillo's sounds pretty good, and we'd still have Harris as insurance.  I'm thinking Iguchi may be the way KW chooses to go.

 

I'm also unsure about Iguchi. And I think the Sox are too. No way would they wait 2, 3 weeks over a few dollars if they thought he was a sure thing. [that no one from the sox saw him in person may have something to do with that]. From the Sox negotiating stance, Iguchi seems like the fall back option. With no other teams publicly interested, the sox could look at possible improvements that offer more upside than Iguchi.

 

Harris is up in the air but I doubt he'll be the starter by opening day. At worst, Willie could be a guy off the bench if they did find an improvement. Or included in a deal.

[beck72]

I'm sick of seeing us forced to give up players in order to fill our holes.  KW described Iguchi as "an impact" player.  Look at Castillo's contract:

2005: 5.33 million

2006: 5.33 million

2007: 5.25 million team option.

 

Why should we f*** with our own payroll constraints for the next 2-3 years while we're giving up a guy like Damaso Marte?

 

I'll pass

 

Marte hasn't been mentioned in this thread.

[AnthraxFan93]

I'm sick of seeing us forced to give up players in order to fill our holes.  KW described Iguchi as "an impact" player.  Look at Castillo's contract:

2005: 5.33 million

2006: 5.33 million

2007: 5.25 million team option.

 

Why should we f*** with our own payroll constraints for the next 2-3 years while we're giving up a guy like Damaso Marte?

 

I'll pass

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You have to give up something to get something.. and know KW we would give up allot more than that.. but I still do it, top 3 2b you get to play for your team.. NO why would anyone want that? :banghead

[Flash Tizzle]

Could a contingency deal be in the works between the Sox and Fish, if the fish don't land Delgado, to get them a LH bat? Maybe a deal along the lines of Carl Everett, Neal Cotts and Harris for Castillo and a prospect. the Sox would still have Bochard as the LH power, and Cotts would be the sweetener as Castillo is locked up for a few yrs, and Everett is gone after 2005

 

I wouldn't object trading Everett/Cotts/Harris for Castillo/Prospect if the prospect was mid-level, and Big Hurt's health wasn't in question. As it stands, a lineup without Everett (and Frank) is substantially weakened. Does Castillo replacing Harris compensate for Everett's loss? I know you can't possibly have faith in Borchard substituting as our teams LH power bat.

 

In addition, I'd hesitate trading Cotts; whom may be transitiong to rotation spot in 06' (definitely 07). Without Contreras/El Duque/Buehrle(?) in 2007, it'd be ideal to fill out 4th/5th starter's position with McCarthy/Cotts. I know it's far ahead, but in today's inflated market two starters who may combine for less than 1.5 million is worth noting.

[AddisonStSox]

That's far too steep a price for Castillo.

 

If, in fact, the Marlins are in as dire a situation as you would like us to believe, the goal is to get Castillo at a bargin, not through overpaying.

 

Jurassic will be a contributor in 2005.

 

Cotts will be a contributor in 2005, 2006, and beyond.

 

With the new contract proposal from the Iguchi camp, I think whatever chances Castillo had of coming to the Southside and quickly fading.

[WilliamTell]

I don't mind not getting Castillo. I think Iguchi would be the right addition

[ChWRoCk2]

Iguchi.  The Sox is waiting for Iguchi to come to them!

lets hope so

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 10:49 AM)

Marte hasn't been mentioned in this thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well his name has been tossed around the most with these total speculation Castillo trade threads.

 

Whom should we give to the Marlins for him, and why would the Marlins want these players?

[beck72]

I wouldn't object trading Everett/Cotts/Harris for Castillo/Prospect if the prospect was mid-level, and Big Hurt's health wasn't in question.  As it stands, a lineup without Everett (and Frank) is substantially weakened. Does Castillo replacing Harris compensate for Everett's loss? I know you can't possibly have faith in Borchard substituting as our teams LH power bat. 

 

In addition, I'd hesitate trading Cotts; whom may be transitiong to rotation spot in 06' (definitely 07).  Without Contreras/El Duque/Buehrle(?) in 2007, it'd be ideal to fill out 4th/5th starter's position with McCarthy/Cotts.  I know it's far ahead, but in today's inflated market two starters who may combine for less than 1.5 million is worth noting.

 

I just don't know where Everett plays/ gets AB's once Frank comes back. He's an everyday player. Having him as a part time bench player/ Pinch hitter doesn't make sense.

 

At least Borchard can play more than one position in the OF, like Timo. Is Joe an everyday player? No. could he be a good 4th, 5th OFer? Probably.

 

Cotts and Harris both have value, but could be used to get someone who'll be around for a few years

[beck72]

Well his name has been tossed around the most with these total speculation Castillo trade threads.

 

Whom should we give to the Marlins for him, and why would the Marlins want these players?

 

I think I answered those questions on the first page

[beck72]

That's far too steep a price for Castillo. 

 

If, in fact, the Marlins are in as dire a situation as you would like us to believe, the goal is to get Castillo at a bargin, not through overpaying.

 

Jurassic will be a contributor in 2005.

 

Cotts will be a contributor in 2005, 2006, and beyond.

 

With the new contract proposal from the Iguchi camp, I think whatever chances Castillo had of coming to the Southside and quickly fading.

 

I like both Everett and Cotts. Just Carl doesn't seem to have an everyday spot. If he could be used to fill the spot at 2b, why not.

 

Iguchi seems like the Sox' fall back option. But he's still a question mark where the sox have a few up the middle already, and in the #2 hole. But I still think the sox are looking to upgrade more than Iguchi, as Iguchi has been around for a while sitting there for the sox to sign.

[AddisonStSox]

Iguchi seems like the Sox' fall back option. But he's still a question mark where the sox have a few up the middle already, and in the #2 hole. But I still think the sox are looking to upgrade more than Iguchi, as Iguchi has been around for a while sitting there for the sox to sign.

 

I disagree 100%.

 

Kenny knows something we don't. Cora was there for the taking, as was Cairo; neither of which are on the White Sox. Kenny hasn't shown any interest in trading for the 2b of the future. None. Zero.

 

The 2b should come via free agency; no ifs, ands, or buts about it. This team is ready to rock and should not rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

EDIT: Iguchi is not a fall back option. He's the main target and the only guy the Sox organization has talked about for the MI since missing on Vizquel.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 12:39 PM)

I think I answered those questions on the first page

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry Beck, I scrolled too quicklly and thought your second post was the first post of the thread.

 

Carl Everett, Neal Cotts and Harris for Castillo and a prospect

 

I don't think the Marlins will do that, and we'd be dumping more power, a switch hitter (we need lefties too,) a couple of young players whom have showed signs of being quality major leaguers for an overpaid singles hitter and a prospect?

 

No thanks.

 

Why should the Sox strap themselves with yet another large contract for the next 2-3 years?

[JoshPR]

I don't mind not getting Castillo. I think Iguchi would be the right addition

 

 

I will take Castillo over Iguchi THANK YOU VERY MUCH

[beck72]

I disagree 100%.

 

Kenny knows something we don't.  Cora was there for the taking, as was Cairo; neither of which are on the White Sox.  Kenny hasn't shown any interest in trading for the 2b of the future.  None.  Zero.

 

The 2b should come via free agency; no ifs, ands, or buts about it.  This team is ready to rock and should not rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

EDIT: Iguchi is not a fall back option.  He's the main target and the only guy the Sox organization has talked about for the MI since missing on Vizquel.

 

If Iguchi was the #1 target, the sox wouldn't haggle w/ him for over a month for a few 1000K. Could be KW "flying under the radar" on the trade front. Few FA's are left better than willie. But many via trade

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 04:15 PM)

If Iguchi was the #1 target, the sox wouldn't haggle w/ him for over a month for a few 1000K. Could be KW "flying under the radar" on the trade front. Few FA's are left better than willie. But many via trade

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Beck, Levine said that earlier report of the Sox being $600,000 apart from Icughi was BS. His agent was looking for "Matsui" money the entire time, but now he might have to settle for "Matt Suey" money.

[whitesox91403]

but now he might have to settle for "Matt Suey" money. 

 

 

Not only is your Avatar the best I have ever seen, but that is one of the best comments I have ever seen as well.