Steff Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 12:01 PM) Steff, Okay I was told by some one who knows Walker... Which would make sense as Ozzie is the most vocal hater of Harris, so I would suspect all in his camp dislike Harris. Where as Walker was pre-Guillen. SB BJ and Sidney told me the day we got him that he was crapola.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Santo, No clue, I have no idea who the people are that tab the stats so it could just be that ESPN or MLB are off. Also, Pods actually became more of a ground ball hitter last year, despite what the press keeps saying. 2003: 204 148 1.38 2004: 243 167 1.46 I doubt that you see much of a change, its already pretty high. Harris is just an extreme ground ball hitter, thats why I thought it was amusing when some one said he popped up to much. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 06:07 PM) Do you think that kind of rep might keep certain talented players, who are not bad seeds, away from signing here also? not if we pay them- Anyone will come here if we pay them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Jimh, If the manager says Willie is not performing, and that same manager performed exactly the same way, you have to wonder if it is personal, as opposed to real criticism. SB <{POST_SNAPBACK}> SB, Ozzie's job is to get the best out of his players, sometimes that means criticism. If every manager in baseball history had their playing record held to light to base whether player criticism is valid or personal ... you wouldn't have any managers. He's got every right to criticize Harris. Guillen was told all the good things Harris could do, Harris did not live up to the teams expectations. Same with Crede. It is usually easier to replace a 2B vs. a 3B but the Sox must see something in Crede but not Harris. This is all hearsay. The only fact here is the Sox went to the ends of the earth to find a new 2B. To me, that says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 they are talking about harris right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 reading cowleys article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Steff, I do not doubt there are plenty of people that dislike Harris. The problem though is that do you judge a person on whether certain people can get along with him or not? Teams said Everrett was a bad seed, and other teams said he was not. That is the problem when you are relying on what people percieve and what they think of a person, many different factors are taken into account and you can not really judge objectively who is in the right. Maybe Harris got off to a bad start in Baltimore over something personal, we do not know. I mean there have been days where Ive just not been in a good mood, been a dick, etc, and people have not liked me for the rest of my life over that. There are other people who have seen that same behavior and thought nothing of it. The White Sox should be in the business of winning baseball games, and unless they can find a suitable back up for 2b, Harris should not be traded. If they trade Harris over personal vendettas etc, it will lead to problems. There is just far to much risk in Iguchi. Atleast for my taste, and if we seriosly want to be contenders. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 must have been sport shorts. they spent 20 seconds on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Jimh, I guess im in the minority of people who think that perhaps Ozzie should share in some of the blame. Ozzie was the manager, he could of just forced Harris to steal more... He could of put Harris in positions to succeed instead of positions to fail, and so on and so forth. Managers should critique their players, but usually the most good is done behind closed doors, and not to the public. When you do it in public it hurts the players value, as well as their self-esteem becaues they feel that the coach does not care enough about them to talk to them 1 on 1. Ozzie may think Harris is the worst player ever, but while Harris is on the White Sox, Ozzie's only concern should be: "How do I get the most out of Harris so that we can win games." SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 SB.. I'll just say this and you can take it how you wish.. Willie did some inappropriate things in the clubhouse. That's why he is on the s*** list. This isn't about having a bad day. It's about treating your teammates like s*** and disrespecting your employer. His behavior was the same in Baltimore.. the Sox gave him a chance. Didn't work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 this is already out of hand, I still don't know why this is a big deal. he is a two bit player, not a superstar. He is fringe at best. Who the hell cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 12:03 PM) Jimh, If the manager says Willie is not performing, and that same manager performed exactly the same way, you have to wonder if it is personal, as opposed to real criticism. ::shrugs:: I also specifically state in my post, I would be relying on hearsay, therefore instead of getting into a hearsay argument, I would rely on facts. SB What's not hearsay is the White Sox took the rest of their available funds and used it on a guy to take Harris' spot. They did not do this to placate Ozzie. They did it to be a better team. If the organization besides Ozzie was happy with him and thought he was a capable everyday player, this move would not have been made. Actions always speak louder than words. They spent money to replace him. Money Harris would have to have at least 2 real good years to get to, so obviously he is not very highly thought of by the organization as a whole. He's an ass, plain and simple. Sometimes its worth the trouble to have to deal with an ass, but with the production Harris provides, its obviously not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 06:18 PM) SB.. I'll just say this and you can take it how you wish.. Willie did some inappropriate things in the clubhouse. That's why he is on the s*** list. This isn't about having a bad day. It's about treating your teammates like s*** and disrespecting your employer. His behavior was the same in Baltimore.. the Sox gave him a chance. Didn't work out. Did he sleep with sandburgs wife? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(quickman @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 12:23 PM) Did he sleep with sandburgs wife? Why not most everyone else did right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(quickman @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 12:23 PM) Did he sleep with sandburgs wife? Frank's wife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 06:25 PM) Frank's wife my wife met Franks wife on several occasions through some Oak brook connections, she said she was the worst woman she ever met. Doubt if he slept with her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Jimh, You can look at the Iguchi signing in a completely different perspective: Last year many compared Iguchi with Kaz Matsui, The Sox were able to get Iguchi at a fraction of the cost of Matsui. They have already shown that they want to break into the Japanese marketplace, and Japanese fans have shown a desire to watch MLB. If you visit Tokyo, along with Japanese high lights, they dedicate segments to Ichiro, Matusi, Shingo, etc. For $2mil a year, the White Sox were able to take another stab into what potentially could be one of the biggest marketplaces for MLB. You are talking millions of people who potentially may be interested in Iguchi and Shingo White Sox paraphanelia. Many companys pay way more than $2mil to try and break into a market, I bet there are US companys who have paid upwards of $100s of millions to get into the Japanese marketplace. The White Sox have been able to do it signing Shingo and Iguchi, for less than $10mil between them. Not a bad investment even if you do not look at the baseball aspect. Not to mention that Iguchi is supposed to be oustanding, so the White Sox could potentially be looking at a great player and getting to sign him for relatively cheap because he is unknown. Also there was no one else out on the market who could potentially put up the production of Iguchi at 2mil. I mean had there been a 2mil SS or 3b, we may very well of signed them. Just happened that the best player being posted by Japan was a 2b. Steff, I cant comment on what I do not know. I just do not believe the media or the press in regards to pretty much anything. You probably have more knowledge on the subject than I, and I never have doubted that there is not something personally wrong with Harris that is preventing him from being on the Sox. But as an objective fan I can only look at the stats and what I have seen with my own eyes. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 12:25 PM) Frank's wife No.. she's already taken by a former Sox infielder.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Another thing to consider is what will Willie's attitude be like if he is beaten out for the job and has to ride the bench yet again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 No one better say Harris is worse than Clayton. That just is a line I dont think we can cross. Losmedia, I have no problem trading Harris once Iguchi plays a few ST games and we see what we have. Just trading before Iguchi even swings a bat seems like invading Russia in the winter. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 12:33 PM) Another thing to consider is what will Willie's attitude be like if he is beaten out for the job and has to ride the bench yet again? Ever see "Problem Child"..? Remember the red headed beast..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 06:32 PM) No.. she's already taken by a former Sox infielder.. whoa, a PM from you is necessary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Well, then it's been a problem for way too long. QUOTE(Steff @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 06:40 PM) Ever see "Problem Child"..? Remember the red headed beast..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 06:40 PM) Ever see "Problem Child"..? Remember the red headed beast..? I thought that was Hotsox chick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 The main reason why this is such a debate on this site is because it is an issue with Harris that goes beyond the stats. For every person here who remembers a bonehead play, there is another who remembers a leadoff hit or a great play. Here is what I fail to get: Guillen and people surrounding the White Sox have clearly soured on Harris. We know this because they traded for Alomar twice, tried to get Vizquel and move Uribe to 2nd, and now have gone all the way to Japan and signed a guy that they haven't seen play in person. That's a pretty clear cut indication of how they feel about Harris. I realize this is an opinion board, but why the reluctance to realize they have totally soured on this guy, it is not about statistics. All of those people who criticize Harris (Melton, Harrelson, DJ, Guillen, Wills, Rooney, more), let's face it, they know more than we do. Another thing ... the Sox took a chance on Pierzynski after checking him out, talking to people, and sitting him down to talk. With all of Pierzynski's "baggage" the fact they've done everything they can to replace Harris speaks loud volumes. It is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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