Buehrle>Wood Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 It would be an utterly pointless move if we were to do so, I'll pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Oh my god. Nelson, a perenial big-game pitcher and one-time All Star, or Neil Cotts/Jon Adkins. Tough call. Don't formulate others' arguments for them. A healthy Nelson>>>Cotts and Adkins. As much as I like Cotts, he needs one more year in minors to develop another pitch. Something to chew on... Per Yahoo "Pitching for the New York Yankees from 1996-2000, Jeff help the team win four World Series titles by going 1-0 with a 2.25 ERA in 13 World Series games. Jeff had a 0.00 ERA in the 1996, 1998 and 1999 World Series, throwing a combined 9.1 innings in 10 games." Nah, I don't want that experience. EDIT: Let's make this painfully clear. This isn't a post CALLING for the signing of Jeff Nelson, or EXPECTING the signing of Jeff Nelson. Kenny has done a tremendous job with the pen this off-season and can stand pat. However, a pitcher of Nelson's calibur is never a bad thing. As I said in post #1, this is simply a guy Kenny should "look into." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> understanding baseball and the roles of relief pitchers would be a start for you. Long reliever vs set up guys should be a subject you should study, because you cant compare the two. So comparing cotts to nelson has no relevance. Secondly, the world series that you listed were 9, 7, and 6 years ago respectively. Now he is 38 with arm troubles. Im sure that there are many older pitchers who were good years and years ago, but in this case, that point has no validity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Nelson is done, stick a fork in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 QUOTE(babybearhater @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 03:37 PM) understanding baseball and the roles of relief pitchers would be a start for you. Long reliever vs set up guys should be a subject you should study, because you cant compare the two. So comparing cotts to nelson has no relevance. This makes no sense to me. So pitching when you are either down or up by several runs is as hard as trying to keep the game within a run either way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 08:36 PM) Nelson would be okay. But whats the latest with Urbina? When did Conan show A-Row and KW on his screen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jan 22, 2005 -> 12:35 AM) When did Conan show A-Row and KW on his screen? That's Ozzie and Kenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 If I remember correctly, we always made him look like a Hall of Fame pitcher, we could never touch him. I always liked him and would welcome him here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 QUOTE(JoshPR @ Jan 22, 2005 -> 02:08 AM) That's Ozzie and Kenny s*** man, thought it was A-row...upon closer inspection you're definitely correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 This makes no sense to me. So pitching when you are either down or up by several runs is as hard as trying to keep the game within a run either way? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you saying that long relievers are the same as set-up guys?? They throw more innings, have a different mentality and generally do alot more than just pitch one inning to get ready for the closer. They eat up innings for the bullpen and the starters, and a staff cannot be without one. If you got rid of a long reliever for a set-up guy you would lose alot of attributes that a successful staff needs, and vice versa for getting rid of a set up guy for a long reliever. It has nothing to do with how many runs you are up or down. In fact long relief can come in at any score if you are confident in them. But set up guys will generally pitch no more than an inning, and sometimes not even a full inning. Because that is their role. That is why you cant compare our staff's long relievers (cotts, adkins) with the set up role. If you want to compare who we would get ride of to make room for Nelson, it would be either hermanson or polite, not cotts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jan 22, 2005 -> 02:22 AM) s*** man, thought it was A-row...upon closer inspection you're definitely correct. that still leaves the question when did conan show KW and Ozzie i would of wanted to see that. :banghead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 QUOTE(babybearhater @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 08:43 PM) Are you saying that long relievers are the same as set-up guys?? They throw more innings, have a different mentality and generally do alot more than just pitch one inning to get ready for the closer. They eat up innings for the bullpen and the starters, and a staff cannot be without one. If you got rid of a long reliever for a set-up guy you would lose alot of attributes that a successful staff needs, and vice versa for getting rid of a set up guy for a long reliever. It has nothing to do with how many runs you are up or down. In fact long relief can come in at any score if you are confident in them. But set up guys will generally pitch no more than an inning, and sometimes not even a full inning. Because that is their role. That is why you cant compare our staff's long relievers (cotts, adkins) with the set up role. If you want to compare who we would get ride of to make room for Nelson, it would be either hermanson or polite, not cotts I don't know if you knew this, but Jeff Nelson has been a long reliever, Hermanson is a long relief candidate as well. So by letting Cotts go to the minors to learn another pitch and stretch his innings as a starter, and having a much better pitcher in his place on the major league is a bad idea? You've gotta be kidding me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted January 22, 2005 Author Share Posted January 22, 2005 QUOTE(WSFAN35 @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 10:41 PM) I don't know if you knew this, but Jeff Nelson has been a long reliever, Hermanson is a long relief candidate as well. So by letting Cotts go to the minors to learn another pitch and stretch his innings as a starter, and having a much better pitcher in his place on the major league is a bad idea? You've gotta be kidding me. No...No...see, he said it. Which makes it correct. Nelson has both set up and pitched long relief in his career. Allowing Cotts to go to the minors and allowing a veteran pitcher take the mound would be detremental to this ballclub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jan 22, 2005 -> 06:04 AM) No...No...see, he said it. Which makes it correct. Nelson has both set up and pitched long relief in his career. Allowing Cotts to go to the minors and allowing a veteran pitcher take the mound would be detremental to this ballclub. I understand what you're saying, But Cotts can't go to the Minors cause we got no other Lefty. I think Kenny is looking at Vizcaino's Numbers to get lefties out too. Which IMHO is kinda stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted January 22, 2005 Author Share Posted January 22, 2005 QUOTE(JoshPR @ Jan 22, 2005 -> 12:13 AM) I understand what you're saying, But Cotts can't go to the Minors cause we got no other Lefty. I think Kenny is looking at Vizcaino's Numbers to get lefties out too. Which IMHO is kinda stupid Yes. You're right. Cotts isn't going anywhere. I don't even know if he should go anywhere. But, I do know this: Nelson wouldn't be detremental to our bullpen. A healthy Nelson would give the Sox one of the strongest pens in recent memory. I'm 98% sure Kenny is done with the bullpen; however, when I saw Nelson might sign for a minor league deal, sirens went off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Cotts needs to go to the minors for a full year and work on another pitch. He can't get lefties out anyway. Vizcaino will be a better left-handed specialist than him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox05 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Lets go sell bone chips from our elbow on EBAY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 No...No...see, he said it. Which makes it correct. Nelson has both set up and pitched long relief in his career. Allowing Cotts to go to the minors and allowing a veteran pitcher take the mound would be detremental to this ballclub. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Once again, it is not what he HAS done before in his career, he hasnt thrown long relief since 97, that was 8 years ago, when he was 30. It doesnt matter what he USED to be, he is done now. And Hermanson is better and so is polite. So there is no way he would improve our bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Cotts needs to go to the minors for a full year and work on another pitch. He can't get lefties out anyway. Vizcaino will be a better left-handed specialist than him. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He's not a lefty specialist, he is a long reliever, damaso and vizcaino will be concentrating on lefties. So it really doesnt matter. And I believe that you were one of the people who are willing to give garland a chance, why not cotts, who has only 2 seasons under his belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 QUOTE(babybearhater @ Jan 22, 2005 -> 07:50 PM) He's not a lefty specialist, he is a long reliever, damaso and vizcaino will be concentrating on lefties. So it really doesnt matter. And I believe that you were one of the people who are willing to give garland a chance, why not cotts, who has only 2 seasons under his belt. But he's not a very good one at that, 4-4 with a 5.65 ERA are hardly inspiring numbers. His situation right now reminds me a little of Johan Santana's a couple of seasons ago. His changeup is his best pitch, but his fastball is only in the low 90's, and he leaves too many balls up in the strike zone. Give him a season in AAA to work on another pitch, a slider, and he'll be able to setup his changeup to strike out hitters, which is exactly how Santana had so much success last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 QUOTE(babybearhater @ Jan 22, 2005 -> 02:50 AM) He's not a lefty specialist, he is a long reliever, damaso and vizcaino will be concentrating on lefties. So it really doesnt matter. And I believe that you were one of the people who are willing to give garland a chance, why not cotts, who has only 2 seasons under his belt. If cotts is are long reliever i would rather have adkins up and cotts to work on his pitches in the minors. Also, i have little faith in garland improving, not a big fan of his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 QUOTE(babybearhater @ Jan 22, 2005 -> 02:48 AM) Once again, it is not what he HAS done before in his career, he hasnt thrown long relief since 97, that was 8 years ago, when he was 30. It doesnt matter what he USED to be, he is done now. And Hermanson is better and so is polite. So there is no way he would improve our bullpen. How does adding someone better not improve our bullpen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Nelson isn't coming here. We really have only 1 roster spot to fill and that's for a 2B or SS (i.e. Iguchi). If we sign Iguchi, our opening day roster will be set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jan 22, 2005 -> 10:39 AM) Nelson isn't coming here. We really have only 1 roster spot to fill and that's for a 2B or SS (i.e. Iguchi). If we sign Iguchi, our opening day roster will be set. We're not arguing about whether or not he's coming here, which he probably won't. We're arguing about whether or not he'd be a good pickup. But thank you for repeating what's already been posted in this thread a million times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabroni Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 We're not arguing about whether or not he's coming here, which he probably won't. We're arguing about whether or not he'd be a good pickup. But thank you for repeating what's already been posted in this thread a million times. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're welcome. Just remember that it wasn't me who started this pointless thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jan 22, 2005 -> 11:45 AM) You're welcome. Just remember that it wasn't me who started this pointless thread. You just make pointless posts, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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