quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 08:05 PM) Jim -- The problem I have is that the same people who are saying this about Harris are the same people who were talking s*** about Lee after he left, when there was really no reason to do so. And, just from watching Lee over the years -- sure, he had his boneheaded plays on the basepaths, his moments where he'd stare and stare at that homerun ball, but I didn't see anyone go as hard as Lee did into that LF corner (a dangerous area especially with the low fence), as well as going hard into secondbase. To be honest, not many players on the White Sox went as hard as Lee did, period. Yet he's talked about, now that he's gone, that he was lazy and didn't improve at all. That's why I question the source... i don't mean to intrude, you mean on this board or in the media? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 That's why I question the source... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Keith, source(s). All those names I mentioned - Wills, Rooney, Harrelson, DJ, Melton, etc. I didn't see much ripping on Carlos Lee, other than Guillen saying a player who didn't go hard into 2B in that Twins game is no longer on the team. The only thing I saw KW say well before Lee was traded was, "Carlos thinks he's a Gold Glover out there, and we'll just let him think that." Sox employees will rarely rip into a player while he's still here, that's why this big red flag on Harris. This topic has been beaten to death, I'm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Does Harris have an attitude problem? I'm sure that's possible. Did Harris show his attitude problem in this article? No, he actually did the opposite. Saying he would like a chance to COMPETE for the starting job. Was Harris screwed big time last year when it came to his playing time? Yes, there is no doubt about that. Harris caught fire on a few occassions last season, all of which ended with him getting benched. Now, here is the big thing ... Harris was playing good, but was benched because of his attitude. A lot of people here are talking about how Harris was continually getting replaced. That could be because A. the White Sox don't think much of him or B. he has an attitude problem. If it's A. it's bulls*** because why keep him on the team and put him in situations where he can only fail. Better off trading him while he was producing down in AAA. If it's B. it's also bulls*** because if you have a guy who has an attitude problem at AAA, you bring him up and he still has an attitude problem, why keep him? Why jerk him around and make him think he has a job but then pull it away from him? If Harris has been a selfish asshole all this time, why is he still on the team three plus years after he was brought in? Why haven't they gotten rid of him? If a guy is arrogant in AAA, arrogant as a bench player, he will only get worse as as a starter, I would think. And by giving him the starting role and taking it away from him, you are obviously just making him feel like he's getting screwed some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan14 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 You guys are so mean! Willie is right! I agree with him! He should be the one out there everyday at 2nd! I would be upset to if i was in his positon! THe only part i don't like, is him saying that if he can't play, then he wants to leave! That's just not an option! He can't leave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(quickman @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 08:07 PM) i don't mean to intrude, you mean on this board or in the media? The media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(Molto @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 09:23 PM) Does Harris have an attitude problem? I'm sure that's possible. Did Harris show his attitude problem in this article? No, he actually did the opposite. Saying he would like a chance to COMPETE for the starting job. Was Harris screwed big time last year when it came to his playing time? Yes, there is no doubt about that. Harris caught fire on a few occassions last season, all of which ended with him getting benched. Now, here is the big thing ... Harris was playing good, but was benched because of his attitude. A lot of people here are talking about how Harris was continually getting replaced. That could be because A. the White Sox don't think much of him or B. he has an attitude problem. If it's A. it's bulls*** because why keep him on the team and put him in situations where he can only fail. Better off trading him while he was producing down in AAA. If it's B. it's also bulls*** because if you have a guy who has an attitude problem at AAA, you bring him up and he still has an attitude problem, why keep him? Why jerk him around and make him think he has a job but then pull it away from him? If Harris has been a selfish asshole all this time, why is he still on the team three plus years after he was brought in? Why haven't they gotten rid of him? If a guy is arrogant in AAA, arrogant as a bench player, he will only get worse as as a starter, I would think. And by giving him the starting role and taking it away from him, you are obviously just making him feel like he's getting screwed some more. Great post, Mario. Awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(Molto @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 09:23 PM) Does Harris have an attitude problem? I'm sure that's possible. Did Harris show his attitude problem in this article? No, he actually did the opposite. Saying he would like a chance to COMPETE for the starting job. Was Harris screwed big time last year when it came to his playing time? Yes, there is no doubt about that. Harris caught fire on a few occassions last season, all of which ended with him getting benched. Now, here is the big thing ... Harris was playing good, but was benched because of his attitude. A lot of people here are talking about how Harris was continually getting replaced. That could be because A. the White Sox don't think much of him or B. he has an attitude problem. If it's A. it's bulls*** because why keep him on the team and put him in situations where he can only fail. Better off trading him while he was producing down in AAA. If it's B. it's also bulls*** because if you have a guy who has an attitude problem at AAA, you bring him up and he still has an attitude problem, why keep him? Why jerk him around and make him think he has a job but then pull it away from him? If Harris has been a selfish asshole all this time, why is he still on the team three plus years after he was brought in? Why haven't they gotten rid of him? If a guy is arrogant in AAA, arrogant as a bench player, he will only get worse as as a starter, I would think. And by giving him the starting role and taking it away from him, you are obviously just making him feel like he's getting screwed some more. Molto you bring up some well thought out points, but let me take a stab. I believe that the sox thought they saw a talent in harris. Its obvoius they did or else they would not have traded for him. I believe many youngsters need guidance and the sox thought they could guide. I believe they wanted to give OZzie a chance to work with this guy to try to change him around. I believe that by july they figured they couldn't change him or his attitude or whatever the problem was, so they went after alomar again. I believe this extended to this year and he will be gone. If this team was in rebuilding mode they MIGHT keep him another year, just to make sure, but OZzie does not want to rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markp8867 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(chisoxfan14 @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 03:46 PM) You guys are so mean! Willie is right! I agree with him! He should be the one out there everyday at 2nd! I would be upset to if i was in his positon! THe only part i don't like, is him saying that if he can't play, then he wants to leave! That's just not an option! He can't leave! I think Willie is going to kick butt in spring training!! Nice siggy by the way! Go Wolves!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(chisoxfan14 @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 09:46 PM) You guys are so mean! Willie is right! I agree with him! He should be the one out there everyday at 2nd! I would be upset to if i was in his positon! THe only part i don't like, is him saying that if he can't play, then he wants to leave! That's just not an option! He can't leave! Were mean? You sound like a teenager girl argueing with there parents about staying out late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(quickman @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 05:05 PM) Were mean? You sound like a teenager girl argueing with there parents about staying out late. She is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 09:56 PM) The media. Well Willie did not have to do the article with Joe Cowley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 10:05 PM) She is. Well at least my parental instincts are dialed in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(quickman @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 10:02 PM) Molto you bring up some well thought out points, but let me take a stab. I believe that the sox thought they saw a talent in harris. Its obvoius they did or else they would not have traded for him. I believe many youngsters need guidance and the sox thought they could guide. I believe they wanted to give OZzie a chance to work with this guy to try to change him around. I believe that by july they figured they couldn't change him or his attitude or whatever the problem was, so they went after alomar again. I believe this extended to this year and he will be gone. If this team was in rebuilding mode they MIGHT keep him another year, just to make sure, but OZzie does not want to rebuild. That saying goes around so much around here -- the whole, "They traded for Alomar a second time, so clearly they weren't happy with Harris." That really is untrue -- to back up what I was thinking, I googled a search for some articles about the second trade, and here they are: First off, not a direct quote -- but a sentence from the article, which shows that it wasn't just Harris who Kenny was dissappointed in, but also Everett and Crede... Williams said Alomar will be used at second base and designated hitter, and might also play some third base. Here's a quote from the manager himself, unsure of what exactly he was getting in Alomar... "I think Robbie is going to come here as a DH and a second baseman. How much he's going to play here, we're going to see what kind of shape he's in." "I'm not going to guarantee that he's going to play every day until he earns a spot to play every day." So -- saying that the Sox were unhappy with Harris last year -- while a bit true, isn't the total reason behind trading for Alomar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(chisoxfan14 @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 03:46 PM) That's just not an option! He can't leave! ...talk to me in a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(quickman @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 10:08 PM) Well Willie did not have to do the article with Joe Cowley. Ok...? Ah, nevermind -- I screwed up. When you asked me if I was talking about the people on the board or the media, I was mainly referring to the group of people that Jim was bringing up, Guillen, Williams, etc who are now talking bad about Harris... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 10:11 PM) That saying goes around so much around here -- the whole, "They traded for Alomar a second time, so clearly they weren't happy with Harris." That really is untrue -- to back up what I was thinking, I googled a search for some articles about the second trade, and here they are: First off, not a direct quote -- but a sentence from the article, which shows that it wasn't just Harris who Kenny was dissappointed in, but also Everett and Crede... Here's a quote from the manager himself, unsure of what exactly he was getting in Alomar... So -- saying that the Sox were unhappy with Harris last year -- while a bit true, isn't the total reason behind trading for Alomar... Well I never saw him play third. anyway I am still baffled on why there is so much love for a fringe player. The guy will never make it big. its just not there. I know that kids and young people fall in love with players, I was Dick Allens biggest fan right up until his middle finger went up to the whitesox. Focus on the team not the player. The whitesox gods think other players are better for this team, just like the Cubs think sosa is better away from the Cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markp8867 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(quickman @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 04:05 PM) Were mean? You sound like a teenager girl argueing with there parents about staying out late. Well you sound like a bitter 30 year old without a girlfriend and still living with his mom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulokis Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Rotoworld's take on Harris. Willie Harris - 2B - CWS Willie Harris hopes to be traded unless he's given a fair chance to compete for starting job at second base with Tadahito Iguchi this spring. It might be presented as a competition, but something truly surprising would have to happen this spring for Harris to enter the year as the regular second baseman. He needs to get used to the idea of being a utilityman since it's the role he figures to occupy for most of his career. Jan. 27 - 2:58 pm et Source: Daily Southtown Willie better shut up, I know KW wont like this kind of thing and pretty sure if he doesnt stop whining, Willie (in 3rd person reference) will be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 10:12 PM) Ok...? Ah, nevermind -- I screwed up. When you asked me if I was talking about the people on the board or the media, I was mainly referring to the group of people that Jim was bringing up, Guillen, Williams, etc who are now talking bad about Harris... no prob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(markp8867 @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 10:16 PM) Well you sound like a bitter 30 year old without a girlfriend and still living with his mom! Actually your way off, was I with my comment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen, by identifying a player who is not with the program, are just doing their jobs. We, as fans, are aware of certain things that we know did happen. We know they traded for Robbie Alomar to hold 2B thru the second half of 2003. We know they they traded for Juan Uribe to push Harris at 2b as well as be a backup for Valentin. We know they traded for Robbie Alomar to push Willie in 2004. We know they traded for Scott Podsednik because Harris was ineffective in the lead off spot. We know they signed Tadahito Iguchi because they thought they needed an upgrade at 2B. And yet, ... get this .... Willie Harris is in SHOCK at this point. How many proverbial 2x4's do they have to hit this guy with? What all was said to Harris in private, which from what I've read, the assumptions are either "nothing" or "Ozzie's fault he can't lead Harris". There's an old saying ... You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. This is not the Sox. This is all on Willie Harris, his stupity, his arrogance and his ego. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hits that nail on the head.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(markp8867 @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 10:16 PM) Well you sound like a bitter 30 year old without a girlfriend and still living with his mom! Oh by the way welcome to the board! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 QUOTE(markp8867 @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 04:16 PM) Well you sound like a bitter 30 year old without a girlfriend and still living with his mom! Absurd. Complete garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 I split out the crap in here... If you guys want to further orate on Willie vs No-Willie, have at it... But please leave the BS out. Your friendly Admin guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 IMO this team would be much better with Willie off the bench then Timo. It would also give us more flexibility because he gives us a 2B and an OF. However Timo wouldn't be traded unless he got caught pissing in KW cereal and even then it's kind of iffy (because they love him so much for some damn reason). I'd much rather have Willie able to step in and become the new CF if and when Pods or Iguchi fails. Timo should be traded.... Sadly Harris will be traded... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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