witesoxfan Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 QUOTE(YoungstownIndians @ Feb 3, 2005 -> 06:48 PM) Same here with Howry and Wickman in the back end of ours. They were 90% lights out for the 70 games they were back there. Like 3 blown Saves. Other than that a few other pesky people in the pen scare me. But we got the heat of 23 year old Jason Davis in there who reaches 101 m/p/h A lot! Our offense too is just jam Packed! Listen to this force! Spot In Lineup.....Average of Last Year. 1. COCO CRISP- .290 2. RONNIE BELLIARD- .285 3. BEN BROUSSARD- .260 AWFUL START... Picked up with some 3 game winning grand slams... 4. VICTOR MARTINEZ- .300 5. TRAVIS HAFNER- .310 6. JUAN GONZALEZ- If Healthy, He can be really good. One of the best at the Jake! 7. CASEY BLAKE- .270 8. AARON BOONE- Last we saw was the homer to Left. 9. JHONNY PERALTA- AAA MVP..... .340 AVG. in AAA Buffalo not that it means much. But Look at Victor Martinez! How many of those guys have had 2 good seasons out of the last 3? Like, 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 A point I want to make about the bullpens is this. I'd definitely put my money on Marte and Shingo making it through a whole season healthy, than Wickman and Howry. Howry can't really log a lot of innings either, and 2004 could have just been the best year's he's ever going to have, or he could be coming into his prime coming back from elbow surgery, we don't know, but his previous ERA probably give me the indication that he'll probably have about a 3.5 to 4 ERA. Bullpen guys are so unreliable from year to year though. We all thought that Marte was going to continue on with the form he showed over 2002-2003, but he didn't carry on with it. And if you looked at Shingo at spring training, there was no way he was going to make the major league roster if he didn't have a guaranteed contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 When you think of a pen you think of durability, consistency, & wins. I think even the most ardent tribe fans would agree that the Sox have the edge over the tribe when you consider that. The tribe won 80 gms last yr because of a late 2nd 1/2 surge. The Sox have been doing that for years. It doesn't mean much. The biggest off-season signing for the tribe is Milwood. If he can manage at least 15 wins the tribe should finish with 85-90 wins. That would be a reasonable ceiling. The twins won 92 gms last yr mostly because of one of the best pens in the majors & Cy Santana. Santana's dominance took the pressure off the team. That & the fact the Sox played 10 gms under 500 in Jul & Aug. It should be weaker D & that should put pressure on both the 4-5 spots in the rotation. Realistically maybe 25 wins at best will come from those spots for the Twins. Meaning Cy Santana, Radke, & Silva need to produce about 50 wins (avg 17) between them to have a shot at 90-95 wins. That's no easy task. The Sox have the best upside potential in the ALC. They have the best rotation in terms of durability, consistency, & quality starts. They probably have the best depth as well if a 1-5 should go down. No matter how you draw it up there is a 70-75 win potential based on the strength of quality & winnable starts alone. Those are games where the starter gives up no more than 3r over 6 or 4r over 7. Those are games the Sox should win. The pen is much improved if you consider it a specialist pen. You've got light's out strength against both RH & LH & good strength against RH. That's really what the addition of Vizcaino & Hermanson provide. It's not a pen built for long relief but rather specific role relief. The Sox can afford that with the expectation that the vast majority of their starts will hand the ball over to the pen in the 6th inning. All of that is expectation not potential. Potential wise both Contreras & Garland could have breakout years. If they both can cut their walks by 30-50% they are capable of winning 15 gms. In the lineup there is the potential that Pods will regain his 300 hitting discipline. If that happens this team could surpass it's 04 run total. All the other changes are pretty simple. As long as the guys produce as good or better than their counterparts in '04 the team should increase it's win totals. What all this means is that if the Sox can remain healthy this team should win 90-95 gms & challenge the Twins. But if the potential finally emerges this team could win 95-100 gms & run away with the division. I don't think you can say that about either the twins or the tribe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Feb 4, 2005 -> 01:17 PM) When you think of a pen you think of durability, consistency, & wins. I think even the most ardent tribe fans would agree that the Sox have the edge over the tribe when you consider that. The tribe won 80 gms last yr because of a late 2nd 1/2 surge. The Sox have been doing that for years. It doesn't mean much. The biggest off-season signing for the tribe is Milwood. If he can manage at least 15 wins the tribe should finish with 85-90 wins. That would be a reasonable ceiling. The twins won 92 gms last yr mostly because of one of the best pens in the majors & Cy Santana. Santana's dominance took the pressure off the team. That & the fact the Sox played 10 gms under 500 in Jul & Aug. It should be weaker D & that should put pressure on both the 4-5 spots in the rotation. Realistically maybe 25 wins at best will come from those spots for the Twins. Meaning Cy Santana, Radke, & Silva need to produce about 50 wins (avg 17) between them to have a shot at 90-95 wins. That's no easy task. The Sox have the best upside potential in the ALC. They have the best rotation in terms of durability, consistency, & quality starts. They probably have the best depth as well if a 1-5 should go down. No matter how you draw it up there is a 70-75 win potential based on the strength of quality & winnable starts alone. Those are games where the starter gives up no more than 3r over 6 or 4r over 7. Those are games the Sox should win. The pen is much improved if you consider it a specialist pen. You've got light's out strength against both RH & LH & good strength against RH. That's really what the addition of Vizcaino & Hermanson provide. It's not a pen built for long relief but rather specific role relief. The Sox can afford that with the expectation that the vast majority of their starts will hand the ball over to the pen in the 6th inning. All of that is expectation not potential. Potential wise both Contreras & Garland could have breakout years. If they both can cut their walks by 30-50% they are capable of winning 15 gms. In the lineup there is the potential that Pods will regain his 300 hitting discipline. If that happens this team could surpass it's 04 run total. All the other changes are pretty simple. As long as the guys produce as good or better than their counterparts in '04 the team should increase it's win totals. What all this means is that if the Sox can remain healthy this team should win 90-95 gms & challenge the Twins. But if the potential finally emerges this team could win 95-100 gms & run away with the division. I don't think you can say that about either the twins or the tribe. I could pick some nits, but in general ... That is one hell of an analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 3, 2005 -> 11:06 PM) How many of those guys have had 2 good seasons out of the last 3? Like, 1? or does two players hitting 300 make your lineup stacked???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungstownIndians Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Our players have been playing offensively awesome since A of there Minor League Lives. They quickly moved up the scale in the #1 Rated Farm System in the MLB..... So say what you want we got more power and better hitters than you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 QUOTE(YoungstownIndians @ Feb 3, 2005 -> 06:14 PM) Bullpen is even now. We both suck! The sox have one of the better and deepest pens in the league, do your hw please. Our rotation is also better. You guys had a great offense last year, however you lost both guys who made that offense tick last year in Lawton and Omar. The Indians won't finish .500 this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungstownIndians Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Bull! If anyone is predicting a below .500 team this year I have seen it on like 2 sites, It is the SOX. They all have the Tribe above .500 at #2 or #3. Omar was older and Lawton SUCKED from the break on dropped some 45 points. Our offense is better. Your rotation is better. Our bullpens are equal. Geeze you guys are bias. I have talked with 3 ppl privately from here who agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 QUOTE(YoungstownIndians @ Feb 4, 2005 -> 06:30 PM) Bull! If anyone is predicting a below .500 team this year I have seen it on like 2 sites, It is the SOX. They all have the Tribe above .500 at #2 or #3. Omar was older and Lawton SUCKED from the break on dropped some 45 points. Our offense is better. Your rotation is better. Our bullpens are equal. Geeze you guys are bias. I have talked with 3 ppl privately from here who agree! This Forum is much more "fair and balanced" if that's what you seek. They are the Fox News of the Chicago White Sox Message board community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 bullpens are equal.....LOL ^^^^^^i think i said that before too. Not fooling anyone with that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 QUOTE(YoungstownIndians @ Feb 4, 2005 -> 06:30 PM) Bull! If anyone is predicting a below .500 team this year I have seen it on like 2 sites, It is the SOX. They all have the Tribe above .500 at #2 or #3. Omar was older and Lawton SUCKED from the break on dropped some 45 points. Our offense is better. Your rotation is better. Our bullpens are equal. Geeze you guys are bias. I have talked with 3 ppl privately from here who agree! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Your offense is not better. Magglio and Frank missed a combined 198 games last season and the Sox were still 3rd in the league in runs scored. You guys had career years from a handful of guys last year yet you assholes still couldn't finish above .500. What was Sabathia's ERA in the second half? What was Cliff Lee's ERA in the second half? What was Belliard's BA in the second half? How well did Aaron Boone do when he first came over to the AL 1 1/2 years ago? Do us a favor, go drive up to that s***hole city known as Cleveland, and dive headfirst into a shallow lake that is engulfed in flames. :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Feb 4, 2005 -> 06:38 PM) Your offense is not better. Magglio and Frank missed a combined 198 games last season and the Sox were still 3rd in the league in runs scored. You guys had career years from a handful of guys last year yet you assholes still couldn't finish above .500. What was Sabathia's ERA in the second half? What was Cliff Lee's ERA in the second half? What was Belliard's BA in the second half? How well did Aaron Boone do when he first came over to the AL 1 1/2 years ago? Do us a favor, go drive up to that s***hole city known as Cleveland, and dive headfirst into a shallow lake that is engulfed in flames. :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungstownIndians Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 And your offense is? Haha! Sorry you're way wrong there you bias people! By the way Youngstown=OHIO=Bush Victory! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 QUOTE(YoungstownIndians @ Feb 4, 2005 -> 09:34 PM) And your offense is? Haha! Sorry you're way wrong there you bias people! By the way Youngstown=OHIO=Bush Victory! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Is what? The Sox scored the third most runs in the league with Frank and Maggs missing 198 combined games. I don't know how many games Frank will be missing this year, but Dye is replacing Borchard/Perez/Gload, Uribe is replacing Valentin, AJ is replacing Olivo/Alomar/Burke/Davis, and Crede can't get any worse than the way he played last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 QUOTE(YoungstownIndians @ Feb 5, 2005 -> 12:30 AM) Geeze you guys are bias. I have talked with 3 ppl privately from here who agree! Are you serious? Are you a f***ing moron? I'm sorry, but look at the name of the website. It's Soxtalk -- what the f*** do you expect? f***ing mercy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Feb 4, 2005 -> 09:39 PM) Is what? The Sox scored the third most runs in the league with Frank and Maggs missing 198 combined games. I don't know how many games Frank will be missing this year, but Dye is replacing Borchard/Perez/Gload, Uribe is replacing Valentin, AJ is replacing Olivo/Alomar/Burke/Davis, and Crede can't get any worse than the way he played last season. Plus we added a real top of the order and more overall balance to the lineup which should help provide some consistancy. Like I've said before I'd take this offense over the one we've had in past years. Add that to a good rotation and a great bullpen and this is one hell of a team imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungstownIndians Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Who the hell cares if they missed a combined 198 games! THERE IS 162 GAMES PLAYED IN A YEAR! *=TRIBE -=SOX Last Year. THINGS Higher than you guys... *BATTING AVAERAGE: .276 -YOU GUYS HAVE 8 MORE RUNS *HITS: 1565 *DOUBLES: 345 *TRIPLES- 29 -YOU GUYS HAVE MORE HOMERS and 3 MORE RBI'S * On Base %- .351 Homes= LOST LEE enough Said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 and yet we were still able to put up those numbers with chumps like Valentin, Borchard, Davis, and Crede playing everyday. We also finished above you in the standings. We had an injury plagued season with our #3 and #4 hitters, the Indians have breakout seasons from 5 players, and yet the Sox still finish above the Tribe in the standings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 QUOTE(YoungstownIndians @ Feb 4, 2005 -> 09:51 PM) Homes= LOST LEE enough Said. Who lost their homes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungstownIndians Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 homers haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 QUOTE(YoungstownIndians @ Feb 4, 2005 -> 10:23 PM) homers haha <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We were tied for first in the MLB in 2004. We hit 242, what f***ing difference will it make if we "only" hit 215-225 this season? We improved our bullpen, starting rotation, speed and defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Feb 4, 2005 -> 10:26 PM) We were tied for first in the MLB in 2004. We hit 242, what f***ing difference will it make if we "only" hit 215-225 this season? We improved our bullpen, starting rotation, speed and defense. I wonder how many more we would have hit if we had both ordonez and thomas healthy for the secod half of last year. Could probally add at least another 15-20 more homeruns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 The White Sox worst hitter offensively could be the lead-off hitter(who won't be leading off if he is the worst hitter). Meanwhile, the Indians have so many guys who did just have their first good year, and as an Indian fan, you should be familiar with the sophomore slump, afterall, the greatest sophomore slump of all time, Joe Charboneau, did do his business in Cleveland. The Indians are gonna be boom or bust...they are either going to win 90 games, and possibly win the division, or they are going to be a sub-.500 team, and will likely be selling at the deadline. ***STAT OF THE NIGHT*** Cliff Lee, Post-ASB - 5-7 7.91 ERA 1.65 WHIP(best.half.evar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungstownIndians Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 I guarentee the Indians will finish above the SOX. I was dead on the last TWO {2} YEARS! We will. You gotta watch out for the Tigers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoArow33 Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 QUOTE(YoungstownIndians @ Feb 5, 2005 -> 01:40 PM) I guarentee the Indians will finish above the SOX. I was dead on the last TWO {2} YEARS! We will. You gotta watch out for the Tigers! You really have to shut the f*** up and leave. Because you're an annoying little prick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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