DBAHO Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 FWIW here are Hairtson's splits against lefties last season. .316/.376/.388 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 02:09 PM) Leaving OPS out of the equation (because doesn't OPS consider extra base hits as well as OBP & AVG...?), wouldn't you rather have the guy who has a .250 AVG/.360 OBP over the guy with the .285 AVG/.330 OBP? I know who I'd take (again -- leaving OPS out of the equation)... That would be like arguing based on last season's numbers Willie Harris vs. Alex Cora. I'm going with the higher OBP over the higher batting average every single time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralSox Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Pods hands down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulokis Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 QUOTE(AstralSox @ Jan 29, 2005 -> 09:29 PM) Pods hands down. No doubt about it, Pods can wreck some havoc while hitting and running on the bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 29, 2005 -> 09:09 PM) Leaving OPS out of the equation (because doesn't OPS consider extra base hits as well as OBP & AVG...?), wouldn't you rather have the guy who has a .250 AVG/.360 OBP over the guy with the .285 AVG/.330 OBP? I know who I'd take (again -- leaving OPS out of the equation)... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It depends on the speed of the player. I was saying I would take a guy who's .375/.385 over a guy who's .290/.430. Look at Mark Bellhorn's stats from last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 03:42 AM) It depends on the speed of the player. I was saying I would take a guy who's .375/.385 over a guy who's .290/.430. Look at Mark Bellhorn's stats from last season. Wow, I definitely would take the .290/.430 over the .375/.385 any day of the week... That's a huge difference in OBP, and it tells me that the .375 guy is probably having a very lucky season in terms of hitting the ball... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ Jan 29, 2005 -> 09:18 PM) how do i add a pic of a sox player under my user name?im having trouble with this. Click this: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?act=UserCP&CODE=24 upload the pic from your computer or use the link properties of the pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quade36 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 This thread is ridiculous. Why would you compare the two now???? Because Hairston just went to the cubs??? This isn't a competition you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 29, 2005 -> 10:12 PM) Wow, I definitely would take the .290/.430 over the .375/.385 any day of the week... That's a huge difference in OBP, and it tells me that the .375 guy is probably having a very lucky season in terms of hitting the ball... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well that's the thing, I say it says something about player's skill level, not luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I'd rather have Pods as the lead off guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 04:37 AM) Well that's the thing, I say it says something about player's skill level, not luck OK, but that's really not the point. Hitting at a .375 for a whole season is absolutely outrageous, crazy -- something that very, very few guys can do over the course of 500+ AB's. A .430 OBP, however, isn't uncommon. It's definitely something that not many guys achieve each season, but more guys have a .430+ OBP than a .375 AVG. Either way -- the .290/.430 guy is, IMHO, the better choice over the .375/.385 guy, but maybe that's just me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 29, 2005 -> 09:05 PM) OBP was a killer stat for the Sox last season. I think we were the best team in the AL to score with runners in scoring position, but we were the worst team in getting play into scoring position in the 1st place, I may be wrong on that, but it's something like that. If Pods can put up a .340 OBP the same as Willie leading off, but steal 70 bases, he'll be able to score a lot more runs. Hairston is too injury prone, and won't hit well enough to be a productive left fielder, which is most likely going to be his position for the Flubs, because they want won't move Walker, which I find strange, considering he ain't a good fielder anyway. It's amazing how quick this board is to put the label of "injury prone" on a player. Let a guy get one debillitating injury and he's forever "injury prone". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 03:27 AM) It's amazing how quick this board is to put the label of "injury prone" on a player. Let a guy get one debillitating injury and he's forever "injury prone". 122 games in 2002, 58 in 2003, and 86 in 2004. It's not like he was on the bench, he was starter every year in one position or another. I would definitely consider him injury prone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 04:00 AM) 122 games in 2002, 58 in 2003, and 86 in 2004. It's not like he was on the bench, he was starter every year in one position or another. I would definitely consider him injury prone. I should have clarified myself better. Sorry about that. I wasn't particularly talking about Hairston, though I made it look that way. I was making a general observation about how loosely that term was thrown around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 03:09 AM) Leaving OPS out of the equation (because doesn't OPS consider extra base hits as well as OBP & AVG...?), wouldn't you rather have the guy who has a .250 AVG/.360 OBP over the guy with the .285 AVG/.330 OBP? No. All things being equal, I'll take the guy with a higher avg over the guy w/ a higher OBP. That would be saying you'd rather have Alex Cora over Juan Uribe[who both had almost the exact stats you posted]. Uribe had a higher avg, but Cora had a much higher OBP. Is Cora better because he can take more walks? Dustan Mohr also had a very high OBP [like .370] with a lower avg. Yet both he and Cora were non-tendered, and didn't have all that much interest from other teams. If your theory was true, then teams would have been beating down the door for guys with a high OBP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 11:38 AM) No. All things being equal, I'll take the guy with a higher avg over the guy w/ a higher OBP. That would be saying you'd rather have Alex Cora over Juan Uribe[who both had almost the exact stats you posted]. Uribe had a higher avg, but Cora had a much higher OBP. Is Cora better because he can take more walks? Dustan Mohr also had a very high OBP [like .370] with a lower avg. Yet both he and Cora were non-tendered, and didn't have all that much interest from other teams. If your theory was true, then teams would have been beating down the door for guys with a high OBP. Your first theory about me rather having Cora than Uribe is absolutely wrong. I said leaving OPS out of the equation, but OPS is a stat that really shows what Uribe can do. Uribe and Cora are totally different players, so it's really a poor comparison, IMHO. Let me rephrase my statement -- say you have two guys, both have hit 20-25 homers, 70-75 RBI's, and both steal ten bases per year, with a similar CS rate. One has a .305 AVG/.330 OBP, the other has a .285 AVG/ .375 OBP -- I take the latter every time. And the reason Cora didn't draw interest from other teams, IMHO, is because he's only had one good season (2004 -- 2002 was good too, but in limited ABs). His stats have fluctuated throughout his career, so I really can't judge what kind of player he is. He also can't hit left-handers very well, making him a part-time player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain video Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I think we are missing the boat here...... Hairston was a Back-up in Baltimore -- behind Roberts. Who cares what his numbers were! He couldn't beat out Brian Roberts! And if he has so much potential in CF, why exactly didn' they try to get him in the line-up via a position in the outfield? While I like the kid because he was a local HS player -- the Cubs just traded 10 million and their version of the Phillie Phanatic to Baltimore for a back up player and two minor leaguers. This was all about DUMPING SOSA! Hairston is a back-up player -- the Lee trade looks even better now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Stolen bases OVERRATED??? How can you think this? Speed is an extremely intimidating asset for a player to possess. If you don't think so then why is something like this possible? http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...layer_id=334393 (the video from 7/20/04). Guys like Ichiro, Pierre, and Pods force infielders to rush their throws which result in errors. Pitchers have stolen bases in the back of their minds when these guys are on the basepaths. I said it before and I'll say it again: speed is a tremendous asset for a player to possess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 05:20 PM) Your first theory about me rather having Cora than Uribe is absolutely wrong. I said leaving OPS out of the equation, but OPS is a stat that really shows what Uribe can do. Uribe and Cora are totally different players, so it's really a poor comparison, IMHO. Let me rephrase my statement -- say you have two guys, both have hit 20-25 homers, 70-75 RBI's, and both steal ten bases per year, with a similar CS rate. One has a .305 AVG/.330 OBP, the other has a .285 AVG/ .375 OBP -- I take the latter every time. And the reason Cora didn't draw interest from other teams, IMHO, is because he's only had one good season (2004 -- 2002 was good too, but in limited ABs). His stats have fluctuated throughout his career, so I really can't judge what kind of player he is. He also can't hit left-handers very well, making him a part-time player. I said all things being equal, not taking into account OPS or other stats like you said. I was just comparing two guys with similar avg and OBP stats. IMO, batting avg. isn't an overrated stat. Esp. if someone has a high avg over a period of years. Is it luck or skill? Some guys do have career yrs based on getting the "right bounces". But if a guy consistently hits for a high avg, I'll take that over a guy who takes a few more walks. People do forget players who give up AB's in order to move runners over. Pk was a good example of that last yr. I can't remember how many times he hit to the right side when the sox needed to get a guy in scoring position. It shows up stat wise as a lower avg and lower OBP. Yet it helps the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 12:57 AM) I said all things being equal, not taking into account OPS or other stats like you said. I was just comparing two guys with similar avg and OBP stats. IMO, batting avg. isn't an overrated stat. Esp. if someone has a high avg over a period of years. Is it luck or skill? Some guys do have career yrs based on getting the "right bounces". But if a guy consistently hits for a high avg, I'll take that over a guy who takes a few more walks. I wasn't saying that AVG was an overrated stat -- rather, a guy is more likely to consistenly put up a .430 OBP than consistently (and by consistently, I mean year after year) hit .375... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmookie Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 pods hopefully can return to his old form. we have iguchi so we dont need jerry. so pods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 01:13 AM) I wasn't saying that AVG was an overrated stat -- rather, a guy is more likely to consistenly put up a .430 OBP than consistently (and by consistently, I mean year after year) hit .375... You did say you'd take a guy who hit .290 over a guy with a .375 avg, based on his higher OBP. Which no GM or manager in the world would do. Those extra hits would bring in many, many more runs than those walks/ HBP would. It's nice to get on base. But it's much nicer driving those runs in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 01:18 AM) You did say you'd take a guy who hit .290 over a guy with a .375 avg, based on his higher OBP. Which no GM or manager in the world would do. Those extra hits would bring in many, many more runs than those walks/ HBP would. It's nice to get on base. But it's much nicer driving those runs in But the scenario that someone (was it me?) created earlier was that these two players -- your .290/.430 guy and your .375/.385 guy -- had within five homers of each other, and an OPS within .020 points or so of each other. Of course, if the .375 guy is knocking in 30 more runs than the other guy, and hitting 20 more homers, I'll definitely take him. But I put them on an equal plane as far as driving in runs/x-tra base hits/homers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 08:13 PM) But the scenario that someone (was it me?) created earlier was that these two players -- your .290/.430 guy and your .375/.385 guy -- had within five homers of each other, and an OPS within .020 points or so of each other. Of course, if the .375 guy is knocking in 30 more runs than the other guy, and hitting 20 more homers, I'll definitely take him. But I put them on an equal plane as far as driving in runs/x-tra base hits/homers. I have only had one question throughout this thread. Who is the hitter, ozzie? Because no one would have a differential of just .10 of batting average to obp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 08:16 PM) I have only had one question throughout this thread. Who is the hitter, ozzie? Because no one would have a differential of just .10 of batting average to obp. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Pierzynski or Alex Sanchez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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